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Cookie Monster

The Atheism Delusion

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Cookie Monster
Posted (edited)

I will start by setting out my views.

1. Nothingness can never exist because in order for a thing to exist it needs to be made from something. Hence, nothingness is an impossible state. It has never existed and will never exist. The minimum that could ever exist would be one thing (which is the starting place of my views on Monism). Now if we think about it in order for one thing to exist then it needs somewhere to exist at, needs a point in time to exist at, as well of course as being made from something. That is the creation of space, time, and matter.

2. The Hebrew translation of the first line of the Bible does not say in the beginning God created everything. That is a miss-translation leaving out a carefully placed - used to indicate interdependence rather than cause and effect. So God didnt exist and then create the universe. God along with space, time, and matter, came into existence at the same time as they are interdependent on each other.

3. If we think about it things cannot partially exist, they either exist or they dont. If we divide something up repeatedly we eventually find building blocks or quantities which cannot be divided any further. Those are the fundamental quantities which exist or dont. There is no partial existence of them. This reveals a fourth structuring principle for that universe in that a thing is made out of a precise quantity. So God is one thing, one quantity. Quantification infuses space, time, and matter too, as things cannot partially exist. They either do or they dont.

4. So we have a God which through interdependence has its existence supported by a quantified space, time, and matter. Space consists of two components which both have an interdependence with God. That is the location that God exists at, and the only way to have a location is if its relative to everywhere else where God isn`t at. Time consists of four components. To have a God existing at a present moment in time, a present moment can only exist if there was a before and after. And continued existence of the one thing creates a flow of time in one direction. Something similar with matter too. To be made from something also requires the existence of matter the one thing is not made from.

5. Quantified and relative space, time, and matter, also need to tie up their own existence through interdependence. That requires populating the universe with matter across the present in time, backwards in time in a way which its existence is tied up nice and water tight with a Big Bang, and forwards in time to what is presumably a big crunch (if the physicists are right).

6. We are left with a universe which was created `in motion` rather than at the point of the Big Bang. Its existence is tied up going back in time to the point of the Big Bang, but it didnt start there. It started with God causing the universe to exist though interdependence. I`m going to put my head on the chopping block and say that occurred 5500 years ago, because that is the point at which civilization started. The universe in the past before then is building up to the point of civilization or to view it correctly the interdependence reduces the universe before that point until it eventually reaches the point it is all tied up water tight with the Big Bang.

7. The one thing has final form of interdependence needed to support its existence. It has to backwards create where the entity came from. That populates the universe backwards in time with life. Life which reduces as we look further into the past until we eventually reach the Big Bang. Hence evolution is not the progression of lower life to higher life. Its is the backwards creation through interdependence where the one thing as an entity is reduced down to a point it ties up nice and water tight at the point of the Big Bang.

So I reason God is a physical being on planet Earth that has through interdependence created the universe and all of us. He might not realise he is God but he is here somewhere. I say he, it might not even be a human or life as we know it. It could also be hidden from us if we consider extra dimensions too.

Edited by Cookie Monster

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XenoFish

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-qE0SRu_wMaDHaL0IGTy

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zep73
1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

1. Nothingness can never exist because in order for a thing to exist it needs to be made from something. Hence, nothingness is an impossible state. It has never existed and will never exist.

Wrong. The universe is obeying mathematical laws, and in math "something from nothing" is no problem.

We start with nothing: 0
Then we subtract any value, lets say 100: 0 - 100 = -100
We now have two values: -100 and the value missing from it +100
If we then call the +100 energy, or matter, we can call the -100 gravity
We now have matter and gravity from nothing. The universe exists.

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Cookie Monster
38 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Wrong. The universe is obeying mathematical laws, and in math "something from nothing" is no problem.

We start with nothing: 0
Then we subtract any value, lets say 100: 0 - 100 = -100
We now have two values: -100 and the value missing from it +100
If we then call the +100 energy, or matter, we can call the -100 gravity
We now have matter and gravity from nothing. The universe exists.

Maths isn`t reality, its a descriptive tool invented by man to use in an attempt to understand things.

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zep73
Just now, Cookie Monster said:

Maths isn`t reality, its a descriptive tool invented by man to use in an attempt to understand things.

And yet it happens all the time in nature. Take quantum fluctuation as an example. It is proven to be very real. Energy is "borrowed" temporarily, and returned.
Black holes is another example, where matter collapses into nothing, and the hole eventually evaporates, leaving only radiation, which fades away with time.

Math is both reality and a tool.

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Will do

 

To a certain degree if not totally, everything we think is real in life, about life, is a delusion.

 

 

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XenoFish

If you want to get technical the universe is "God", not in the anthropomorphic sense but it the most realistic sense. Considering the first stars died to create the elements that made us. We will die and return eventually to the cosmic void. All the elements within us might one day change into new elements that may create a completely different life  form. Or whatever happens. As for our conscious self. That'll be trapped within a finite span of time. So you know, whatever.

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Mr Walker
18 hours ago, Will do said:

 

To a certain degree if not totally, everything we think is real in life, about life, is a delusion.

 

 

I would say illusion.

But to a certain degree you are right :) 

Humans  often, if not always, interact with the constructs they create  about reality, not the reality itself.

  A lizard interacts with physical  reality.

Humans (apart from  the very young)  tend to interact with the internal reality constructed by their minds.

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Autochthon1990

Everybody knows the universe came into existence last thursday. So we're 48 hours in, and already I want my money back from the engineer of this hot mess. 

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Tatetopa
On 8/14/2020 at 9:14 AM, Will do said:

To a certain degree if not totally, everything we think is real in life, about life, is a delusion.

Well I suppose that includes god too.

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XenoFish
48 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Everybody knows the universe came into existence last thursday. So we're 48 hours in, and already I want my money back from the engineer of this hot mess. 

You must've gotten the beta version of Universe 665.9

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Will do
21 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well I suppose that includes god too.

 

Yeah but a point of light in the dark to approach. 

 

 

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Tatetopa
46 minutes ago, Will do said:

Yeah but a point of light in the dark to approach. 

A delusion of light in a delusion of darkness.

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Will do
4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

A delusion of light in a delusion of darkness.

 

Which is to a certain degree, if not totally, a delusion. 

 

 

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