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OverSword

US Angers China with Taiwan Visit

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OverSword
Quote

 

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar is the highest-ranking US politician to hold meetings on the island for decades.

Taiwan is, to all intents and purposes, an independent state, but China regards it as a breakaway province.

China urged the US to respect what it called its “one China” principle.

“China firmly opposes any official interactions between the US and Taiwan,” a foreign ministry spokesman said when the visit was announced last week.

“We urge the US… not to send any wrong signals to ‘Taiwan independence’ elements to avoid severe damage to China-US relations.”

Mr Azar, who arrived on the island a day before meeting President Tsai Ing-wen, said there were “three overarching themes” for the visit.

“The first is to recognise Taiwan as an open and democratic society, executing a highly successful and transparent Covid-19 response,” he said.

“The second is to reaffirm Taiwan as a long partner and friend of the United States.

 

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spartan max2

About ****ing time :clap:.

Tiawan is an independent nation. They have made it clear time and time again. Enough of the CCP's imperialistic BS. 

 

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1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

About ****ing time :clap:.

Tiawan is an independent nation. They have made it clear time and time again. Enough of the CCP's imperialistic BS. 

 

I'd begin open talks designed to approve intermediate range nukes on the island.  Xi has lost his damned mind and thinks he can roll with the big boys already.  

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OverSword

This one China madness needs to end.  Hong Kong is the perfect example of why.  Multiply it by how much more populous Taiwan is than Hong Kong and you can imagine how much worse it would be once the bully country comes in and takes over.

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Hugh Mungus

Taiwan is where the legitimate government of China sits. They fled when the commies took over and starved the country. 

I can only hope that one day they can return democracy to the mainland

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spartan max2
2 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Taiwan is where the legitimate government of China sits. They fled when the commies took over and starved the country. 

I can only hope that one day they can return democracy to the mainland

Ohhh, now those are truly fighting words :devil: lol.

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OverSword
8 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Taiwan is where the legitimate government of China sits. They fled when the commies took over and starved the country. 

I can only hope that one day they can return democracy to the mainland

Truth.

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spartan max2
1 hour ago, and then said:

I'd begin open talks designed to approve intermediate range nukes on the island.  Xi has lost his damned mind and thinks he can roll with the big boys already.  

Idk. I understand the idea is to act as a deterrent to protect Tiawan from being invaded.

But idk if that's the best. It's the same logic of way the USSR gave nukes to Cuba which led to the middle crisis.

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Golden Duck
4 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Taiwan is where the legitimate government of China sits. They fled when the commies took over and starved the country. 

I can only hope that one day they can return democracy to the mainland

So The West just declares some "time immemorial" and ignore:

  • The ROC overthrew the Qing Dynasty;
  • Qing ceded Taiwan to Japan.

History happened, and people played what was in front of them.

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third_eye

Maybe Trump can ban Taiwan unless China sells it to Washington 

~

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5 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Idk. I understand the idea is to act as a deterrent to protect Tiawan from being invaded.

But idk if that's the best. It's the same logic of way the USSR gave nukes to Cuba which led to the middle crisis.

The leadership in Taiwan need not have launch authority.  Xi seems to think he and the boys in the CCP are able to roll with the U.S. and he's badly mistaken.  The CCP is out of control and delusional.  It's time to snatch a kink in their collective asses. 

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and then
2 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

History happened, and people played what was in front of them.

And they still ARE playing what's in front of them :tu:

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

While I certainly beleive that the US should protect Taiwans Sovereignty, a War with China is not be something anyone should want to see. The results of such a conflict would be far reaching and would most likely effect the United States. Can anyone see what a War with China would look like? Well it will not be fought on land, most likely it would start as a Naval Battle it would sooner or late end up involving a Nuclear Exchange. 

Which would end up being a World Conflict so then where does it end. With the US involved fighting China the Terrorists would most likely rise up and create conflict across the Middle East. Russia would most likely attempt to take back Eastern Europe, since NATO would be occupied else where. So personally I think War with China would not be to our bennifit, because the cost to the entire world in life's and destruction would be worst than we have ever seen before.

Last, for those who think China would be a push over you really are not looking at the big picture, this is not some joke that should be taken lightly, it could end life as we know it.

Oh and by the way, arming Taiwan with Nuclear weapons is not the answer it would start World War III, China and Russia would never allow it.

JIMO

Edited by Manwon Lender
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spartan max2
5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

While I certainly beleive that the US should protect Taiwans Sovereignty, a War with China is not be something anyone should want to see. The results of such a conflict would be far reaching and would most likely effect the United States. Can anyone see what a War with China would look like? Well it will not be fought on land, most likely it would start as a Naval Battle it would sooner or late end up involving a Nuclear Exchange. 

Which would end up being a World Conflict so then where does it end. With the US involved fighting China the Terrorists would most likely rise up and create conflict across the Middle East. Russia would most likely attempt to take back Eastern Europe, since NATO would be occupied else where. So personally I think War with China would not be to our bennifit, because the cost to the entire world in life's and destruction would be worst than we have ever seen before.

Last, for those who think China would be a push over you really are not looking at the big picture, this is not some joke that should be taken lightly, it could end life as we know it.

Oh and by the way, arming Taiwan with Nuclear weapons is not the answer it would start World War III, China and Russia would never allow it.

JIMO

I don't think anyone is advocating for WW3.

I think we should have military in Taiwan as a deterrent though. 

I don't think China would have any interest in a starting WW3 either. Mutually assured destruction and all that.

But who knows, it's only Poland after all :lol: (WW2 joke)

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third_eye
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

While I certainly beleive that the US should protect Taiwans Sovereignty, a War with China is not be something anyone should want to see.

Don't worry about lawlessness in China, best the US worry about the corruption within the administration. 

In China, with the law on your side, nobody can touch you, not even American corruption. 

Quote
Guangzhou nail house from www.flickr.com
 
Aerial view of the two "nail houses" encircled by an overpass connecting the Zhoutouzui Tunnel in Guangzhou city, south China's ...
 
~
3 days ago · ... between two lanes of the newly opened Haizhuyong Bridge in Guangzhou. ... The building is known as a “ nail house” — or “dingzihu” in Mandarin ...
 
~
 
4 days ago · ... to budge and is now wedged between two wings of the new highway in Guangzhou. ... This building is known as a 'nail house' because the owner(s) reject ...
 
The demolition of a nail house at a construction site in Guangzhou, ... that are left standing as development progresses around them are called “nail houses.”.
 
4 days ago · The building is the latest example of Chinese 'nail houses' ( Pictures: Guangzhou Daily/Weibo). Share this  ...
 
View A nail house remains on a construction site in Gongqin village, Yichang city, in central China's Hubei province, April 8, 2013. Two nail houses were .

~

Maybe it's because the CCP doesn't play golf and has no need for golf resorts ... 

~

Edited by third_eye
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Manwon Lender
29 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't think anyone is advocating for WW3.

I think we should have military in Taiwan as a deterrent though. 

I don't think China would have any interest in a starting WW3 either. Mutually assured destruction and all that.

But who knows, it's only Poland after all :lol: (WW2 joke)

No one ever advocates a War, but if the US puts Military in Taiwan or Nuclear Weapons there as some have suggested it will cause a War. I don't think any country wants a Nuclear War, and Wars never start out that way. A Nuclear exchange is something that occurs when a Nation feels it has nothing to lose. Currently we have an agreement with China that we would never except the Sovereignty of Taiwan, supply them weapons, or put US Soldiers there. This agreement is the only thing stopping China from making aggressive actions against Taiwan. I thinks it best to let sleeping giants lay, unless China starts aggression against Taiwan.

JIMO

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third_eye
1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Currently we have an agreement with China that we would never except the Sovereignty of Taiwan, supply them weapons, or put US Soldiers there

Liars and acting in bad faith... 

Quote
4 days ago · The United States broke off formal diplomatic ties with Taiwan in 1979 as it began cultivating a closer relationship with Beijing, but it has continued to sell weapons to the country and continues to be its biggest arms supplier.

~

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spartan max2
2 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Liars and acting in bad faith... 

~

Do you believe the 23 million Taiwanese people should forcefully become part of China, despite their clear autonomy and choice not to be?

Tell your view plainly. 

As for the treaty you mention. It was always a bad treaty to appease China despite the fact the entire world knows Taiwan is its own nation. It's really silly and ridiculous.

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Manwon Lender
1 minute ago, third_eye said:

Liars and acting in bad faith... 

~

I can't argue that fact, and like I have said it not a good thing, the US doesn't need a War with China. In my opinion anyone who thinks we do is foolish and nothing else, but I also think both sides should leave Taiwan alone.

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Manwon Lender
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Do you believe the 23 million Taiwanese people should forcefully become part of China, despite their clear autonomy and choice not to be?

Tell your view plainly. 

As for the treaty you mention. It was always a bad treaty to appease China despite the fact the entire world knows Taiwan is its own nation. It's really silly and ridiculous.

The treaty you speak about is the only thing that has kept Taiwan free all these years, so I don't think something that has kept them free is silly and rediculous at all. Now the US us breaking the treaty by supplying them with weapons and visits, so what ever happens it will be on our heads.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The treaty you speak about is the only thing that has kept Taiwan free all these years, so I don't think something that has kept them free is silly and rediculous at all. Now the US us breaking the treaty by supplying them with weapons and visits, so what ever happens it will be on our heads.

I don't see how that claim can be made? Please elaborate.

And if China invades a sovereign people then that's on their hands. I don't see how someone could morally excuse the aggresser and invader.

Edited by spartan max2
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third_eye
33 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

As for the treaty you mention. It was always a bad treaty to appease China despite the fact the entire world knows Taiwan is its own nation. It's really silly and ridiculous.

Ridiculous indeed... 

Quote

This leads to one of the many absurdities that affect Taiwan: Its 23 million citizens can travel the world on Taiwanese passports—emblazoned with Republic of China (Taiwan)—which are among the most widely accepted documents on the planet, but they cannot enter UN buildings with them. (This is despite the fact that in 1942, the Republic of China was among the first countries to sign the United Nations Declaration.) Washington does not recognize the Republic of China, yet Taiwan is the U.S.’s 11th-largest trading partner, the world’s 22nd-largest economy, and a crucial link in Silicon Valley’s supply chain.

~

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/07/taiwans-status-geopolitical-absurdity/593371/

:lol:

~

28 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't see how that claim can be made? Please elaborate.

And if China invades a sovereign people then that's on their hands. I don't see how someone could morally excuse the aggresser and invader.

Invader is exactly right.. no excuses, death to all imperialists 

Quote
6 Jul 2020 · China has increasingly sought to cast the South China Sea ... U.S. Navy has responded by sailing vessels through those ...

~

:lol:

~

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Manwon Lender
20 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't see how that claim can be made? Please elaborate.

And if China invades a sovereign people then that's on their hands. I don't see how someone could morally excuse the aggresser and invader.

First of all China has not  invaded or even attempt to invade Taiwan. Please don't put words in my mouth I never said we should excuse any aggressor or invader in fact if that happens the US will defend Taiwan according to Taiwan Relations Act.

While the original treaty expired in 1980, it is still viewed as being in force.

You don't see how the claim that the treaty and the Taiwan Relations Act has kept Taiwan free, then what has kept them free?

Taiwan Relations Act

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

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third_eye
7 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You don't see how the claim that the treaty and the Taiwan Relations Act has kept Taiwan free, then what has kept them free?

Taiwan remains free because they have not declared "independence"

Quote

Military provisionsEdit

The Taiwan Relations Act does not guarantee the USA will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress. The act states that "the United States will make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capabilities". However, the decision about the nature and quantity of defense services that America will provide to Taiwan is to be determined by the President and Congress. America's policy has been called "strategic ambiguity" and it is designed to dissuade Taiwan from a unilateral declaration of independence, and to dissuade the PRC from unilaterally unifying Taiwan with the PRC.

Taiwan Relations Act

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

~

A big ambiguous 'ambiguity' at best... 

:lol:

~

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Manwon Lender
14 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Taiwan remains free because they have not declared "independence"

Taiwan Relations Act

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

~

A big ambiguous 'ambiguity' at best... 

:lol:

~

I missed that, but your right it is all based upon Taiwan not declaring independence, thanks for setting me straight.

Take care 

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