Göbleki Tepe ‘decoded’

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Ahh yes, the veracity of Adam and Eve, a story that even the Catholic Church and mainstream Judaism believes to be “metaphorical truth” rather than “literal reality”. 
Keep up the good work Sisyphus, msybe today you’ll get that boulder to the top of the mountain.

[Herbert Sanders]

8 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ahh yes, the veracity of Adam and Eve, a story that even the Catholic Church and mainstream Judaism believes to be “metaphorical truth” rather than “literal reality”. 
Keep up the good work Sisyphus, msybe today you’ll get that boulder to the top of the mountain.

Lol it is the second chapter the earliest we can go by 'written' account when it comes to the Bible you cannot really take the story of Adam and Eve out... What I find interesting is the genealogy and the consistency therein. You can make fun of it all you want but the words have not been damaged to the point that we cannot recover the dates. I'll go deeper into the stories of genesis at a later time and you will see that there is a zero probability that the story has a different origin.

[Harte]

Genesis dates to almost certainly after the Babylonian exile. If that date is wrong, it means it was written during the exile.

In Babylon, Rabbis were made librarians because they were all quite literate.

Smells fishy to me.

Harte

[Herbert Sanders]

3 minutes ago, Harte said:

Genesis dates to almost certainly after the Babylonian exile. If that date is wrong, it means it was written during the exile.

In Babylon, Rabbis were made librarians because they were all quite literate.

Smells fishy to me.

Harte

You can have an oral tradition and write things down at a later time... Not such a hard concept to grasp.

Or if you are a mathematician calculate the events at a later time, write a story set in ancient history...  and calculate some events for a future time et voila you have something for the believers

Edited September 1, 2020 by Orestes_3113

[Harte]

Point is that there are Rabbinical texts that predate that period. Genesis isn't one of them.

Harte

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, Orestes_3113 said:

Right. Do you even read? Do you even know what the OT states? When it comes to dating even the brightest rabbi needs to make educated guesses. So why should I believe what they believe? I first need to understand what was said, then make up my own mind thank you very much. At this moment in time I do think that I know better than someone who holds different views. Let them reckon and show me a better date and provide an explanation. They won't be able to I can assure you that.

How many days on the boat? (You know it is a trick question )

Some of us see the talking serpents, impossible population of the planet through inbreeding, stories that contradict recorded history, and a petty, mean-spirited deity and think, “This would be a really ****ty history book,” and understand it to be religious propaganda. 

But you (who certainly are not an expert and definitely not a screaming egotist who alone understands history) see a compelling historical tale and sky map.  

—Jaylemurph 

[jaylemurph]

29 minutes ago, Orestes_3113 said:

Or if you are a mathematician calculate the events at a later time, write a story set in ancient history...  and calculate some events for a future time et voila you have something for the believers

Yes, Orestes. You explain /to the mathematician/ what mathematicians can do. I guess we can rack up mathematics as another field of which you know nothing but nevertheless have expert opinions on...

—Jaylemurph 

[Herbert Sanders]

17 minutes ago, Harte said:

Point is that there are Rabbinical texts that predate that period. Genesis isn't one of them.

Harte

ìt doesnt really matter when Genesis was written. What matters is that it is consistent to a certain set of dates correlating to the sky.

5 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Some of us see the talking serpents, impossible population of the planet through inbreeding, stories that contradict recorded history, and a petty, mean-spirited deity and think, “This would be a really ****ty history book,” and understand it to be religious propaganda. 

But you (who certainly are not an expert and definitely not a screaming egotist who alone understands history) see a compelling historical tale and sky map.  

—Jaylemurph 

Perhaps some of you are too traumatized to see clearly. Remember this is a one versus many thread so my style of writing might be a tad bit influenced by the situation. 

1 minute ago, jaylemurph said:

Yes, Orestes. You explain /to the mathematician/ what mathematicians can do. I guess we can rack up mathematics as another field of which you know nothing but nevertheless have expert opinions on...

—Jaylemurph 

If I can do it with a computer then they can perhaps do it without, or not. Experts are human beings too you know, no need to put them on such a pedestal. Children can have good opinions on experts the one holding an opinion doesn't need to be an expert. Children can be right about things too, more so than experts. Sometimes experts are so full of themselves that they simply become fools and sometimes the emperor simply has no clothes. Time will tell if the emperor is you or me.

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

And in doing so you would divorce the data from its cultural context in order to support your fantasy. Typical fringe behavior.

And, from a scientific perspective, you have no "theory". Merely unsupported speculation.

.

You’re far too nice Swede, it’s pretty obvious that what he has is an over abundance of verbal diarrhea. 
 

cormac

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Orestes_3113 said:

Monopoly talk. This has nothing to do with getting to the bottom of things. You are simply pulling up walls to defend your world view without the intent of hearing someone out. You and the unexplained 'in-breds' are suffering a serious case of groupthink acting as clowns.

Orestes

the questions that I have asked you are relevant to your premise so that is not building walls. I have no fear or discomfort discussing what you have put forward nor have I said anything against you as a person so how about you focus on what your claim is.

jmccr8

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

from a scientific perspective, you have no "theory". 

 

Pardon me Swede but wasn't Einstein told the same thing? 

 

 

[jaylemurph]

18 minutes ago, Orestes_3113 said:

If I can do it with a computer then they can perhaps do it without, or not. Experts are human beings too you know, no need to put them on such a pedestal. Children can have good opinions on experts the one holding an opinion doesn't need to be an expert. Children can be right about things too, more so than experts. Sometimes experts are so full of themselves that they simply become fools and sometimes the emperor simply has no clothes. Time will tell if the emperor is you or me.

Yeah, we're not talking about random theoretical mathematician alpha. We're talking about Harte.

If you can find instances of him being wrong about something here, particularly as regards mathematics, I'd like to see it. He has a history of being right and answering questions people put to him. Two things (your evident persecution complex notwithstanding) he appears measurably better at than you and two hallmarks  of actual experts.

--Jaylemurph

[jaylemurph]

1 minute ago, Will do said:

 

Pardon me Swede but wasn't Einstein told the same thing? 

 

 

Yes, but we still carry out experiments in which Einstein is proved right.

I'm not aware of anyone confirming anything Orestes is saying.

--Jaylemurph

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, Orestes_3113 said:

Right. Do you even read? Do you even know what the OT states? When it comes to dating even the brightest rabbi needs to make educated guesses. So why should I believe what they believe? I first need to understand what was said, then make up my own mind thank you very much. At this moment in time I do think that I know better than someone who holds different views. Let them reckon and show me a better date and provide an explanation. They won't be able to I can assure you that.

How many days on the boat? (You know it is a trick question )

Which just means you’re forcing your 21st century mindset on what those from the 1st millennium BC said and meant. That just makes you a willful liar. Congratulations on being irrelevant to Jewish history. 
 

cormac

[Herbert Sanders]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Orestes

the questions that I have asked you are relevant to your premise so that is not building walls. I have no fear or discomfort discussing what you have put forward nor have I said anything against you as a person so how about you focus on what your claim is.

jmccr8

You were asking for a scientific method within the Bible right? I have not come to that subject yet, although I opened the lid a bit on Adam & Eve and Abraham to show that there are dates and that they are significant I have yet to explain them in full. This is merely 1% I think of the dates that I will present so it will be a while. For now I'm still stuck at GT and later on a bit more of Egypt in order to rile up the gang here then finally I'll get into the subject that might get you the answers that you desire.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Orestes_3113 said:

You were asking for a scientific method within the Bible right? I have not come to that subject yet, although I opened the lid a bit on Adam & Eve and Abraham to show that there are dates and that they are significant I have yet to explain them in full. This is merely 1% I think of the dates that I will present so it will be a while. For now I'm still stuck at GT and later on a bit more of Egypt in order to rile up the gang here then finally I'll get into the subject that might get you the answers that you desire.

 Orestes

okay well then let's get to it then.

jmccr8

[Will Due]

 

Here's a question for ya:

Was Gobekli Tepe in the Land of Nod?

 

 

[Herbert Sanders]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

 Orestes

okay well then let's get to it then.

jmccr8

I'll try to do weekly posts. Im not claiming them to be scientific but merely truth as I see it. If I am right or wrong is up to you but I have the right to believe what I believe. 

I am putting in the effort and it isnt simply scrambling some themes together. What I present has been progressing for a long time. Once I go deep into the Biblical swamp that is when things really get interesting.

Especially when considering the context of Egypt and before.

5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Which just means you’re forcing your 21st century mindset on what those from the 1st millennium BC said and meant. That just makes you a willful liar. Congratulations on being irrelevant to Jewish history. 
 

cormac

What is a Jew? What is Jewish history?

[Herbert Sanders]

3 minutes ago, Will do said:

 

Here's a question for ya:

Was Gobekli Tepe in the Land of Nod?

 I think the scene of Cain murdering Able was best viewed between the first and second cataract along the Nile in 3800BCE. That or furtger west or south.

The scene is a partial blood moon (partial lunar eclipse) at sunrise just above the horison.

If the A-Group in upper Egypt can be linked to the Adamites for lack of a better term then perhaps lower Egypt might be the line of Cain. To my best guess Egypt is the Land of Nod.

I'll provide a screenshot in a min, just south of Aswan.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Orestes_3113 said:

 I think the scene of Cain murdering Able was best viewed between the first and second cataract along the Nile in 3800BCE. That or furtger west or south.

The scene is a partial blood moon (partial lunar eclipse) at sunrise just above the horison.

If the A-Group in upper Egypt can be linked to the Adamites for lack of a better term then perhaps lower Egypt might be the line of Cain. To my best guess Egypt is the Land of Nod.

I'll provide a screenshot in a min, just south of Aswan.

 

Where do you think the Garden was located?

 

 

[Herbert Sanders]

35 minutes ago, Will do said:

 

Where do you think the Garden was located?

Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

If the Garden was located at the place were Able was murdered then I think it was at the location near what is now Lake Nasser (Not Mesopotamia, the moon would have already been below the horizon during the eclipse!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nasser

https://oi.uchicago.edu/museum-exhibits/nubia/ancient-nubia-group-3800–3100-bc

I forgot to mention during the blood moon the planets Jupiter, Saturn and Mars were in close proximity near the sign of Gemini at the midheaven just above Canis Minor (associated with Anubis, Egyptian underworld guardian, perhaps the apple I don't know).

Also looking SSW an hour before you have that familiar Egyptian smiting of the enemy stance...

I will show more of this with my next Göbleki Tepe post, there is a lot to say about this frame...

Edited September 1, 2020 by Orestes_3113

[jaylemurph]

47 minutes ago, Orestes_3113 said:

What is a Jew? What is Jewish history?

Odd sort of question for someone claiming to be a Biblical expert.

--Jaylemurph

[Will Due]

32 minutes ago, Orestes_3113 said:

If the Garden was located at the place were Able was murdered then I think it was at the location near what is now Lake Nasser (Not Mesopotamia, the moon would have already been below the horizon during the eclipse!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nasser

https://oi.uchicago.edu/museum-exhibits/nubia/ancient-nubia-group-3800–3100-bc

I forgot to mention during the blood moon the planets Jupiter, Saturn and Mars were in close proximity near the sign of Gemini at the midheaven just above Canis Minor (associated with Anubis, Egyptian underworld guardian, perhaps the apple I don't know).

Also looking SSW an hour before you have that familiar Egyptian smiting of the enemy stance...

I will show more of this with my next Göbleki Tepe post, there is a lot to say about this frame...

 

Ok but what do the position of the planets have to do with determining information about GT or the Garden?

I don't recall that there's much if any info in the Bible about the positions of the planets relative to dates or events.

 

 

[Herbert Sanders]

2 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Odd sort of question for someone claiming to be a Biblical expert.

--Jaylemurph

Revelation 3:9-10, a little dramatic but still. Some say they are and are not, who then decides and by what measure? What is a Jew?

[Herbert Sanders]

41 minutes ago, Will do said:

 

Ok but what do the position of the planets have to do with determining information about GT or the Garden?

I don't recall that there's much if any info in the Bible about the positions of the planets relative to dates or events.

There are images used at Göbleki Tepe that have been used over and over throughout human history. The Garden is a mystery that sits in the middle between GT and known history.

The Bible never speaks about planets, the text is layered like a code you need to catch the signal phrases and start digging. The book of Jubilees is clear about it though:

If a man can number the sand of the earth, 

His seed also shall be numbered.
And all the blessings wherewith the Lord hath blessed me and my seed shall belong to Jacob and his seed alway.

And in his seed shall my name be blessed, and the name of my fathers, Shem, and Noab, and Enoch, and Mahalalel, and Enos, and Seth, and Adam.

And these shall serve:To lay the foundations of the heaven,
And to strengthen the earth,

And to renew all the luminaries which are in the firmament.

― Abraham (Jubilees 19:22-25)

'Jacob, my beloved son, whom my soul loveth, may God bless thee from above the firmament, and may He give thee all the blessings wherewith He blessed Adam, and Enoch, and Noah, and Shem;

and all the things of which He told me, and all the things which He promised to give me, may he cause to cleave to thee and to thy seed for ever, according to the days of heaven above the earth.

And the Spirits of Mastêmâ shall not rule over thee or over thy seed to turn thee from the Lord, who is thy God from henceforth for ever.

And may the Lord God be a father to thee and thou the first-born son, and to the people alway.

Go in peace, my son.' 

― Abraham (Jubilees 19:27-30)

What it says to me is to say it in a corny way... be a disciple of what happens above so that you translate it to your earthly life (strengthen the earth). The dates that can be derived from Jubilees confirm with Genesis and vice versa and so they use the same technique.

When I get to it I will show the days that Noah spent on the Ark you can track them by following the lunar cycles across the signs and contrast them to the text.

Also an example from Revelation when it comes to eclipse season:

6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Once you accept the notion that there are signifiers to astronomy then you will see it more often.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Orestes_3113