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Eldorado

Riots in Sweden over Quran burning

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itsnotoutthere
6 hours ago, Setton said:

Quite telling. So even though they live in that country, people don't count unless they were born there?

Think you misunderstand me. Im highlighting the idea of newly arrived people trying to change their newly adopted country to mimic the country they have left behind. People should 'count in that country' if they abide by the laws of that country. Why don't we all riot and burn stuff down when we feel annoyed about something...what a great world that would be.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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OverSword

Speaking as a follower of Thor, I don't agree with the tactic of burning other peoples religious text's just to inflame them.  There is no need to be rude.

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odas

Did I miss something? Well, if you pay with fire...

Both sides are stupid, no good ones on either side. Those who burned the Quran are idiots as well as the rioters after that. Don't they know that there are billions of Qurans? It's not like there is a shortage or Allah is going to be harmed by that action. Too little faith too many wide open mouths.

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odas
Just now, odas said:

Did I miss something? Well, if you play with fire...

Both sides are stupid, no good ones on either side. Those who burned the Quran are idiots as well as the rioters after that. Don't they know that there are billions of Qurans? It's not like there is a shortage or Allah is going to be harmed by that action. Too little faith too many wide open mouths.

 

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Hugh Mungus
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Speaking as a follower of Thor, I don't agree with the tactic of burning other peoples religious text's just to inflame them.  There is no need to be rude.

And if someone burnt an image of Thor i bet you wouldn't get violent about it.

Religious people are supposed to be forgiving, patient and virtuous. Like Christians are when presented with offensive material or imagery, i don't know why we should hold lower standards for less civilized religions. It seems racist to me to expect less from Muslims because they aren't white

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Setton
4 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Think you misunderstand me. Im highlighting the idea of newly arrived people trying to change their newly adopted country to mimic the country they have left behind. People should 'count in that country' if they abide by the laws of that country. Why don't we all riot and burn stuff down when we feel annoyed about something...what a great world that would be.

If @and then goes out killing democrats, he will be breaking the laws of his country. So his opinions no longer count (by your ideas).

Or is there a cutoff? After X generations you can do what you like?

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Michelle

Rioters are burning Bible's and flags in the US. I don't see anyone hunting them down.

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Cookie Monster
4 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Think you misunderstand me. Im highlighting the idea of newly arrived people trying to change their newly adopted country to mimic the country they have left behind. People should 'count in that country' if they abide by the laws of that country. Why don't we all riot and burn stuff down when we feel annoyed about something...what a great world that would be.

We shouldn`t changing to fit in with them.

They should be changing to fit in with us.

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OverSword
13 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

And if someone burnt an image of Thor i bet you wouldn't get violent about it.

Religious people are supposed to be forgiving, patient and virtuous. Like Christians are when presented with offensive material or imagery, i don't know why we should hold lower standards for less civilized religions. It seems racist to me to expect less from Muslims because they aren't white

I completely agree that Muslims should not get violent over the quoran being burnt.  Provoking someone just because you can should also not be done. 

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Hugh Mungus
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I completely agree that Muslims should not get violent over the quoran being burnt.  Provoking someone just because you can should also not be done. 

Even if there are valid reasons?

For example, in the presidential debates, is Trump not going to try and provoke Biden in the hopes of Biden displaying some form of adverse reaction (confused, angry or any emotion that could come off as unhinged). Would that be valid?

If you are arguing that other groups do not fit in a western society because they have particular beliefs that clash with societal norms, then doing one of these actions (like drawing a cartoon or burning a book/flag) to prompt the reaction could be seen as valid. To censor your actions to protect peoples beliefs that do not fit in to your society will just kick the can down the road and lead to bigger problems, or a snowball effect.

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OverSword
6 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Even if there are valid reasons?

For example, in the presidential debates, is Trump not going to try and provoke Biden in the hopes of Biden displaying some form of adverse reaction (confused, angry or any emotion that could come off as unhinged). Would that be valid?

If you are arguing that other groups do not fit in a western society because they have particular beliefs that clash with societal norms, then doing one of these actions (like drawing a cartoon or burning a book/flag) to prompt the reaction could be seen as valid. To censor your actions to protect peoples beliefs that do not fit in to your society will just kick the can down the road and lead to bigger problems, or a snowball effect.

Whatever violent action Muslims in Sweden take is illegal and they should be prosecuted.  I still feel that it's just rude.  

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Hugh Mungus
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Whatever violent action Muslims in Sweden take is illegal and they should be prosecuted.  I still feel that it's just rude.  

100% agree that it's rude. Fortunately in western society it is still legal to be rude. 

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OverSword
5 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

100% agree that it's rude. Fortunately in western society it is still legal to be rude. 

Or is it?

Quote

Later, three people were arrested on suspicion of inciting hatred against an ethnic group after kicking the Muslim holy book.

 

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odas
2 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

And if someone burnt an image of Thor i bet you wouldn't get violent about it.

Religious people are supposed to be forgiving, patient and virtuous. Like Christians are when presented with offensive material or imagery, i don't know why we should hold lower standards for less civilized religions. It seems racist to me to expect less from Muslims because they aren't white

Well, it is a bit racist cause I am white. And Muslim. And Handsome. Did I mention Handsome?

Anyway, action and reaction. Cause and effect. If they did not burn the others would not riot. If burning a Quran would not spark riots, the other idiots would be dumbfounded.

And the funny or sad thing about all that is that neither side does not know why they are doing it.

Stupidity has no race, nationality, religion.

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Hugh Mungus
12 minutes ago, odas said:

Well, it is a bit racist cause I am white. And Muslim. And Handsome. Did I mention Handsome?

Anyway, action and reaction. Cause and effect. If they did not burn the others would not riot. If burning a Quran would not spark riots, the other idiots would be dumbfounded.

And the funny or sad thing about all that is that neither side does not know why they are doing it.

Stupidity has no race, nationality, religion.

Cause and effect. When do you believe the Christians will riot after the many years of offensive materials they have been subjected to?

 

Would you riot if i burned a quran?

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third_eye
12 minutes ago, odas said:

Stupidity has no race, nationality, religion

...and neither does EVILNESS, did anyone mention evil? 

~

Quote
evilness - the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice; "attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world" evil. malevolency, malice, malevolence - the quality of threatening evil. malignance, malignancy, malignity - quality of being disposed to evil; intense ill will.

~

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TigerBright19

Remember when immigrants were processed at Ellis island and anyone with a foreign name that was too hard to spell or pronounce had their name officially changed to something more socially acceptable.  I don't see anyone burning down the historic building / museum or removing the statues and memorials gardens that were dedicated to the President, Mayor, or Governor who oversaw and green lighted the process because of their action or inaction at the time.  How far is today's generation willing to judge and possibly re-write the past with tunnel vision and condemn every living soul because they were benefiting from the racial policies at the time.  Wonder what future generations will see when they judge our current time.

 

 

Edited by TigerBright19

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itsnotoutthere
13 hours ago, Setton said:

If @and then goes out killing democrats, he will be breaking the laws of his country. So his opinions no longer count (by your ideas).

Or is there a cutoff? After X generations you can do what you like?

Er....yes exactly, if you go and kill someone you should be locked up away from civilized society and your opinion no longer count.  There is no cut off, you either abide by the law and be part of society or you don't, and be cut off from that society. Its already what we do.

I am unclear of the point you are trying to make with the above statement.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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Setton
25 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Er....yes exactly, if you go and kill someone you should be locked up away from civilized society and your opinion no longer count.  There is no cut off, you either abide by the law and be part of society or you don't, and be cut off from that society. Its already what we do.

I am unclear of the point you are trying to make with the above statement.

You said it was acceptable for @and then to make such threats because it is 'his country'.

Yet you say it is not acceptable for others to do the same because they originally came from somewhere else (as we all did).

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itsnotoutthere
5 minutes ago, Setton said:

You said it was acceptable for @and then to make such threats because it is 'his country'.

Yet you say it is not acceptable for others to do the same because they originally came from somewhere else (as we all did).

So you are actually making some kind of equivalence between @andthen making a few jokey comments on a forum like this and burning and rioting by the followers of islam?

I think even you can attest when the followers of islam makes threats people sit up and take notice.....with good reason.

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odas
17 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Cause and effect. When do you believe the Christians will riot after the many years of offensive materials they have been subjected to?

 

Would you riot if i burned a quran?

No. Why? My faith is with the message not with the book.

I cannot speak in the name of Christians but millions had to die in the past in order for Christianity to be more tolerant. 

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odas
17 hours ago, third_eye said:

...and neither does EVILNESS, did anyone mention evil? 

~

~

Spot on.

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Setton
6 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

So you are actually making some kind of equivalence between @andthen making a few jokey comments on a forum like this and burning and rioting by the followers of islam?

I think even you can attest when the followers of islam makes threats people sit up and take notice.....with good reason.

His threats are not remotely jokey.

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itsnotoutthere
15 hours ago, odas said:

No. Why? My faith is with the message not with the book.

I cannot speak in the name of Christians but millions had to die in the past in order for Christianity to be more tolerant. 

Yes, it was called the 'age of enlightenment' , and now we just need islam to catch up.

The Enlightenment, also known as the Age of Reason, was an intellectual and cultural movement in the eighteenth century that emphasized reason over superstition and science over blind faith. ... Many consider the Enlightenment a major turning point in Western civilization, an age of light replacing an age of darkness.

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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odas
14 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Yes, it was called the 'age of enlightenment' , and now we just need islam to catch up.

The Enlightenment, also known as the Age of Reason, was an intellectual and cultural movement in the eighteenth century that emphasized reason over superstition and science over blind faith. ... Many consider the Enlightenment a major turning point in Western civilization, an age of light replacing an age of darkness.

I agree. Have in mind that much of this enlightment was based or derived from Islam. Look up the Red Cross history, healthcare and yes, believe it or not, tolerance. And then 150 years ago something happened with Islam. Instead to go forward with the time as Islam narates it, to strive for better we went backwards. Islam is now corrupt in most places. Money and power has taken over. Just like Christianity before. I personnaly am done with Organised Islam. It is a **** show. We devide us, contrary to the message, in muslim groups, Shia, Sunni..whatever. We do not respect any other opinion, again, contrary to the Quran. But we riot when someone burns one? We, muslims, are the one who do the real damagge to the Quran and our faith, not the ones who burn it.

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