Roman coin found in Montana?

[Carnoferox]

I was visiting the Old Trail Museum in Choteau, Montana today when this artifact caught my eye. Allegedly this Roman bronze coin was found in a Native American teepee ring at the base of Ear Mountain in 1940. It was supposedly confirmed as dating to the reign of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD) by T.T. Belote of the Smithsonian. The only information I could find about it was the museum signage itself and a 1941 newspaper article from the Choteau Acantha. I was surprised that I'd never heard of it before and that it isn't a more well-known OOPART. Of course I doubt that it's evidence for Pre-Columbian Roman contact; more likely it was brought over by the Spanish and traded up from Mexico along the Old North Trail. I'm far from an expert on Roman coins or Montana history though so I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts.

http://montananewspapers.org/lccn/sn85053032/1941-02-20/ed-1/seq-1/#date1=1873&city=Choteau&rows=20&words=coin+Roman&searchType=basic&sequence=0&index=1&date2=2018&proxtext=roman+coin&page=1

Edited August 13, 2020 by Carnoferox

[jaylemurph]

Roman coins turn up all over the place. Rather the same way humans do.

Probably some link between those two things. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Hankenhunter]

They've been found in Canada.

I was wrong as carnoferox pointed out

Edited August 13, 2020 by Hankenhunter

[Carnoferox]

1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

They've been found in canada also. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.express.co.uk/news/history/628827/ANCIENT-ROMANS-America-eerie-discovery-change-history%23:~:text%3DThey%20say%20the%20find%20will,on%20an%20island%20in%20Canada.&ved=2ahUKEwiw3_L0o5frAhX7HzQIHbpPA1cQFjABegQICxAH&usg=AOvVaw0xHvIdFf6oy4OypGgcIbZ3

That was confirmed to be a hoax, Andy White has documented the whole "Swordgate" incident.

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/fake-hercules-swords.html

Edited August 13, 2020 by Carnoferox

[Hankenhunter]

1 minute ago, Carnoferox said:

That was confirmed to be a hoax, Andy White has documented the whole "Swordgate" incident.

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/fake-hercules-swords.html

Thank you for the correction. Post withdrawn.

[Hankenhunter]

1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

Thank you for the correction. Post withdrawn with my apologies. 

I should just quit while I'm behind.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Hankenhunter

[jaylemurph]

How exactly is it an OOPART? It's not like it's millions of years old, so that there's no conceivable explanation, like if it were found in a lump of rock or something.

It's not a historical mystery, it's a transportation issue.

--Jaylemurph

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Roman coins turn up all over the place. Rather the same way humans do.

Probably some link between those two things. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Carnoferox]

32 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

How exactly is it an OOPART? It's not like it's millions of years old, so that there's no conceivable explanation, like if it were found in a lump of rock or something.

It's not a historical mystery, it's a transportation issue.

--Jaylemurph

No one would really expect to find a Roman coin in a Native American teepee circle in Montana, I'd say that's pretty "out of place". There are still plausible explanations for how it ended up there but it's unexpected nonetheless.

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, Carnoferox said:

No one would really expect to find a Roman coin in a Native American teepee circle in Montana, I'd say that's pretty "out of place". There are still plausible explanations for how it ended up there but it's unexpected nonetheless.

I agree it unexpected but there is little doubt that was brought over possible by the Spanish, the French, or even the British. But the real problem is there is no way to determine when the coin was brought to that location, it could have been planted there as a hoax. I think this is one of those situations where we will never know how it really occurred. But like you have said it is unexpected and something to think about.

Thanks for sharing.

[Carnoferox]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree it unexpected but there is little doubt that was brought over possible by the Spanish, the French, or even the British. But the real problem is there is no way to determine when the coin was brought to that location, it could have been planted there as a hoax. I think this is one of those situations where we will never know how it really occurred. But like you have said it is unexpected and something to think about.

Thanks for sharing.

Yes, the coin could've been planted too. Unfortunately there's not more information available for this find.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, Carnoferox said:

Yes, the coin could've been planted too. Unfortunately there's not more information available for this find.

I do also, it would be nice to find out how it really got there. But may be not knowing is kind of cool anyway, that way we can choose to believe what we want too, that's why I like mysteries like this.

[jethrofloyd]

On the Pawn Stars Roman Conis showed up several times:

 

 

 

 

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

Yes, the coin could've been planted too. Unfortunately there's not more information available for this find.

Got salt? 

Or a Spanish conquistador or priest. 

[RoofGardener]

Curious how no  Native American artifacts have been found in old Roman camps ? 

[Piney]

25 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Curious how no  Native American artifacts have been found in old Roman camps ? 

Or in Roman villas owned by wealthy traders. 

[HandsomeGorilla]

What sort of metal is it? I'm assuming bronze. It could very well have been used as barter at a much later date. The date of second century doesn't necessarily mean it was put there then. Kind of a long shot I know. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by HandsomeGorilla

[RoofGardener]

It would have been brought across by European settlers. That means that it could not have been in the USA before1492 (and more likely way after 1650). 

Personally, I suspect it was traded to the Native Americans around 1680. Probably on a Thursday, around 15:00 ? 

[lightly]

I'd guess lost and found.....or taken?

[Coyote Speaks]

That's an odd little mystery. 1940 is a really late date to be finding that sort of thing, though. I suppose it's more of a "genuine" find since it wasn't being used for any sort of agenda but rather was just... discovered. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume it was used for trade or barter between Europeans and the NA Nation in question rather than proof of Roman Pre-Columbian contact with the US. Especially since the spot it was found was so thoroughly landlocked. 

[Carnoferox]

42 minutes ago, Coyote Speaks said:

That's an odd little mystery. 1940 is a really late date to be finding that sort of thing, though. I suppose it's more of a "genuine" find since it wasn't being used for any sort of agenda but rather was just... discovered. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume it was used for trade or barter between Europeans and the NA Nation in question rather than proof of Roman Pre-Columbian contact with the US. Especially since the spot it was found was so thoroughly landlocked. 

That’s what makes me think it’s more likely a genuine find than a hoax. It was never used to garner publicity and has sat in obscurity in a small town museum for 80 years. I agree that it was probably traded or taken by Native Americans from Europeans.

[Kenemet]

12 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

No one would really expect to find a Roman coin in a Native American teepee circle in Montana, I'd say that's pretty "out of place". There are still plausible explanations for how it ended up there but it's unexpected nonetheless.

It was from 1940.

There are and were coin collectors long before that.  I have some old Roman coins and if I dropped one, it would not be proof of ancient Romans in Texas.  I also have an authentic Egyptian ushabti from the reign of Psamtik I.  This doesn't prove Egyptians in Texas.

[Tatetopa]

The most famous (or infamous) quote from Sheridan concerning Texas came just after the Civil War had ended. Asked his opinion of Texas, Sheridan replied, "If I owned Texas and all hell, I'd rent out Texas and live in hell." 

 

Maybe house hunting Romans and Egyptians made a brief visit and decided they were better off in their old place.

[Carnoferox]

15 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

It was from 1940.

There are and were coin collectors long before that.  I have some old Roman coins and if I dropped one, it would not be proof of ancient Romans in Texas.  I also have an authentic Egyptian ushabti from the reign of Psamtik I.  This doesn't prove Egyptians in Texas.

This area wasn’t well traveled back in the day (and still isn’t) so it’d be one hell of a coincidence if a coin collector just happened to drop it in a teepee circle there. A hoax would be even more likely than that explanation.

[Kenemet]

Just now, Carnoferox said:

This area wasn’t well traveled back in the day (and still isn’t) so it’d be one hell of a coincidence if a coin collector just happened to drop it in a teepee circle there. A hoax would be even more likely than that explanation.

Hoax is possible, but so is someone offering a 'worthless" coin in trade as trade goods.