The Atheism Delusion

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The way I see it, and if someone wants to think God is pulling everybody’s strings, far be it for me to stop them. If that someone wants everybody to feel that way, then I think you’re crossing  the line. 
Even when when you have links and evidence and clues to back up what you want others to think, you still can’t get all to think that. They  should just be happy they provided their side of the claim. In the end, a confident believer or nonbeliever, should be just happy if one person, themselves, are happy in their views.

In the end, we are still just dealing with the beliefs, They are subjective. I’m actually surprised that whole religions have been going on all these years. Subjective point of views can change person to person. How can individual subjective point of views become one like a religion?

People will believe whatever they want to believe and wont be told any different.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

Its not about what you or I want, its about what God wants. God provides us pleasures and it wants us to show love back by enjoying them.

How do you truly know that? You don't and can't. It's an assumption. 

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

How do you truly know that? You don't and can't. It's an assumption. 

Its an assumption when you haven`t tried it.

When you are open minded enough to try it then it speaks for itself. And its at the centre of Abrahamic mysticism too so you can read up on it. Kabballah or bridal mysticism.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

Its an assumption when you haven`t tried it.

When you are open minded enough to try it then it speaks for itself. And its at the centre of Abrahamic mysticism too so you can read up on it. Kabballah or bridal mysticism.

It's an assumption regardless. This is you creating an association between god and a neurochemical cocktail. Which further feeds your behavior. 

[Duke Wellington]

5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It's an assumption regardless. This is you creating an association between god and a neurochemical cocktail. Which further feeds your behaviour. 

Your worldview seems to be quite rigid.

If someone said to you why dont you give this a try because you might discover something, would you really deny yourself a look-see?

No one has to know, and if it amounts to nothing then what have you lost?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

Your worldview seems to be quite rigid.

If someone said to you why dont you give this a try because you might discover something, would you really deny yourself a look-see?

No one has to know, and if it amounts to nothing then what have you lost?

Because it does amount to nothing. I have a rather spiritual history before UM. I've explored a lot. This paradigm is nothing new.

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Because it does amount to nothing. I have a rather spiritual history before UM. I've explored a lot. This paradigm is nothing new.

Well I beg to differ, it works.

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Well I beg to differ, it works.

I knew there was something like this.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/christian-hedonism

[lightly]

13 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I think its fair to say that this thread have run its course. 

Nah !   It will get interesting again..I feel it in my bones....plus I peaked ahead. 

[lightly]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If you want to talk about that actual atheism delusion, then it is the assumption of no god. The theism delusion is the assumption of a god.

The balance is agnosticism. Maybe, maybe not. We only have a manmade concept of God. There is nothing by which to actually identify god. So truly yes/no isn't the answer; don't know. is.

For me, yes is the answer...but, I don't know why !  

[Duke Wellington]

51 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I knew there was something like this.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/christian-hedonism

There is nothing inherently wrong with enjoying pleasure.

What a miserable existence it would be without it.

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

There is nothing inherently wrong with enjoying pleasure.

What a miserable existence it would be without it.

When pleasure becomes an addiction it is. 

[zep73]

(The answers in) The following science forum thread, explains how quantum forces not only generates something from "nothing", but makes "nothing" an invalid concept:

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/122941-why-is-there-something-instead-of-nothing/

[Stubbly_Dooright]

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

People will believe whatever they want to believe and wont be told any different.

That’s the point. It’s respecting every one of them, I think is important. 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Its an assumption when you haven`t tried it.

Then it’s a disappointment when nothing happens. 
 

 

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

When you are open minded enough to try it then it speaks for itself.

Does it? I have been open minded about a lot of things. A lot of them still come up nothing. The reasons I believe in my unique belief, is that I look at it in varying realistic views.  
 

 

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Your worldview seems to be quite rigid.

If someone said to you why dont you give this a try because you might discover something, would you really deny yourself a look-see?

No one has to know, and if it amounts to nothing then what have you lost?

Does it mean, try everything? Because, that would never end.  

[GoldenWolf]

4 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

There is nothing inherently wrong with enjoying pleasure.

What a miserable existence it would be without it.

So long as it isn't sadistic pleasure.

[XenoFish]

5 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

There is nothing inherently wrong with enjoying pleasure.

What a miserable existence it would be without it.

All good things in moderation. I personal do not think the sole pursuit of happiness/pleasure is the highest goal. Such things should be the result of what we do. A temporary reward. Without misery and discomfort we would know the good things in life. Sometimes the good comes from the worst. During the worst we learn more about ourselves that when we're in the good. We learn during those harsh times our strengths and weaknesses. If we were happy all the time what need would we have to change ourselves? We wouldn't. 

[Will Due]

54 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

All good things in moderation. I personal do not think the sole pursuit of happiness/pleasure is the highest goal. Such things should be the result of what we do. A temporary reward. Without misery and discomfort we would know the good things in life. Sometimes the good comes from the worst. During the worst we learn more about ourselves that when we're in the good. We learn during those harsh times our strengths and weaknesses. If we were happy all the time what need would we have to change ourselves? We wouldn't. 

 

So now you know why there's pain and suffering in the world. 

 

 

[Duke Wellington]

Sorry, posted to the wrong topic.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[psyche101]

10 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

For those that are atheists please complete this sentence to give us a better understanding of your views.

I hate religion and God because of .........................

It's not a truth. 

It's a man made philosophy that undermines and assults logic and common sense mainly for personal benefit.

[XenoFish]

58 minutes ago, Will do said:

 

So now you know why there's pain and suffering in the world. 

 

 

Start paying attention Will. I know that's a difficult thing for you, because I've stated it a lot more than in that one post. 

[Will Due]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Start paying attention Will. I know that's a difficult thing for you, because I've stated it a lot more than in that one post. 

 

I wasn't talking to you.

 

 

[XenoFish]

Just now, Will do said:

 

I wasn't talking to you.

 

 

Then use your brain and don't quote me. It would keep me from wasting my time with you.

[Will Due]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Then use your brain and don't quote me. It would keep me from wasting my time with you.

 

Lol.

Your wasted time is my time well used.

Next!

 

 

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'm good with it.

Right......

Like Larry carrying on. Or Wills fascination with a non-existent centre of the universe, Hab unaware of basic physics, or all the accolades illy received for his biased biggoted views based on religion. Real smart?

I have to say I'm not convinced.

Not at all. You seem to really struggle with even the idea of people not having beliefs. You seem to need others to have beliefs to validate your own. The very definition of the word seem something you're just not prepared to accept. When applied to faith, disbelief comes easy. Religions make extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence. It's natural to reject such claims without very good proof unless one is indoctrinated otherwise. 

That's not how it works. That's a placebo, not critical thinking. 

I'd say again you are wrong. You seem to be referring to lateral thinking, but critical thinking. One can achieve almost any outcome with enough lateral licence. 

Again, lateral thinking approach. Justifying an outcome via extreme poetic licence. This is often ignorantly regarded as a 50/50 chance when it's not. That's where terms like 'teapot agnostic' level that playing field. 

I imagine the peole you mention gain benefits from their beliefs 

That was my point The belief is irrelevant as long as it brings good not harm

No one has no beliefs; our minds simply construct them as part of the mind's normal operation Your disbeliefs are belief constructs built exactly like a believer's beliefs   Only non self aware things like stones, or most animals, lack beliefs.

Thus, consciously or not,  your disbelief serves a purpose, and you maintain it to maintain that purpose 

Thats just normal/inevitable human function.

No functioning human mind is completely devoid of beliefs, although,we can choose to suspend belief/disbelief  in many things by a conscious decision to do so .

No; it is critical thinking, where the logic chains begin with a different assumption to your own 

It is just as easy to arrive at belief via critical/ logical analysis as to arrive a t disbelief.

  it depends how you recognise the nature, purpose, and results of belief vs disbelief.

You,make the common error of believing that anyone who applies logic and critical thinking must arrive at the same conclusion.

One reason this is not so is that individuals possess different knowledge, and understandings.

Another is that the y value different things.

Belief isn't a placebo, it's an evolved healthy mental practice.

Indeed it is much like logical thinking.

Again, only functioning human minds are capable of high levels of logical /rational, and belief based thinking.    The two go together, once  a certain higher order of thinking evolves 

Ummm, because you are trapped within  your own paradigm you cant recognise other ones.

  While you cant see it, logical critical thinking can, and does, cause/lead  people to choose belief.

Indeed, in overall human numbers in the modern world,  those who choose complete disbelief (just in religious/spiritual matters)   number only about 10% or less,and so  arguably, while exceptional, are not normal. 

By your argument, only 10% of humans engage in critical thinking on this issue 

Ps just because something is harder to achieve doesn't make it right, even if you feel a sense of accomplishment and superiority when you achieve it 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Mr Walker