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Orestes_3113

Göbleki Tepe ‘decoded’

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Orestes_3113

[Disclaimer: The contents of this post are merely the reflections of the author’s opinions an beliefs, the subject matter holds no scientific weight. The aim is to explore alternative views on history.]

Neolithic astronomy was communicated by creating paintings or stone cut reliefs of animals to create a scene that mimics the heavens. It is evident that the ancients understood concepts like precession of the equinoctial points, in this post I will explain ancient reliefs of Göbleki Tepe as skymaps that incorporate such concepts.

1*yZK3O2ED2f-taqVuvMopWA.jpeg

Figure 1 Pillars of Göbleki Tepe

Neolithic astronomers leveraged their understanding of cosmology to track time and space. I have demonstrated the concept of the Meridian Star using the Nabta Playa Stone Circle in ancient Nubia (c. 4,800 BCE)

Read More | Nabta Playa Circle Tracks the Meridian Star

Göbekli Tepe, or “Potbelly Hill”, is an archaeological site in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of Turkey dating back to the 10th–8th millennium BCE. Massive ‘T’-shaped stone pillars were erected, the world’s oldest known megaliths. More than 200 pillars in about 20 circles are known (as of May 2020) through geophysical surveys. Each pillar has a height of up to 6 m (20 ft) and weighs up to 10 tons.

Many of the pillars are decorated with abstract, enigmatic pictograms and carved animal reliefs. The pictograms may represent commonly understood sacred symbols, as known from Neolithic cave paintings elsewhere. The reliefs depict mammals such as lions, bulls, boars, foxes, gazelles, and donkeys; snakes and other reptiles; arthropods such as insects and arachnids; and birds, particularly vultures.[1]

 

Read More | Protodynastic Egyptian AstronomyProtodynastic Egyptian Starmaps.

The most frequently recurring pillars while searching the internet have been pillar 2, 33 and 34, I will limit my time to Pillar 43 for now. Pillar 43 is been regarded as Göbleki Tepe’s Rosetta Stone therefore I will start with these reliefs.

Ancient stone carvings confirm comet struck Earth in 10 ...

Figure 2 Pillar 43, Enclosure D, also known as the Vulture Stone of Göbekli Tepe.

Above is a photograph of the front of Pillar 43, what you see are two segments on top of each other with a group of animals. On the top half we have an eagle, a disc, two sets of vultures and an oddly shaped plough like figure. Just below lines that could be described as sinusoid. The top row shows three baskets like figures with handles. On the bottom half we see a prominently displayed scorpion in the center, directly below it a birdlike head and neck. To the bird’s right a figure that looks like a decapitated lizard. To the left of the scorpion a figure that resembles a boar and another tail like figure with a mace. I will not consider the side of the pillar for now.

We know that our primary focus should not be the summer solstice but on the winter solstice as stars are not visible during the day. It is a common mistake to focus solely on the summer solstice.

Before continuing we need to consider the importance of the Milky Way, the celestial poles and any kind of alignments that have to do with solstices of equinoxes. We know that our primary focus should not be the summer solstice but on the winter solstice as stars are not visible during the day and we want that maximum tilt. It is a common mistake to focus solely on the summer solstice.

Note that the eagle and disc are strikingly familiar to the constellation Cygnus, this has been mentioned often by independent researches and I would agree. However the placement of the disc is odd, it seems to have been flipped horizontally where west becomes east and vice versa.

I’m starting with the top half and setting the date to the winter solstice of 10,017 BCE and the following image appears:

1*rsogURD6T0y03hmeZS2bRA.png

Figure 3 Northern view that corresponds to the Vulture Stone (the image is horizontally mirrored)

 

Here we see the constellation Cygnus as represented by the eagle, Vega (Lyra) as the disc, Hurcules relates to the top vulture, the bottom vulture is related to Draco, the odd shaped plough could be Bootus (the plough) or could perhaps include stars within that region like the Corona Borealis.

Around 10,000 BCE Vega sits just above the equinoctial colure. The equinoctial colure is the meridian or great circle of the celestial sphere which passes through the celestial poles and the two equinoxes. [2] Due to precession this will change over the course of centuries, c. 9,500 BCE the disc would have dropped below the equinoctial colure as described by the sinus waves above the disc on Pillar 43. The waves could therefore describe the changes of daylength according to the seasons.

The equinoctial colure as a line will be straight and vertically aligned to the polar axis on the night of the equinoxes, this will happen on either of the equinoctial midnights. You can see this by clicking the following links: vernal equinoxautumnal equinox. Knowing when Vega has crossed the this meridian is to know when it has crossed the equinoctial colure! Vega is therefore the ‘Equinoctial Meridian Star’ for this period.

Vega is therefore the ‘Equinoctial Meridian Star’ for this period.

Read More | The Meridian StarFour Absolute Seasons.

The bottom halve complements the top halve if you follow the Milky Way and start from the south west:

1*_muGq1VAFnHsBZCL_N8WAQ.png

Figure 4 Southern view that corresponds to the Vulture Stone (again the image is horizontally mirrored)

Scorpion is of course the constellation Scorpius, the boar represents Centaurus with the tail above its head belonging to Lupus. The bird’s head is represented by Triangulum Australe and the decapitated lizard could resemble the constellation Pavo.

I have chosen the year 10,017 BCE because in this year the Solstice Colure (or the polar axis) crossed the celestial equator and the galactic equator in the midst of Lupus, Scorpius and Triangulum Australe at the constellation of Norma. A crossing that only happens every 25,800 years.

A different bus evenly rare was the observation in ancient Nubia in the year 4,461 BCE when the polar axis crossed the Galactic equator, the Celestial equator, and the Ecliptic during the autumnal equinox at Nabta Playa. This goes to show that those who lived in the Neolithic and erected monuments were in the right time and place to venerate these precession events, as was the case with the Sphinx in lower Egypt. This does not mean that this was certainly the case, it merely means they could have but in my opinion this train of thought serves as the best explanation for these structures at this time.

Read more | Sphinx’s Aligns To Regulus (Leo) During Fifth Dynasty Egypt.

What is left of the front of Pillar 43 are the three baskets with handle. Given the placement at the top and in threefold it might have something to do with the crossing mention above with the three handles possibly resembling the three arcs of the polar, the equatorial and the galactic.

Image for post

Figure 5 Teapot at the Galactic Center

 

Furthermore the image resembles a bit like that of the ‘teapot’ within the constellation of Sagittarius, this is also the location where the Milky Way crosses the Ecliptic at the Galactic Center.

Resumé… Neolithic cultures in all likelihood erected monuments to venerate the precessions, observe the solstices and equinoxes, Göbekli Tepe is no exception. At Göbleki Tepi the people used stone cutting to create reliefs as was common during the Neolithic.

The relief of Pillar 43 depicts the star Vega from the constellation Lyra crossing over the Equinoctial Colure on the winter solstice. This could have been deduced by tracking the midnight meridian on either of the equinoxes. The pillar shows the visible constellations along the Milky Way during the winter nights.

On the winter solstice of 10,017 BCE the galactic equator cross the celestial equator and the midnight meridian, an event rare enough to be venerated. I am of the opinion that it was this event, along with the tracking of Vega as it crossed the Equinoctial Colure, that were among the prime motivators of this site’s construction.

On Pillar 43 a disc shaped figure was used to represent Vega, perhaps to signal it as a pole star. Vega was close to being the pole star at the time and so it is likely that the disc represents the axis of rotation of the earth. The distance of Vega to the North Celestial Pole provides the symbolic radius of the circle. The same idea was presented in my post about Protodynastic Egyptian Astronomy.

The observational techniques at Göbleki Tepe are the same as observed at Nabta Playa (South Egytpt c. 4,800 BCE) and in Upper and Lower Egypt (c. 3,100 BCE). During the Neolithic the focus always seems to be on the midnight meridian and its relation to the solstices and equinoxes.

By Orestes_3113

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Piney
3 hours ago, Orestes_3113 said:

It is evident that the ancients understood concepts like precession of the equinoctial points

No, they didn't. Their civilizations weren't around long enough. 

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quiXilver
Posted (edited)

Thanks for sharing @Orestes_3113.  I enjoyed reading it.

Gobekli Tepe is endlessly fascinating to me.  The complexity and level of skill are a marvel.

 

Edited by quiXilver
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Piney
7 hours ago, quiXilver said:

Gobekli Tepe is endlessly fascinating to me.  The complexity and level of skill are a marvel.

It's more about being detail oriented than complexity. Hunter-gathers and nomads had a lot of spare time on their if the pickings were good because they could stock up for months and relax for a few more months. 

That's why hunter-gatherers have more complex languages. They have time to sit around and philosophize.  

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quiXilver
9 hours ago, Piney said:

It's more about being detail oriented than complexity. Hunter-gathers and nomads had a lot of spare time on their if the pickings were good because they could stock up for months and relax for a few more months. 

That's why hunter-gatherers have more complex languages. They have time to sit around and philosophize.  

Agreed.

Another example of how 'Civilization' is not very civilized... in my experience.

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Piney
3 hours ago, quiXilver said:

Agreed.

Another example of how 'Civilization' is not very civilized... in my experience.

I had to work out Algonquian spiritual concepts in English for months with @XenoFish  because he could figure out what I was trying to convey. 

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quiXilver

Language determines much of our conceptual potential in egoic/personality thinking.

English is clunky as hell to me, due to its ridiculous notion that verbs must be instigated by nouns.

 

Never seen a noun in my life... everything is a verb, verbing its presence among the aggregates of the co-arising.

Some concepts are just not very processable for an English based mind.

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Trelane
13 hours ago, quiXilver said:

Agreed.

Another example of how 'Civilization' is not very civilized... in my experience.

Please explain. You keep repeating this narrative across threads of how horrible humans are and civilization is. "Barbarians" in one particular thread.

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Harte

From a couple of engineers in Edinburgh

Orestes is just parroting this silliness and saying he believes it.

That could have (and probably should have) been done with a link and a sentence.

This has been discussed here before. Also, the team that is working at Gobleki Tepe (and has been so doing for decades) just laughs at them.

Harte

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Harte

Link   Colavito 

Sentence  See what I mean?

Harte

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Orestes_3113
16 minutes ago, Harte said:

From a couple of engineers in Edinburgh

Orestes is just parroting this silliness and saying he believes it.

That could have (and probably should have) been done with a link and a sentence.

This has been discussed here before. Also, the team that is working at Gobleki Tepe (and has been so doing for decades) just laughs at them.

Harte

Haven't seen that before. I do my own interpretations. Gobleki Tepe is a small stop leading into Egypt / Biblical history. 

I laugh at those who simply cannot read and connect dots. To be continued...

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Harte

Uh huh.

So your own "interpretations" just happen to align with that of a couple of German Engineers (that never even worked at the site) whose paper was published by an academic journal in 2017 and splashed all over every fringe site on the internet, not to mention legitimate newspapers and magazine websites.

Harte

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Orestes_3113
22 minutes ago, Harte said:

Uh huh.

So your own "interpretations" just happen to align with that of a couple of German Engineers (that never even worked at the site) whose paper was published by an academic journal in 2017 and splashed all over every fringe site on the internet, not to mention legitimate newspapers and magazine websites.

Harte

From what I get from your link we are talking about asteroids and cataclysms, not my cup of tea.

I'm simply showing what the reliefs could have portrayed. Also how the Nabta Plays stone circle could have been used (previous post). I have seen nothing like it elsewhere.

Even with my interpretations. Show me another that has flipped the screen horizontally...most probably they didnt. So these Germans probably have gotten wrong results.

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Kenemet
On 8/28/2020 at 1:39 PM, Orestes_3113 said:

[Disclaimer: The contents of this post are merely the reflections of the author’s opinions an beliefs, the subject matter holds no scientific weight. The aim is to explore alternative views on history.]

Neolithic astronomy was communicated by creating paintings or stone cut reliefs of animals to create a scene that mimics the heavens. It is evident that the ancients understood concepts like precession of the equinoctial points, in this post I will explain ancient reliefs of Göbleki Tepe as skymaps that incorporate such concepts.

1*yZK3O2ED2f-taqVuvMopWA.jpeg

Figure 1 Pillars of Göbleki Tepe

Neolithic astronomers leveraged their understanding of cosmology to track time and space. I have demonstrated the concept of the Meridian Star using the Nabta Playa Stone Circle in ancient Nubia (c. 4,800 BCE)

Read More | Nabta Playa Circle Tracks the Meridian Star

Göbekli Tepe, or “Potbelly Hill”, is an archaeological site in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of Turkey dating back to the 10th–8th millennium BCE. Massive ‘T’-shaped stone pillars were erected, the world’s oldest known megaliths. More than 200 pillars in about 20 circles are known (as of May 2020) through geophysical surveys. Each pillar has a height of up to 6 m (20 ft) and weighs up to 10 tons.

 

.... they haven't uncovered 80% of the site and now someone's "decoding" it???

I want some better evidence that they understand what's going on.  Heck, I can "decode" a pattern of cars named for animals in a mall parking lot to match the sky or pretty much anything else I want.

Good science means waiting to examine the whole body of evidence.  Bad science (as we've learned many, many times in the past) is making a conclusion based on partial evidence.

 

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Orestes_3113
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

 

.... they haven't uncovered 80% of the site and now someone's "decoding" it???

I want some better evidence that they understand what's going on.  Heck, I can "decode" a pattern of cars named for animals in a mall parking lot to match the sky or pretty much anything else I want.

Good science means waiting to examine the whole body of evidence.  Bad science (as we've learned many, many times in the past) is making a conclusion based on partial evidence.

 

giphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

 

I will simply spoon feed you guys the ABC's and make you understand. As of right now you are still illiterate when it comes to astroanything, denial mode is all you utter.

Edited by Orestes_3113

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Kenemet
1 minute ago, Orestes_3113 said:

giphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

What's this supposed to mean?

Are we having a discussion or just tossing out random pictures?  Inquiring minds want to know.  If we're playing picture games, I'll have to go find some memes.

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Orestes_3113
Just now, Kenemet said:

What's this supposed to mean?

Are we having a discussion or just tossing out random pictures?  Inquiring minds want to know.  If we're playing picture games, I'll have to go find some memes.

Bring on the meme's always good for a laugh. If you have questions that aim for clarification then I am more than happy to answer the best I can but mostly you guys simply ask questions to bait someone in and 'punish' them for answering.

But yeah spoon feeding... it is going to be fun force feeding the bible when the time comes.

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Kenemet
Just now, Orestes_3113 said:

Bring on the meme's always good for a laugh. If you have questions that aim for clarification then I am more than happy to answer the best I can but mostly you guys simply ask questions to bait someone in and 'punish' them for answering.

But yeah spoon feeding... it is going to be fun force feeding the bible when the time comes.

I was remarking that they are making an assessment of a new site and a fairly new culture with only 20% of the site documented and furthermore these aren't even the researchers working on the site but armchair observers with a specific background that's not in the archaeology of the region.

Do you have any comment on the suitability of non-experts to accurately interpret archaeological sites?  I have not seen you responding to that.

Because if you're using THEIR paper (debunked, by the way, by people who worked on the site) then you have started off from a false premise.

 

And as for the Bible, you will find that posters, including ones you disagree with, are quite familiar with the book (I have read it cover-to-cover several times and can actually stumble through some of the sections of older (Latin) versions.  Like many here, I do not rely solely on English translations and like many here I am also aware that the original manuscripts are not divided by chapter or by verse -- modern interpretations which rely on the modern artificial division of the Bible often lead to a lot of misinterpretation.  

So if you decide to get into THAT swamp, be aware that you're not the only one familiar with the book.

See the source image

(random meme, folks.)

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Orestes_3113
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I was remarking that they are making an assessment of a new site and a fairly new culture with only 20% of the site documented and furthermore these aren't even the researchers working on the site but armchair observers with a specific background that's not in the archaeology of the region.

Do you have any comment on the suitability of non-experts to accurately interpret archaeological sites?  I have not seen you responding to that.

Because if you're using THEIR paper (debunked, by the way, by people who worked on the site) then you have started off from a false premise.

 

And as for the Bible, you will find that posters, including ones you disagree with, are quite familiar with the book (I have read it cover-to-cover several times and can actually stumble through some of the sections of older (Latin) versions.  Like many here, I do not rely solely on English translations and like many here I am also aware that the original manuscripts are not divided by chapter or by verse -- modern interpretations which rely on the modern artificial division of the Bible often lead to a lot of misinterpretation.  

So if you decide to get into THAT swamp, be aware that you're not the only one familiar with the book.

See the source image

(random meme, folks.)

Again I have not based it on their paper. Looking at it now, it makes many mistakes so no i wouldnt go by that.

When it comes to the Bible when someone presents me accurate date (to the hour) of events like Cain killing his brother Able (include the region from where it is best observed for additional points), the Exodus or the days of Noah on the Ark or the casting out of Adam and Eve or the birth of Abraham (to the day). And can show me how they derived these dates then sure I will accept them as knowing the Bible. 

However if they cannot produce the above, show the delta's contrast/confirm by scripture then they can keep reading any translation they'd like for as long as they like, they remain illiterate.

Edited by Orestes_3113
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jmccr8
3 minutes ago, Orestes_3113 said:

However if they cannot produce the above, show the delta's contrast/confirm by scripture then they can keep reading any translation they'd like for as long as they like, they remain illiterate.

Hi Orestes

you do realize that Gobleki predates the bible considerably and has no connection 

jmccr8

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Orestes_3113
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Orestes

you do realize that Gobleki predates the bible considerably and has no connection 

jmccr8

Of course

 

That is actually the reason why I included Göbleky Tepe and Nabta Playa to my posts. To show that the same techniques have been used over and over and over again... and again... even the Picts used them in Scotland until around 700 AD.

I have a few more pillars to present to you over the next couple of weeks then I'll wrap it up and move once more past Egypt (maybe trash the Narmer Palette a bit) and finally connect to Biblical history. 

Edited by Orestes_3113
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jmccr8
14 minutes ago, Orestes_3113 said:

Of course

 

That is actually the reason why I included Göbleky Tepe and Nabta Playa to my posts. To show that the same techniques have been used over and over and over again... and again... even the Picts used them in Scotland until around 700 AD.

Orestes

Because of the bible? 

jmccr8

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Orestes_3113
Just now, jmccr8 said:

Orestes

Because of the bible? 

jmccr8

No because things are related.

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jmccr8
Just now, Orestes_3113 said:

No because things are related.

Orestes

In what manner

jmccr8

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