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Eldorado

Charlie Hebdo to reprint Mohammed cartoons

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seanjo
5 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

The reason why printing an image of Mohammad is offensive is because to the Muslims an image cannot capture the divinity of their prophet. This means all images of him are a false representation, even a form of idolatry. Publishing the cartoons again will cause outrage amongst Muslims. Not just the extreme ones, but the regular ones too. It is one way in which there is an incompatibility between our western cultural values and Islam.

I have always maintained that some immigration is okay (obviously not mass immigration). It should be limited to an actual brain drain to fill skill gaps which actually exist. It should include people of interest like ex-KGB/FSB agents or political leaders fleeing internal problems. And the only time it should be increased beyond that is if there are a lot of refugees being generated by a neighbouring country or a country further a field if a situation emerges where we are the nearest safe place.

Refugees should later be returned when the problem has been dealt with. As for the brain drain and people of particular interest they need to be compatible with our western cultural values, or willing to change. If they are not willing too `when in Rome do as the Romans do` then it is a mistake allowing them in. We certainly shouldn`t be changing ourselves to make them happy. Its our country, they should be changing to fit in with us. If they wont then they need to find a different country to emigrate too.

Bingo, I've been saying this for years.

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Hugh Mungus
15 hours ago, Setton said:

Either you treat all religions equally or you don't. Those saying they should be allowed to offend Muslims because all religions should be treated equally are also among the first to say they should be allowed to discriminate against gay people because their religion tells them to.

So which is it? Does everyone have to follow the rules of all religions or should religion only extend to the individual who subscribes to it?

Hi Setton,

I may be a bit slow, but i cannot actually understand what your position is. Can you please answer these two questons?

Do you think it is ok to question/mock Christianity and Christians?

Do you think it is ok to question/mock Islam and Muslims?

 

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thedutchiedutch

What a great idea. Why not do something that is going to cause a reaction that could be at least to say, “problematic”, perhaps volatile or perhaps just plain negative. 
(SARCASM)

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thedutchiedutch
30 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

SORRY DOUBLE POST PLEASE DELETE

 

Edited by thedutchiedutch

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Hugh Mungus
17 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

What a great idea. Why not do something that is going to cause a reaction that could be at least to say, “problematic”, perhaps volatile or perhaps just plain negative. 
(SARCASM)

Are you saying that Muslim people aren't peaceful, can't take a joke and will react violently? Seems quite racist of you

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thedutchiedutch
5 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Are you saying that Muslim people aren't peaceful, can't take a joke and will react violently? Seems quite racist of you

What I am saying is that it is asking for trouble because of the reaction of some extremists. 

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Hugh Mungus
31 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

What I am saying is that it is asking for trouble because of the reaction of some extremists. 

So the problem is not the cartoons, but the Muslim extremists? Or are the extremists ok and the cartoons are the problem?

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Arbenol
44 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

What I am saying is that it is asking for trouble because of the reaction of some extremists. 

Then again, giving Islam a free pass (compared to the ridiculing that Christianity gets) because of the fear of that reaction is giving in to intimidation. 

It basically boils down to people self-censoring because they fear the threats of murderers.

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thedutchiedutch
31 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

So the problem is not the cartoons, but the Muslim extremists? Or are the extremists ok and the cartoons are the problem?

Well, for the muslim extremists, the cartoons are the problem obviously. For many others, the cartoons are ok I guess so it really depends on who you ask.

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thedutchiedutch
24 minutes ago, Arbenol said:

Then again, giving Islam a free pass (compared to the ridiculing that Christianity gets) because of the fear of that reaction is giving in to intimidation. 

It basically boils down to people self-censoring because they fear the threats of murderers.

Agreed. However, my point is why would you even put yourself in this situation when you know that the outcome could be deadly. Is it really worth it ? 
 

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Arbenol
17 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Agreed. However, my point is why would you even put yourself in this situation when you know that the outcome could be deadly. Is it really worth it ? 
 

I understand why they would. Sometimes the principle is the most important thing. If the press kowtow to threats and intimidation then their existence is irrelevant.

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Zaphod222
10 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

What I am saying is that it is asking for trouble because of the reaction of some extremists. 

Yes, but the "some extremists" determine your behaviour, i.e. make you shut up. By the same token, not all Nazi party members were SA, but it was the SA thugs that beat up critics and established dominance. The "peaceful majority" excuse that we often hear is is a copout.

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Zaphod222

Meanwhile, 66% of young French muslims want blasphemy laws. And seeing the demographic development, it will not take many decades before they are the absolute majority in France. The future of France is Sharia.

https://www.unz.com/gdurocher/poll-66-of-young-muslims-in-france-want-blasphemy-to-punished-by-law/

 

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Big Jim

Perhaps if Christians would start blowing up media headquarters and sending assassination squads after offenders they could get the same deference that the Muslims have created for themselves.  We defend free speech to the point of accepting burning buildings as collateral damage, but some would prohibit the publication of cartoons because it may offend Muslims.  It's cartoons!  A few pages in a magazine and people were killed for it.  The last I heard, humor was still legal, even in France.  But killing people is not.  Charlie Hebdo would be within their rights to raise billboards of those cartoons all over town, while any threat of violence should be dealt with severely.

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Zaphod222
13 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Perhaps if Christians would start blowing up media headquarters and sending assassination squads after offenders they could get the same deference that the Muslims have created for themselves.  

Yep, might makes right. Like Osama bin Ladin said: When people see a strong horse, and a weak horse, they bet on the strong horse.

Western liberal idealism might work with the wishy-washy, touchy-feely feminized populations of the West, but faced with solid islamic determination and violence, our politicians crumble like cardboard.

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Rlyeh
6 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Perhaps if Christians would start blowing up media headquarters and sending assassination squads after offenders they could get the same deference that the Muslims have created for themselves.  We defend free speech to the point of accepting burning buildings as collateral damage, but some would prohibit the publication of cartoons because it may offend Muslims.  It's cartoons!  A few pages in a magazine and people were killed for it.  The last I heard, humor was still legal, even in France.  But killing people is not.  Charlie Hebdo would be within their rights to raise billboards of those cartoons all over town, while any threat of violence should be dealt with severely.

Well they use to burn people to the stake.

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seanjo
19 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

What I am saying is that it is asking for trouble because of the reaction of some extremists. 

So bow down to extremists?

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Big Jim
2 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Well they use to burn people to the stake.

You are correct, but how does that pertain to the current discussion?

 

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TigerBright19

A few years ago I tested a theory that only Christianity is allowed to be mocked.  So I did an experiment and uploaded 4 pictures on various forums.  Each picture mocked Christianity, Islam, Jews, Ethnic minorities.  Of course there was no surprise what happened.  All of the pictures were removed by the moderators except for the picture that mocked Christianity.  No surprise at all.  Same with TV and radio unfortunately.  It seems it is really common knowledge that Christianity is the core subject of mockery and has been for years, but nobody actually cares.  It seems that promoting everything that is against Christianity is more important.  The only time we will probably get to see this issue addressed is during an episode of 'Horrible Histories' when they eventually cover the 2000 - 2020's.

Well, maybe not if the BBC are running the show.

 

Edited by TigerBright19
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thedutchiedutch
3 hours ago, seanjo said:

So bow down to extremists?

No, I am not saying that I am simply questioning if it is worth it.

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seanjo
1 minute ago, thedutchiedutch said:

No, I am not saying that I am simply questioning if it is worth it.

Yes. It's worth it...

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thedutchiedutch
12 hours ago, Zaphod222 said:

Yes, but the "some extremists" determine your behaviour, i.e. make you shut up. By the same token, not all Nazi party members were SA, but it was the SA thugs that beat up critics and established dominance. The "peaceful majority" excuse that we often hear is is a copout.

I agree. But cop out or not, my point is, is it worth it. Not an excuse but just an obversation.

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thedutchiedutch
2 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Yes. It's worth it...

OK. For you it is. For me not so much. 

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seanjo
5 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

OK. For you it is. For me not so much. 

Appeasement never works...enjoy Sharia when it comes...

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thedutchiedutch
14 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Appeasement never works...enjoy Sharia when it comes...

Thanks for the warning :tsu:

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