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Still Waters

Israel and UAE strike historic deal

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and then
On 8/13/2020 at 12:40 PM, odas said:

For what? So that Israel can pull the anexion card anytime they want? So that UAE can get more money to build skyscrapers? To buy their 100ts mercedes while other muslims get bombed, killed, raped...while people still starve of hunger in the world? ( No, it is not just the Christian duty to feed starving people in the world).

As to the bolded - I agree with you and I think all religious faiths should make an effort to feed and comfort those who have nothing.

I think you may find that your opinion on behalf of the Palestinians who are enraged at this attempt at peace between Israel and the UAE, is not so widely shared:

http://mubasher.aljazeera.net/news/بعد-تطبيع-الإمارات-وسيم-يوسف-ينتقد-الفلسطينيين-اليهود-أشرف-منكم

I got this through another source that isn't well received here so I dug deeper to see if a more "reputable" source was available.  Obviously, this is just coming from SOME Arab nations like S.A. and the UAE but I was still surprised that common people in those countries would be willing to openly find fault with the Palestinians.  It seems a lot of these citizens are sick of giving and supporting Palestinians who will turn on them overnight and burn their flags and insult them.  

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itsnotoutthere
On 8/14/2020 at 3:17 AM, Hugh Mungus said:

Donald Trump to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for furthering peace in the middle east.....

somehow i doubt it.

Obama however, got one for being born a certain color

 

 

Lets be honest :-

58981658_OIP(6).jpg.904d665189c32ed67e1b3d75ab78a034.jpg

 

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odas
On 8/19/2020 at 7:21 PM, and then said:

As to the bolded - I agree with you and I think all religious faiths should make an effort to feed and comfort those who have nothing.

I think you may find that your opinion on behalf of the Palestinians who are enraged at this attempt at peace between Israel and the UAE, is not so widely shared:

http://mubasher.aljazeera.net/news/بعد-تطبيع-الإمارات-وسيم-يوسف-ينتقد-الفلسطينيين-اليهود-أشرف-منكم

I got this through another source that isn't well received here so I dug deeper to see if a more "reputable" source was available.  Obviously, this is just coming from SOME Arab nations like S.A. and the UAE but I was still surprised that common people in those countries would be willing to openly find fault with the Palestinians.  It seems a lot of these citizens are sick of giving and supporting Palestinians who will turn on them overnight and burn their flags and insult them.  

AT, the Palestinians NEVER had the real support of the Arabs. Reason: Palestinians generaly do not devide themself between moslems and christians. They are one.

Palestinians were only used by all sides for their interests only.

It happened before '48 it happens now and it will happen in the future if Palestinians can't have a say on their own destiny.

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and then
On 8/21/2020 at 11:45 AM, odas said:

Palestinians were only used by all sides for their interests only.

I don't pretend to know how the common man in these Arab nations feels about the Palestinians but it's a fact that there has been no real attempt to find peace by any of these governments and they often use the "plight of Palestinians" as their excuse.  I don't believe that any devout Muslim supports Israel or Jews nor that they will because of the actions of their governments.  UAE is changing course for ONE reason.  They see Iran as a greater threat than the despised Jew.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 8/22/2020 at 12:43 AM, itsnotoutthere said:

Lets be honest :-

58981658_OIP(6).jpg.904d665189c32ed67e1b3d75ab78a034.jpg

 

HOW DARE HE PUT ONCOLOGISTS OUT OF WORK!?!!

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kartikg
On 8/13/2020 at 11:10 PM, odas said:

For what? So that Israel can pull the anexion card anytime they want? So that UAE can get more money to build skyscrapers? To buy their 100ts mercedes while other muslims get bombed, killed, raped...while people still starve of hunger in the world? ( No, it is not just the Christian duty to feed starving people in the world).

So that Israel can continue to promote terroristc Zionism? So that the Arabs can continue to promote terroristic Wahabism?

The only real peace can be achived by direct talks between Palestinians and Israelis. Everything else is imposing someone elses wishes and rules.

As a muslim myself, I refuse to bow down to the false Islam that the arabs are imposing on the rest of us. I refuse to bow down to the false Judaism that the Zionists are imposing on the rest of us.

I do pray for a lasting peace between Israel and Palestine, both as recognised souveraign States.

As a Muslim do you want an secular democratic country or a nation where religion is imposed on everyone? 

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odas
19 hours ago, and then said:

I don't pretend to know how the common man in these Arab nations feels about the Palestinians but it's a fact that there has been no real attempt to find peace by any of these governments and they often use the "plight of Palestinians" as their excuse.  I don't believe that any devout Muslim supports Israel or Jews nor that they will because of the actions of their governments.  UAE is changing course for ONE reason.  They see Iran as a greater threat than the despised Jew.

I am not a fan of the Arabs or better of their way of life and their politics. As a european muslim of bosnian heritage I have felt way more negativity towards me by arabs, mainly SA and surroundings, than from christians. I was told many times by arabs that I am not a real muslim because I do not speak arabic. During the war in Bosnia they did not contribute anything to help. Moreover, they despised Us because the late Bosnian President, a muslim, Alija Izetbegovic, dared to critisize them and the backward Islam they are promoting. While Imam Ceric was the head of the Bosnian Islamic Caucas, he forbade any arabic wahabi mosques, any donations and fought against any wahabi terroristic influence in Bosnia. Ceric was also a close friend of the American Jewish Comunity where he also studied Hebrew.

Today, we see both were right. The arabs only worship money. They are selling the palestinians out for money. In Bosnia, they have now, under the corrupt politicians, bought waste pieces of land, build villas, where Bosnians cannot go. On our own land!!!

Soon, we will take it back and chase them out of Bosnia and Europe.

I have told my kids, when I die, I want a pure bosnian Imam. If not, then a Turkish imam. And if either is not possible then a Catholic priest. Any of them will say a prayer to my soul from their Heart. Arabs will not. Sellouts, khuffirs.

As for the Iranians, my friend AT, IF you had listen to them back in the fifties, not forceing them to give them their oil to you for free, if you had supported their anti shah democracy, we would not have now this conversation. All that is good in Islam, the Iranians gave it. The Iranians saved more Jews than the US, Canada and UK combined. You would have now Israel, Iran and Palestine living in peace as friends. 

Your government, the UK government, both have always played a dirty game in the middle  east and they found a sellout in the arabs who would sell their own mom for money.

 

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odas
13 hours ago, kartikg said:

As a Muslim do you want an secular democratic country or a nation where religion is imposed on everyone? 

Me? Strictly secular. Religion has no place in open sociaty. Keep religion for yourself.

 

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and then
2 hours ago, odas said:

Your government, the UK government, both have always played a dirty game in the middle  east and they found a sellout in the arabs who would sell their own mom for money.

 

I don't doubt that both the UK and US put their perceived national interests before justice for anyone else.  It's unfortunately, the way the world has worked since nations had the power to impose their will on others.  This deal between Israel and the UAE is a perfect example of this.  Those average citizens in the UAE may get to know Jews on a more personal level and hopefully, they will realize that the religious dogma against them isn't correct or even sane.  Maybe they'll still hate them just for being Jews, who knows?  The thing is, without deals like these there would NEVER be any hope of changing the blood-soaked history of the M.E.

Your point about Iran being responsible for positive efforts in the M.E. is accurate but misleading.  Iran had a very different leadership and motivation in the past.  The religious zealots that have been in control since '78 have relentlessly pushed terror and violent force to expand the reach of their "revolution".  At some point, they will become a nuclear weapons state and then the world will be closer to catastrophe than we've been since WWII.

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odas
42 minutes ago, and then said:

I don't doubt that both the UK and US put their perceived national interests before justice for anyone else.  It's unfortunately, the way the world has worked since nations had the power to impose their will on others.  This deal between Israel and the UAE is a perfect example of this.  Those average citizens in the UAE may get to know Jews on a more personal level and hopefully, they will realize that the religious dogma against them isn't correct or even sane.  Maybe they'll still hate them just for being Jews, who knows?  The thing is, without deals like these there would NEVER be any hope of changing the blood-soaked history of the M.E.

Your point about Iran being responsible for positive efforts in the M.E. is accurate but misleading.  Iran had a very different leadership and motivation in the past.  The religious zealots that have been in control since '78 have relentlessly pushed terror and violent force to expand the reach of their "revolution".  At some point, they will become a nuclear weapons state and then the world will be closer to catastrophe than we've been since WWII.

Yes, Iran had a democratic and moderate leadership that your country and UK took down for the Shah. Shah was your player where only his family and elite benefited from the oil. The democratic leadership that owerthrow the Shah back in the 50' wanted for the Iranian people to take the benefit. What was wrong with that? They even got rid of the hardcore islamists. But, the US and UK wanted all the oil for them. Khomeini is YOUR making. Todays Iran is YOUR making. TODAYS hostility between Israel, Iran and Palestinians is YOUR making. And, it does not stop. You will put up puppets in place, backstab others, kill without hesitations as long as it is in your interest but you will ALWAYS find a way to blame others.

Now you have the Qureish doing all the dirty work for you in the ME. How long will this last?

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5 hours ago, odas said:

Khomeini is YOUR making

No... Khomeini was Jimmy Carter's making. Well, with a lot of help from a certain death cult.  That's okay though... that kind of insane, generational hate is going to kill Islam long before Islam kills the world.  As to how long these things take, it really doesn't matter to those outside that hell hole, now does it?  

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Cookie Monster
On 8/13/2020 at 7:56 PM, seanjo said:

You don't understand what is going on, this isn't about the West Bank, this is about Islam ruling the Holy Land. HAMAS and the PA are not interested in peace, otherwise it would have happened after Israel left the Gaza Strip in 2005 with the next move being the return of the West Bank.

History lesson time.

That area used to be part of the British Empire until after the horrors of WW2 when we decided to let Jewish people have Israel so they had somewhere safe to call home. Unfortunately that area of the world for over a 1000 years had been home to many Muslims.

So the conflict from the Muslim side is about `they took our land away and gave it to someone else` not religious fanaticism. That triggered the 6 days war. Israel won that conflict occupying the West Bank. Now whenever a terrorist group has a pop at Israel (usually a rocket attack or shooting or suicide bombing) it responds by knocking down Palestinian houses in the West Bank and replacing them with Jewish ones.

From their perspective they are entitled to do this as a punishment, from the Arab perspective it just makes the infringement of their rights first. And here we are in 2020 and the same issues still exist and it is all a rather messy situation.

With hindsight maybe we should have given the Jews an unpopulated area of the British Empire. But the past is done and cannot be changed. So a way of helping Israel and its neighbours reach peace needs to be found. It is good to see Israel and the UAE finding a way, but I dont think it will work for most of the Arab countries in the Middle East so in my opinion conflict will continue.

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seanjo
3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

History lesson time.

That area used to be part of the British Empire until after the horrors of WW2 when we decided to let Jewish people have Israel so they had somewhere safe to call home. Unfortunately that area of the world for over a 1000 years had been home to many Muslims.

So the conflict from the Muslim side is about `they took our land away and gave it to someone else` not religious fanaticism. That triggered the 6 days war. Israel won that conflict occupying the West Bank. Now whenever a terrorist group has a pop at Israel (usually a rocket attack or shooting or suicide bombing) it responds by knocking down Palestinian houses in the West Bank and replacing them with Jewish ones.

From their perspective they are entitled to do this as a punishment, from the Arab perspective it just makes the infringement of their rights first. And here we are in 2020 and the same issues still exist and it is all a rather messy situation.

With hindsight maybe we should have given the Jews an unpopulated area of the British Empire. But the past is done and cannot be changed. So a way of helping Israel and its neighbours reach peace needs to be found. It is good to see Israel and the UAE finding a way, but I dont think it will work for most of the Arab countries in the Middle East so in my opinion conflict will continue.

Ahem, History lesson time...The UN enacted resolution 181, the partition plan, not the British.

In 1967, with 100's of thousands of Arab troops and tanks massing at the borders of Israel, Israel reiterated that if the Straits of Tiran were closed to Israeli shipping it would be an act of war. In May of 67 Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran and ejected the UNEF from the Israeli border.

Britain offered Jews a part of Uganda which they rejected.

Always remember modern Zionism was born out of the pogroms and persecution of Jews in 19th century Russia and was made inevitable by the Holocaust.

Israel has returned land, the Sinai and the Gaza strip for example, in return for peace, peace has never happened. They were set to return parts of the West Bank after Gaza but HAMAS started attacking them again. HAMAS etc. aren't interested in peace until all Jews have been driven into the sea. It's in their charter...read it.

 

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RoofGardener

Just to support Seanjo's point, the HAMAS charter can be found here

The charter of the PLO can be found here

Much was made of alleged modifications to the charter following the 1992 Oslo accords. However, despite much promising, it has never been amended, and remains in force. 

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odas
On 8/24/2020 at 3:29 AM, and then said:

No... Khomeini was Jimmy Carter's making. Well, with a lot of help from a certain death cult.  That's okay though... that kind of insane, generational hate is going to kill Islam long before Islam kills the world.  As to how long these things take, it really doesn't matter to those outside that hell hole, now does it?  

Khomeini was before Carter even new he existed. Made by the previous administrations. Just like Bin Laden.

As for your statement about Islam, again very ignorant. 

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and then
On 8/23/2020 at 4:35 PM, odas said:

They are selling the palestinians out for money.

I just saw this.  I disagree with you on the motives of Arab nations.  The ONLY reason they are cozying up to Israel is their fear of a nuclear Iran running amock in their back yard.  

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odas
19 hours ago, and then said:

I just saw this.  I disagree with you on the motives of Arab nations.  The ONLY reason they are cozying up to Israel is their fear of a nuclear Iran running amock in their back yard.  

Maybe. But that is where the problem is. What is going to happen IF lets say Iran makes a 180? You really think arabs will stay with Israel? Loyalty and friendship due to interrest is not true loyalty and friendship.

You are letting now the arabs of the hook because of Isreal but not long ago you sided with a guy here to completely destroy Saudi Arabia. I always maintained the same position regarding the true Islam, islamic achievements and the brutal wahaby interpretation of Islam. As I said, right now, we have, under Trump and with his blessing, arabs coming to Bosnia, bringing their fals terroristic wahabi islam, forceing european bosnian muslims to accept their ideology. At the same time they, arabs, are spending waste moneys on gambling, prostitues in YOUR country but executing muslims for having a beer. But, since it is good for Israel you are fine with that? I am old fashioned, my friend. I have one face and I will do everything not to lose it even if it means to die. 

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and then
1 hour ago, odas said:

As I said, right now, we have, under Trump and with his blessing, arabs coming to Bosnia, bringing their fals terroristic wahabi islam, forceing european bosnian muslims to accept their ideology.

Were Arab Muslims unable to come to Bosnia before Trump?  I don't understand your point here.  Or is the issue that Arab Muslims are buying Bosnian Muslim support?

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and then

Just saw this piece out of the UAE.  Interesting that they'd go as far as using the Qur'an as justification for making peace with the Jews:

https://worldisraelnews.com/uae-uses-koran-to-justify-peace-with-israelis-and-jews/

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odas
On 9/5/2020 at 4:11 PM, and then said:

Were Arab Muslims unable to come to Bosnia before Trump?  I don't understand your point here.  Or is the issue that Arab Muslims are buying Bosnian Muslim support?

Yes and no. Arabs tried after the war to set foot with their ideology in Bosnia. However, under Imam Mustafa Ceric they were prevented to buy land, the wahabby doctrine was illegal. Ceric had a great relationship with the American and Bosnian Jewsih community and was numeroys time guest speaker in the comunities. Further more, he was chosen by the EU to be the main interaction point when it comes to interreligious disccussions. Few years ago, and democraticly, a new main Imam was chosen. However this one made a complete 180 and now kisses the arabs butt totaly disregarding the Bosnian way of Islam.

Now, arabs have bought properties, build huge villas, have parties and...bosnians are not allowed in the gated community. 

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odas
14 hours ago, and then said:

Just saw this piece out of the UAE.  Interesting that they'd go as far as using the Qur'an as justification for making peace with the Jews:

https://worldisraelnews.com/uae-uses-koran-to-justify-peace-with-israelis-and-jews/

Well, when it comes to that, there was never anything in the Quran that says NOT to be friends with Jews or christians as a group.

Funny, since years I tell you exactely what you now find out but it did not suit your narrative.

AT, I also keep telling you Judaism and Jews were never the issue when it comes to Islamic-Jewish relations. Jews and muslims are way more simmilar than jews and christians.

 

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, odas said:

Yes and no. Arabs tried after the war to set foot with their ideology in Bosnia. However, under Imam Mustafa Ceric they were prevented to buy land, the wahabby doctrine was illegal. Ceric had a great relationship with the American and Bosnian Jewsih community and was numeroys time guest speaker in the comunities. Further more, he was chosen by the EU to be the main interaction point when it comes to interreligious disccussions. Few years ago, and democraticly, a new main Imam was chosen. However this one made a complete 180 and now kisses the arabs butt totaly disregarding the Bosnian way of Islam.

Now, arabs have bought properties, build huge villas, have parties and...bosnians are not allowed in the gated community. 

So, this was an internal issue, and nothing to do with President Trump. Thanks for clarifying this :)

2 hours ago, odas said:

Well, when it comes to that, there was never anything in the Quran that says NOT to be friends with Jews or christians as a group.

Funny, since years I tell you exactely what you now find out but it did not suit your narrative.

AT, I also keep telling you Judaism and Jews were never the issue when it comes to Islamic-Jewish relations. Jews and muslims are way more simmilar than jews and christians.

 

Oh PLEASE. Everywhere EXCEPT the  "Islamic world", Jews and Christians get on FINE. Jews are integrated into western society. It's only in Islamic countries that you get rabid jew hatred. That, however, is starting to break down under the fear of an expansionist Shia nation. 

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RoofGardener

Palestinians where yesterday rebuffed by the Arab League, which refused to table a Palestinian motion condemning the UAE for its rapprochement with Israel. 

The PLO is starting to realise that nobody actually likes them. The Arabs are happy to issue  pro-forma virtue-signallng statements in support of the Palestinians, PROVIDED they don't actually have to DO anything. But when such statements hamper their political ambitions, the Arabs quietly ditch the Palestinians. 

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/palestinians-urge-arabs-to-reject-israel-uae-deal-641653

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ThereWeAreThen

Was pleasantly surprised by this and hope more Arab countries follow. It MAY lead to the eventual stabilization of the region....which may take a few decades to achieve given the situation of the Middle East.

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RoofGardener
On 9/9/2020 at 9:01 PM, ThereWeAreThen said:

Was pleasantly surprised by this and hope more Arab countries follow. It MAY lead to the eventual stabilization of the region....which may take a few decades to achieve given the situation of the Middle East.

Well, we can but hope @ThereWeAreThen. Having said that, I suspect the 'Arab world' will only see true stability when their oil runs out. 

Well, not exactly   stability exactly, but an inability to cause problems much beyond their own borders. 

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