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Kosovo and Serbia Sign with Trump


TrumanB

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https://balkaninsight.com/2020/09/04/kosovo-and-serbia-sign-historic-deal-under-trumps-auspices/

What is behind this I'm wondering. Is Vučić recognizing the independence of Kosovo in a subtle manner or this is just a document about some boring economic stuff.

For those interested in body language check Serbian delegation on the picture and then compare it with Kosovo Albanian ( here is an another one ).

What do you think if this is going to impact Trump's rating in forthcoming elections? He wouldn't receive  them in Oval room if he didn't think that it matters.

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10 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

What do you think if this is going to impact Trump's rating in forthcoming elections?

He could cure all cancers and bring world peace and those who hate him now would continue to hate him.  It really IS a spiritual sickness.   The Bible has scriptures concerning a peace that will come between Israel and "many".  If this turns out to be the beginning of THAT, then this party is just getting started.  The great irony I've seen in this latest attempt at peace in the M.E. is that Obama made it all possible when he attempted to make Iran the Hegemon in the M.E.  The Arab states realize they have FAR more to fear from Iran than from Israel.  Funny how that worked out for Barry, innit?

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Hmmm...let's stick to the topic. :D

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Most likely but there may be some circles that will consider this as a good move by Trump. Otherwise, why would they be accepted on such a high level?

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32 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

Hmmm...let's stick to the topic. :D

Heard and understood :)   I hope this is the beginning of a change for the better.

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This is great :tu:.

But yeah I doubt anyone will even pay attention.

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8 hours ago, and then said:

He could cure all cancers and bring world peace and those who hate him now would continue to hate him.  It really IS a spiritual sickness.

I rather see it as a demonstration of the power of the media. The gullibles who uncritically consumer what CNN, BBC, NYT, Guardian, Independent, Huffpost, Salon etc etc feed them naturally think that the orange hitler is evil, whatever he does. The media have whipped the gullible part of the population in a state of derangement that is pretty scary.

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Trump is doing the best he can to somehow improve the situation created by disastrous policies of Bill Clinton, who illegally interfered in Serbian politics, playing airforce for a terrorist organization. "Kosovo" as a state is a joke and should never have come into existance. But you have deal with the cards that your criminal predecessors left you.

 

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31 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I wonder what my good friend @Helen of Annoy will say?

Serbia still doesn't recognize Kosovo, which means nothing happened and this "event" had purely propaganda value, and that value exists only for those who doesn't understand Kosovo situation.

Trump, with his used car salesman attitude may paint this as something important, but it's not. It's literally nothing. It's two countries, each with complicated and bloody history, having to agree on things they cannot possibly make any concessions about. A ceremonial agreement on things that work anyway already and won't make other things miraculously start working doesn't change anything. 

Kosovo situation requires superhuman patience and very careful, little steps, that cannot be made over graves. Graves must be honoured. Nations in this part of the world do not sell their identities. Which is why only those who understand that mindset can dream of being helpful in any real normalization processes (not negotiations, mind you, history is not negotiable). 

 

The only interesting thing was the funny fact that Trump was given another very pro-Russian politician to assist him in making another worthless show.  And his cult will wonder why, oh, why everyone sane is laughing at Trump's strings being pulled by Putin. This charade is a good example too.   

 

So I'm actually a bit angry because the last thing my neighbours need is misusing their extremely sensitive issues by people who neither care nor understand what they're doing. 

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9 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Serbia still doesn't recognize Kosovo, which means nothing happened and this "event" had purely propaganda value, and that value exists only for those who doesn't understand Kosovo situation.

 

Oh I don't know @Helen of Annoy. The leaders of the two countries have undertaken to seek "economic normalisation", among other steps. That sounds like recognition to ME ? 

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10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Oh I don't know @Helen of Annoy. The leaders of the two countries have undertaken to seek "economic normalisation", among other steps. That sounds like recognition to ME ? 

It sounds like diplomatic phrase that means "no progress possible at the moment, but it's not like we're moving the units right now". 

The good news is that there's no news.

The bad news is that there are real, living people both in Serbia and Kosovo who could use some lasting, certain peace and real economic cooperation and such charades only make extremists nervous because they may be interpreted as letting the other side have something.

(Both Vučić and Hoti have to use any chance for making it look like they've achieved something for their nation, and both are not in the position to refuse any invitation to any agreements, no matter how humiliatingly devoid of real impact they are. Both will have problems at home explaining what they've achieved at what price. But they couldn't refuse so this is another heap of problems for others, caused with Trump's desperate need to seem like he can do something. He can do only one thing and that one thing is damage.)

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19 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It sounds like diplomatic phrase that means "no progress possible at the moment, but it's not like we're moving the units right now". 

The good news is that there's no news.

The bad news is that there are real, living people both in Serbia and Kosovo who could use some lasting, certain peace and real economic cooperation and such charades only make extremists nervous because they may be interpreted as letting the other side have something.

(Both Vučić and Hoti have to use any chance for making it look like they've achieved something for their nation, and both are not in the position to refuse any invitation to any agreements, no matter how humiliatingly devoid of real impact they are. Both will have problems at home explaining what they've achieved at what price. But they couldn't refuse so this is another heap of problems for others, caused with Trump's desperate need to seem like he can do something. He can do only one thing and that one thing is damage.)

Why are you characterising this as a charade ? If Angela Merkel had brokered it, instead of Donald Trump, would you be hailing it as a success ? 

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1 hour ago, Zaphod222 said:

Trump is doing the best he can to somehow improve the situation created by disastrous policies of Bill Clinton, who illegally interfered in Serbian politics, playing airforce for a terrorist organization. "Kosovo" as a state is a joke and should never have come into existance. But you have deal with the cards that your criminal predecessors left you.

 

 

re bolded..... like Obama (Cameron and Sarkozy) did in Libya.... 

This article is very educational on that whole horrible and confused situation.... when our very own war monger Tony Blair teamed up with Bill Clinton to bomb Serbia from a great height -

I have only recently started to understand a bit of what went on and I doubt the British General Public will ever know what their taxes helped to pay for..

It's all looking like the hidden history of the Globalist, One World Government Agenda... that many Western Leaders have been covertly maneuvering towards for decades - until Trump - and we see how he has been treated for not falling into line... and taking a more diplomatic path... and not using the American Military as a proxy army for the wannabe dictator Globalists... 

    

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/03/24/killing-credibility-look-back-1999-nato-air-war-serbia

From 1992 to 1995, the Pentagon flew thousands of al-Qaeda mujahideen, often accompanied by US Special Forces, from Central Asia to Europe to reinforce Bosnian Muslims as they fought Serbs to gain their independence from the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The Clinton administration armed and trained these fighters in flagrant violation of United Nations accords; weapons purchased by Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iran were secretly shipped to the jihadists via Croatia, which netted a hefty profit from each transaction. The official Dutch inquiry into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, in which thousands of Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) men and boys were  slaughtered by Bosnian Serb and Serbian paramilitary forces, concluded that the United States was “very closely involved” in these arms transfers.

When the Bosnian war ended in 1995 the United States was faced with the problem of thousands of Islamist warriors on European soil. Many of them joined the burgeoning Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), which mainly consisted of ethnic Albanian Kosovars from what was still southwestern Yugoslavia. Emboldened by the success of the Slovenes, Croats, Macedonians and Bosnians who had won their independence from Belgrade as Yugoslavia literally balkanized, KLA fighters began to violently expel as many non-Albanians from Kosovo as they could. Roma, Jews, Turks and, above all, Serbs were all victims of Albanian ethnic cleansing.

 

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What is interesting is that they brought Israel and 5G in this agreement. Israel will accept the independence of Kosovo and Serbia is forbidden to buy Chinese 5g technology and obliges to move embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv. So basically Trump added some things that are in American interest here and that have nothing with Serbia-Kosovo relationship. European Union won't be happy as their stand is that Tel Aviv is Israel's capital. And we are candidate for joining EU.

Edited by TrumanB
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12 hours ago, TrumanB said:

https://balkaninsight.com/2020/09/04/kosovo-and-serbia-sign-historic-deal-under-trumps-auspices/

What is behind this I'm wondering. Is Vučić recognizing the independence of Kosovo in a subtle manner or this is just a document about some boring economic stuff.

For those interested in body language check Serbian delegation on the picture and then compare it with Kosovo Albanian ( here is an another one ).

What do you think if this is going to impact Trump's rating in forthcoming elections? He wouldn't receive  them in Oval room if he didn't think that it matters.

Trump starting to ramp up the case for a Nobel Peace Price.

I await more lefty tears.

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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It sounds like diplomatic phrase that means "no progress possible at the moment, but it's not like we're moving the units right now". 

The good news is that there's no news.

The bad news is that there are real, living people both in Serbia and Kosovo who could use some lasting, certain peace and real economic cooperation and such charades only make extremists nervous because they may be interpreted as letting the other side have something.

(Both Vučić and Hoti have to use any chance for making it look like they've achieved something for their nation, and both are not in the position to refuse any invitation to any agreements, no matter how humiliatingly devoid of real impact they are. Both will have problems at home explaining what they've achieved at what price. But they couldn't refuse so this is another heap of problems for others, caused with Trump's desperate need to seem like he can do something. He can do only one thing and that one thing is damage.)

It would be justified Karma if Trump ends up sorting out your area of the woods.

And you then have to watch him get the Nobel Peace price and admit, oh come on you know you want to admit, that he did a good job!!! lol.

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2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Oh I don't know @Helen of Annoy. The leaders of the two countries have undertaken to seek "economic normalisation", among other steps. That sounds like recognition to ME ? 

Yes, it's unofficial recognitition. Serbian president Vučić most likely got support from USA based on promise to recognize independence of Kosovo. To me this is next step in this direction.

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3 hours ago, Zaphod222 said:

Trump is doing the best he can to somehow improve the situation created by disastrous policies of Bill Clinton, who illegally interfered in Serbian politics, playing airforce for a terrorist organization. "Kosovo" as a state is a joke and should never have come into existance. But you have deal with the cards that your criminal predecessors left you.

 

There is a lot of truth in this although Milošević did some things to Albanians that I'm not proud of. So the truth is somewhere in the grey zone. It's not black an white in no one's favour.

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22 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

There is a lot of truth in this although Milošević did some things to Albanians that I'm not proud of. So the truth is somewhere in the grey zone. It's not black an white in no one's favour.

I am no fan of Milosevic, but whatever he did does not justify the illegal and reckless destruction of Serbia and creation of the Kosovo terrorist state by Bill Clinton.

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30 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Trump starting to ramp up the case for a Nobel Peace Price.

I await more lefty tears.

Oh man, would that not be something, to see the heads on fire among the regressive left.

However, seeing the political orientation of the Nobel comittee I say there is a snowflakes chance in hell.

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8 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

Oh man, would that not be something, to see the heads on fire among the regressive left.

However, seeing the political orientation of the Nobel comittee I say there is a snowflakes chance in hell.

Talking about right vs. left do you know who was the most destructive US president, even more than Bill Clinton? I'll help you...one right-winged Republican. ;)

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14 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

I am no fan of Milosevic, but whatever he did does not justify the illegal and reckless destruction of Serbia and creation of the Kosovo terrorist state by Bill Clinton.

I know, I'm from there. I certainly won't justify Clinton and Blair who bled his hands again in Middle East.

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2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Why are you characterising this as a charade ? If Angela Merkel had brokered it, instead of Donald Trump, would you be hailing it as a success ? 

Nothing was "brokered" here and those who think it can be "brokered" are the source of additional problems. 

 

If Angela Merkel was coordinating diplomatic effort (which this charade wasn't) that resulted in an actual agreement between Serbia and Kosovo, it would have substance. 

 

You see, sane people are not disgusted with Trump because they're under some sort of lefty spell, they're disgusted because that guy is doing damage everywhere and it might cause serious trouble. Even more serious than the disintegration of the US. 

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