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Trump supporter shot and killed in Portland


Will Due

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10 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Either she is mistaken or it's okay to loot as a form of protest.

Some have already said as much.  Reparations, don'tchaknow?

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39 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Riot declared confirmation incoming...

It seems their plan is to cause as much chaos as possible prior to the election, THEN use mail-in ballots to meet the numbers they need to win.  This article makes a LOT of sense to me about where we are headed and there is NO doubt which side is to blame.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dinesh-dsouza-protests-riots-antifa-democrats 

From the piece:

 

"If the Democrats want to try the approach that's called 'license the criminal gangs and start setting fires to businesses' that's their model," the Indian Immigrant to America said. "Our model is peace and prosperity and commerce and civility -- then let people choose if they want to live in burned-out Milwaukee or burned out Portland, or if they'd much rather live in a nice Republican suburb where it's really nice and there's good stuff to be found in stores."

The media WILL eventually pay a price they think they are safe from.

 

Edited by and then
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16 hours ago, Lasso said:

Yes and when resisting arrest and not complying with officers instructions, then you are multiplying your risk for a bad outcome.  You can't even admit this man had control of the outcome by his choice of action alone.  Those resisting arrest, with violent felony charges on record, especially impede your call for 'natural justice.'  You keep bringing up a pad and a helmet as some 'Aussie' bravado.  You have probably never been in the situations these officers face daily in this climate of hatred and disrespect.  You'd probably shart your pants.

exactly....its really simple.....obey the law and don't resist.....

I really struggle to understand why people find this so difficult

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On 9/7/2020 at 3:45 AM, quillius said:

exactly....its really simple.....obey the law and don't resist.....

I really struggle to understand why people find this so difficult

It should be obvious by now, but if you haven't noticed Americans don't "Obey". 

Any solution for a problem that relies on that won't work.

 

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1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

It should be obvious by now, but if you haven't noticed Americans don't "Obey". 

Any solution for a problem that relies on that won't work.

 

following the law is one of the basics for any civilised society. I struggle to believe that Americans in general do not 'Obey' the law. 

I would also add that the 'obedience' is the problem rather than a facet of a solution. 

Saying 'any solution for a problem that relies on that' is implying that not obeying the law is not the problem that needs solving

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1 minute ago, quillius said:

following the law is one of the basics for any civilised society. I struggle to believe that Americans in general do not 'Obey' the law. 

I would also add that the 'obedience' is the problem rather than a facet of a solution. 

Saying 'any solution for a problem that relies on that' is implying that not obeying the law is not the problem that needs solving

I'd say you would have to come live here then to believe it.  If anything Americans are proud of their attempts to skirt the law- be it skipping paying taxes, not wearing masks, not serving people we dislike wedding cakes, etc. 

We even have the whole Second Amendment thing so we can rebel against the government if they get too uppity with their laws.

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14 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I'd say you would have to come live here then to believe it.  If anything Americans are proud of their attempts to skirt the law- be it skipping paying taxes, not wearing masks, not serving people we dislike wedding cakes, etc. 

We even have the whole Second Amendment thing so we can rebel against the government if they get too uppity with their laws.

The overwhelming majority of Americans follow the rule of law.   There are always exceptions and with 330 million people, those exceptions will seem like allot, but they are not.  

Outside of teenage friends, I have never known anyone who resisted arrest.  

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45 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I'd say you would have to come live here then to believe it.  If anything Americans are proud of their attempts to skirt the law- be it skipping paying taxes, not wearing masks, not serving people we dislike wedding cakes, etc. 

We even have the whole Second Amendment thing so we can rebel against the government if they get too uppity with their laws.

that is true I do not live there, I do however consider America a leading civilised nation, which in itself implies a majority do indeed follow the law.

Skipping taxes, not wearing masks and not serving wedding cake (:)) I do not consider major avoidance of law. Although I do appreciate not paying taxes is seen as and dealt with as a very serious crime.

In general I do not see people resisting arrest and the whole narrative that seems to be swallowed up that if you are  innocent then you are in danger of being killed by a police officer is non-sensical when applying the facts and statistics. The officer in such a case is at far greater risk than the individual, yet this illusion of fear that's being created pushes a reaction by individuals to not comply and it is the very thing that endangers them. 

 

edit to add; so I think the real problem is the narrative/false perception (cause) being pushed (mainly for political agendas) is the problem that needs solving which in turn solves the 'reaction' of people not obeying the law.

Edited by quillius
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On 9/6/2020 at 2:24 PM, Tatetopa said:

Neither. 

Are you suggesting that all people who protest for social change or justice are associated with thugs and common criminals because they were in the same place?

I am of the opinion that if protesters don't make an attempt to keep others marching with them from being violent and allow their protest to be hijacked then they are participants in the violence.

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31 minutes ago, Myles said:

The overwhelming majority of Americans follow the rule of law.   There are always exceptions and with 330 million people, those exceptions will seem like allot, but they are not.  

Outside of teenage friends, I have never known anyone who resisted arrest.  

We don't.  Look at out president- he routinely and publicly does law violations regularly.  Using other peoples music for his campaign rallies without permission or paying royalties for example.  Redirecting assets from his Foundation for personal use as another.   Or even the whole "Karen" thing. 

 

Ask Andthen or any Second Amendment person whether or not they will surrender their weapons if we made a law banning them.  They won't- Obedience is just not in an American's nature. 

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10 minutes ago, quillius said:

that is true I do not live there, I do however consider America a leading civilised nation, which in itself implies a majority do indeed follow the law.

Skipping taxes, not wearing masks and not serving wedding cake (:)) I do not consider major avoidance of law. Although I do appreciate not paying taxes is seen as and dealt with as a very serious crime.

In general I do not see people resisting arrest and the whole narrative that seems to be swallowed up that if you are  innocent then you are in danger of being killed by a police officer is non-sensical when applying the facts and statistics. The officer in such a case is at far greater risk than the individual, yet this illusion of fear that's being created pushes a reaction by individuals to not comply and it is the very thing that endangers them. 

 

edit to add; so I think the real problem is the narrative/false perception (cause) being pushed (mainly for political agendas) is the problem that needs solving which in turn solves the 'reaction' of people not obeying the law.

The whole not obeying thing is so ingrained in our Constitution and society that we (supposedly) have legal safeguards guaranteed by our Bill of Rights stopping cops from killing us.  It's those safeguards being ignored that is the cause of the riots. 

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1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

The whole not obeying thing is so ingrained in our Constitution and society that we (supposedly) have legal safeguards guaranteed by our Bill of Rights stopping cops from killing us.  It's those safeguards being ignored that is the cause of the riots. 

as I said I think the laws are also there to stop people killing cops and more importantly each other, yet there will be a small minority who break the law and an even smaller fraction of cops that also break the law....I think cops that do are such a small number that its insignificant in comparison to the 'real' problems killing people especially black youths......

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9 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I am of the opinion that if protesters don't make an attempt to keep others marching with them from being violent and allow their protest to be hijacked then they are participants in the violence.

The left feels the same way about Trump supporters and White Supremacists.  This is still going on: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/09/03/right-wing-groups-plan-more-trump-caravans-proud-boys-rally-for-portland/#7cd6b2801114

The last few killings involved Trump supporters as well.

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1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

The left feels the same way about Trump supporters and White Supremacists.  This is still going on: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/09/03/right-wing-groups-plan-more-trump-caravans-proud-boys-rally-for-portland/#7cd6b2801114

The last few killings involved Trump supporters as well.

Did I name a political affiliation or even specify current protesting?

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3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Did I name a political affiliation or even specify current protesting?

Very true.  I was merely agreeing with you, while pointing out a side that seems to be overlooked.

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1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

 

 

Ask Andthen or any Second Amendment person whether or not they will surrender their weapons if we made a law banning them.  They won't- Obedience is just not in an American's nature. 

That is somewhat true.   I think most would comply with the law.   Although I think many, like myself would hide some guns if they were confiscating them.   

I assume you see the rioters and looters in the same light, right?   Not obeying the laws.   

Even in all these cases, it isn't even close to the majority of Americans.   Unless of course you include people who go over the speed limit or jaywalk.  

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1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

We don't.  Look at out president- he routinely and publicly does law violations regularly.  Using other peoples music for his campaign rallies without permission or paying royalties for example.  Redirecting assets from his Foundation for personal use as another.   Or even the whole "Karen" thing. 

 

Ask Andthen or any Second Amendment person whether or not they will surrender their weapons if we made a law banning them.  They won't- Obedience is just not in an American's nature. 

You do not have to follow unconstitutional laws and banning guns would be unconstitutional.

If the we in your statement wants to accomplish this then by all means you're welcome to sponsor an amendment to the Constitution that allows it, otherwise.................

The same Constitution that guarantees your freedom of speech, freedom of religion or the rights of citizens to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures is the same Constitution that allows the right to bear arms.

The Bill of Rights isn't the government granting us these rights but limiting the power of the federal government from encroaching on these inalienable rights which are considered "natural rights".

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35 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

You do not have to follow unconstitutional laws and banning guns would be unconstitutional.

If the we in your statement wants to accomplish this then by all means you're welcome to sponsor an amendment to the Constitution that allows it, otherwise.................

The same Constitution that guarantees your freedom of speech, freedom of religion or the rights of citizens to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures is the same Constitution that allows the right to bear arms.

The Bill of Rights isn't the government granting us these rights but limiting the power of the federal government from encroaching on these inalienable rights which are considered "natural rights".

Exactly.  My point is that obedience is not the American way.  I merely used the gun control example because it is the easiest for people on this forum to understand and agree with. 

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https://www.foxnews.com/us/lara-logan-antifa-violence-political-entities

There is Marxist literature and philosophy that goes back to the 1920s in this country talking about how to use race and sow division and divide people in order to destroy this country and that’s exactly what’s happening right before our eyes.”

 

Edited by docyabut2
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20 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lara-logan-antifa-violence-political-entities

There is Marxist literature and philosophy that goes back to the 1920s in this country talking about how to use race and sow division and divide people in order to destroy this country and that’s exactly what’s happening right before our eyes.”

 

I don’t get a sense of “Marxist” anything in the United States. A wee bit of socialism, perhaps, but nothing like they have in Europe or Canada.

What’s happening is, The People are opening their eyes to inequality, and it’s a reasonable argument.

We’ve had racial tensions flareup since the 60’s, and we didn’t turn to communism.

No one is buying your argument of hocus-pocus nonsense, fed by real communists, and a delusion of the facts. You must be supporting the “I can’t lose unless it’s rigged candidate.”

The real communists will pay dearly when this election is over. 

Edited by Raptor Witness
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10 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I don’t get a sense of “Marxist” anything in the United States. A wee bit of socialism, perhaps, but nothing like they have in Europe or Canada.

What’s happening is, The People are opening their eyes to inequality, and it’s a reasonable argument.

We’ve had racial tensions flareup since the 60’s, and we didn’t turn to communism.

No one is buying your argument of hocus-pocus nonsense, fed by real communists, and a delusion of the facts. You must be supporting the “I can’t lose unless it’s rigged candidate.”

The real communists will pay dearly when this election is over. 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/communist-manifesto-history-of-socialism-marx-engels

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