Gallup Poll: Black Americans and Police

[Gromdor]

10 hours ago, Jerry Gallo said:

You had the opportunity to arrive here on your first reply. Don't think it's that big an ask to keep things focused on what is in posts and links without adding irrelevance to try and be clever. So, back to the root...leftists wishing to show the majority of criminals greater deferrence than they show the majority of police. 

I say, don't like the appearance of how most cops police, go become one on an overnight beat in an inner city environment for a month. Might learn some perspective that's obviously lacking.

If anything, I would say my time I the military is what gives me the perspective that I think you perhaps lack.  I took an oath for a cause.  Police officers these days.... it seems not so much.  Serve and protect?  I'm not seeing it.

I'd like to hear your explanation for the 30% difference as someone who claims to have the perspective of an overnight beat inner city cop.

 

 

[Gromdor]

10 hours ago, Michelle said:

Cops have the option of giving a warning or a citation for minor offences. I'm fairly certain black cops, or any other ethnic group, use the "friends and family" policy like any other cop. The more polite you are the more likely you are to just get a warning regardless of ethnicity. If saying sir, ma'am or officer during the encounter saves me a hundred bucks I'll gladly do it.

Is bending over and showing cleavage how Tennessee women say "Sir, ma'am, or officer"?

On 8/6/2020 at 8:19 PM, Michelle said:

I had just turned fifty when I was disrespected by a cop for the first time. I was pulled over for an expired tag by one day. I got out of the car and he was already writing the ticket. I bent waaay over, to get my driver's license and registration out of my purse in the passenger seat. He didn't even look and still gave me the ticket. 

But hey, a hundred bucks is a hundred bucks. 

[Jerry Gallo]

5 hours ago, Gromdor said:

If anything, I would say my time I the military is what gives me the perspective that I think you perhaps lack.  I took an oath for a cause.  Police officers these days.... it seems not so much.  Serve and protect?  I'm not seeing it.

For clarity, I want to fully acknowledge having zero personal experience in military or LE, all knowledge comes from friends, family, and comments of both I've read online. The amount of which is likely irrelevant to some and acceptable to others. With that said, I'd suggest that what you are perceiving with LE is the same thing I perceive in our general culture...the younger the force becomes, the less they appear to give a damn. To me, that is a generational thing. Majority of kids didn't mind affection with parents in our youth, today most seem to abhor it. Most kids don't want to talk about deep stuff today, prefer to internalize it. Most kids today are confounding, much more brutal in their humor towards taboo items, but much less likely to overreact to it. Rather than these kids being centered, they seem more prone to highs and lows...confident or depressed, braggarts or their worthless, matter of fact or withdrawn. Our kids today are a lot more agnostic with feelings than we ever were. So, as the force declines in average age, you would expect these things to transfer over to LE and the military. 

I was always amazed at how nurses in pediatric cancer wards can shut off the amount of emotion they do. I'm certain they care, but if they get invested as a parent might, they'd break down mentally rather quickly. I think most police are the same. They don't see black or white as much as they see violators and law abiding, haves and have nots, not very bright and pretty smart. A lot depends on environment, both the one they grew up in and the one they are policing. And they lack life experience. Many assume race, when it is more likely other factors. In suburbia, a black honors student caught with weed gets treated better than the white truant. Because the latter is more likely to be a habitual pain in the ass for the cop. The latter is less likely to make something of themselves and more likely to bring down those around them. In urban communities, those roles rarely exist. Most kids regardless of race are likely poor, not good students and frequently in positions of trouble. Do cops check HS transcripts...of course not. But don't we all profile in some way when we interact and form an instinct of someone? I know I do...my ignore list differentiates between people I think are capable of intellectual discussion worthy of my time and those who are not. Don't know if they are men or women, black or white, straight or not. Only factor that's obvious is ideology. I detest most liberals based on their behavior, presentation and method of reasoning. I can admit that. But they all get multiple chances. I think you'd find you analyzed things similarly in the military if you served in areas of hostility - differentiated between those stuck in a bad situation versus those who wanted you dead. I think cops are that way. It's human nature.

5 hours ago, Gromdor said:

If anything, I would say my time I the military is what gives me the perspective that I think you perhaps lack.  I took an oath for a cause.  Police officers these days.... it seems not so much.  Serve and protect?  I'm not seeing it.

I'd like to hear your explanation for the 30% difference as someone who claims to have the perspective of an overnight beat inner city cop.

I'm confused a bit by the 30% number. Are we talking about the 38% difference in "Very Confident" that police will treat people with courtesy and respect? Honestly not taking you to task over your number in a partisan shot manner, just want to make sure I am addressing the number you are referring to. So, I'll answer as if that is what you are asking.

I love Pew polling, fascinated by it. What I have found though is that you can't take a single question and consider it in a vacuum if you want to conclude anything from it. So, when you consider the answers of black people on the other questions and then consider confidence in context with those other questions, a pattern appears to emerge. Of course, it would be nice if Pew could run out there questions a little more specifically to see who answers each question, but I think it's safe to conclude what it would look like. For example...

19% of blacks would like to see police less in their areas. To me, this can only mean two things. They are criminals who want to be left to their own devices or they feel police are bad. Of those who are very confident in LE, 7% still want to see less of them. Why? 18% who are not at all confident want to see more of LE. Odd!

32% see police often/very often in their area, yet 82% are not Very Confident. So, we know there are a lot of blacks who base their confidence on factors other than frequent personal experience. This could be what they've heard from the 32%, could be the narrative they've heard from media and activists, or perhaps they were raised to not trust the police. I can't endorse a theory that racism in LE or a lack of commitment to serve and protect blacks like other races is proven by the lack of confidence in polling. Not knowing what I know, not knowing human nature like I do. I think if you were to poll based on age, criminal history, and tenure in the community, the data would bear out even more on the issue. Most interactions with police are age 16-24 per BJS stats, who in that age group has the maturity to answer a poll question as fairly as a law-abiding lifelong citizen?

My opinion is, you tell someone they are a victim of racism often enough from an early age, they start to believe it. From there, it leads to everyone's fault but mine. When someone is caught with a bag of heroin in their pocket..."that's not mine" tells us their crime is not their fault. When pulled over for a license plate bulb burned out, find they have felony amounts of meth, "you pulled me over because I am black" is supposed to be given greater weight than "I was ridin' dirty and got caught". I see more of this with Hispanics on Hwy 70, nearly every day, LE has someone face down on the pavement, sometimes at gunpoint. Is this because LE is biased towards Hispanics or it is because Hwy 70 is where a lot of drugs are transported from the border to northern cities. If LE guilty of racial profiling any Latino looking person driving a truck or are they simple following instinct based on training and experience? At any rate, criminals with warrants, guns and drugs obviously don't want to be caught. So clearly, they don't want LE around. And if presenting lack of confidence elicits them a little more freedom, what else would they say?

Clearly, some will choose to think that all the numbers indicate systemic racism. I will say that in some instances, at an individual level, race may play a part. But based on what I hear from most urban LE, the socioeconomic factors, generational issues, the inexperience and low pay of LE  and the media's portrayal of life there are all significantly greater contributors to unrest (or the appearance of unrest) than color of skin. Going back to those nurses...I know two who work in urban hospitals who see less than 1% of white patients. If they are agnostic about death the same as the ones who work in white suburbia, should they be considered more racist since all the victims are black? Of course not. But LE sure seems to.

Also, one last issue with polling. Much of it relies on a notion that the cop is white. While we know a lot are, a significant number are not. That also tends to nullify the racial component.

Finally, I've reread this response and I believe there is nothing snarky or disrespectful in it. I've attempted to answer your questions courteously and honestly. I hope that means you'd vote at least somewhat confident in me, even as you may also opt to see less of me.

 

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

If anything, I would say my time I the military is what gives me the perspective that I think you perhaps lack.  I took an oath for a cause.  Police officers these days.... it seems not so much.  Serve and protect?  I'm not seeing it.

I'd like to hear your explanation for the 30% difference as someone who claims to have the perspective of an overnight beat inner city cop.

 

 

To Serve and protect is just a motto. The SCOTUS has ruled that they do not have a Constitutional duty to protect. The police only have the responsibility to protect those in custody.

[Michelle]

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Is bending over and showing cleavage how Tennessee women say "Sir, ma'am, or officer"?

But hey, a hundred bucks is a hundred bucks. 

It's a women thing, period. It starts as babies when we learn how easily we can wrap our daddy around our little fingers. Yes, I will smile and bat my eyelashes to get a little extra consideration.