Kosovo and Serbia Sign with Trump

[Zaphod222]

Just now, TrumanB said:

Talking about right vs. left do you know who was the most destructive US president, even more than Bill Clinton? I'll help you...one right-winged Republican.

It is hard decide who is the most destructive; the US has a long history of making historical mistakes. Also, I do not find the labels "right-wing" and "left-wing" convincing. Currently, the so-called "left-wing" has embraced all the things the traditional "right-wing" used to stand for.... authoritarianism, censorship, speech control. As for the political parties, I see the party establishments of both as one uni-party, the party of war. Outsiders in both parties are hated by the party establishments. So I am not sure what you are getting at with your comment.

[TrumanB]

Just now, Zaphod222 said:

It is hard decide who is the most destructive; the US has a long history of making historical mistakes. Also, I do not find the labels "right-wing" and "left-wing" convincing. Currently, the so-called "left-wing" has embraced all the things the traditional "right-wing" used to stand for.... authoritarianism, censorship, speech control. As for the political parties, I see the party establishments of both as one uni-party, the party of war. Outsiders in both parties are hated by the party establishments. So I am not sure what you are getting at with your comment.

Well, the answer is not hard. It's George W. Bush. Aroun 2m people died on M.E. because of his destructive politics, 200 000 children among them.

[Zaphod222]

Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

You see, sane people are not disgusted with Trump because they're under some sort of lefty spell, they're disgusted because that guy is doing damage everywhere and it might cause serious trouble. Even more serious than the disintegration of the US. 

Wish it was so. What I see in reality is the former (the lefty spell, aka the TDS) and not the latter.

Conversely, the people who support Trump that I know (myself included) do not do so because they are under some kind of spell (actually, I find the guy quite often quite annoying) but because they agree with the policy platform.

And to remind you again: Trump has NOT started a new stupid foreign war and is working to wind down the existing ones. That counts for nothing?

[Zaphod222]

Just now, TrumanB said:

Well, the answer is not hard. It's George W. Bush. Aroun 2m people died on M.E. because of his destructive politics, 200 000 children among them.

I am no friend of GW Bush, but he too dealt with the hand he was handed. Afaic, already the first Iraq war (by Bush Sr) was a mistake. If Saddam had annexed the Wahabi kingdom in the South, would the world be worse off for that?

And if you really want to go deep into the rabbit hole, consider Ronald Reagon, who supplied Stinger missiles the Mujaheddin. That was a shot in the arm for the international Jihad that the world has never recovered from. So, how deep do you want to go?

[Duke Wellington]

44 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

Oh man, would that not be something, to see the heads on fire among the regressive left.

However, seeing the political orientation of the Nobel comittee I say there is a snowflakes chance in hell.

They best or he will defund them lol

[Zaphod222]

Just now, Cookie Monster said:

They best or he will defund them lol

I dont think he is funding them, is he?

[Helen of Annoy]

35 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

Wish it was so. What I see in reality is the former (the lefty spell, aka the TDS) and not the latter.

Conversely, the people who support Trump that I know (myself included) do not do so because they are under some kind of spell (actually, I find the guy quite often quite annoying) but because they agree with the policy platform.

And to remind you again: Trump has NOT started a new stupid foreign war and is working to wind down the existing ones. That counts for nothing?

Trump is only doing that, what Putin orders him to do. 

Of course he's trying to make the US withdraw from any position Russia finds irritable. The only war Putin will allow him to start is the one on the US soil. As you can see from the news. 

 

The unforgettably bizarrely childish public betrayal of NATO by Trump was the ultimate proof of his allegiance. He's got no geopolitical opinion of his own, out of two reasons: firstly, he has no intellectual capacity to think about geopolitics and secondly, Russians have him by the *****.    

 

Regarding Kosovo, so far, so good, nothing serious was broken, but if Trump keeps "helping", creating more chaos in already messy situation, I think it could escalate in another open conflict (which would damage pro-European integration efforts and advance pro-Putin interests).  

[Zaphod222]

Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

Trump is only doing that, what Putin orders him to do. 

Of course he's trying to make the US withdraw from any position Russia finds irritable. The only war Putin will allow him to start is the one on the US soil. As you can see from the news. 

That is an empty media talking point. What "damage" specifically has he done in your mind?

And again, stopping the stupid illegal foreign wars is not important for your?

[Helen of Annoy]

6 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

That is an empty media talking point. What "damage" specifically has he done in your mind?

And again, stopping the stupid illegal foreign wars is not important for your?

Not every American intervention was illegal or wrong. The 1990's intervention in the ex-Yu meant that Serbia will have to sit down and negotiate instead of lob another batch of grenades on me personally. 

And I personally had every right to refuse to be governed by that piece of pig-snouted ****, called Milošević. 

The intervention was due to imminent genocide of Albanians in Kosovo but it had strong impact on Milošević's will for further aggression in the neighbourhood.

So when you harp against Clinton in the context of the ex-Yu, all I hear is that I had to die so your pet dictator could slaughter happily ever after.  

[Duke Wellington]

50 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Trump is only doing that, what Putin orders him to do. 

Of course he's trying to make the US withdraw from any position Russia finds irritable. The only war Putin will allow him to start is the one on the US soil. As you can see from the news. 

The unforgettably bizarrely childish public betrayal of NATO by Trump was the ultimate proof of his allegiance. He's got no geopolitical opinion of his own, out of two reasons: firstly, he has no intellectual capacity to think about geopolitics and secondly, Russians have him by the *****.    

Regarding Kosovo, so far, so good, nothing serious was broken, but if Trump keeps "helping", creating more chaos in already messy situation, I think it could escalate in another open conflict (which would damage pro-European integration efforts and advance pro-Putin interests).  

What is really impressive are the mental gymnastics you must be going through to uphold your views on Trump. Its incredible, truly remarkable, and I feel you deserve some kind of special award for it.

[Grim Reaper 6]

52 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

That is an empty media talking point. What "damage" specifically has he done in your mind?

And again, stopping the stupid illegal foreign wars is not important for your?

Where are you coming from, she lives in that part of the world. While you may be amazed to hear this, I suspect she knows much more about the Foreign Policy of that region than you do. Instead of arguing with her you may actually learn something useful if you ask questions and listen to her answers

[Duke Wellington]

Its just a case of the media say Mr Orange is bad so he must be bad.

No evidence required.

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

What is really impressive are the mental gymnastics you must be going through to uphold your views on Trump. Its incredible, truly remarkable, and I feel you deserve some kind of special award for it.

What truly is remarkable is that she lives in that region, and here is some British Citizen trying to tell her, how good an American Presidents meddling in the affairs of countries you know nothing about will be good for those who live there. Who are you, where do you get your useless information from. While Trump puts his stamp on this so called peace mission, if you listen closely you can hear Putins heavy breathing in the back ground. 

 

[Duke Wellington]

11 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

What truly is remarkable is that she lives in that region, and here is some British Citizen trying to tell her, how good an American Presidents meddling in the affairs of countries you know nothing about will be good for those who live there. Who are you, where do you get your useless information from. While Trump puts his stamp on this so called peace mission, if you listen closely you can hear Putins heavy breathing in the back ground. 

 

You are arguing against Serbia and Kosovo being at peace with each other and building a working relationship.

Like it has been pointed out, if it was Merkel doing this then she would be getting praise. But for no other reason than its Mr Orange then it must be a bad thing. Back here on planet Earth most of us can evaluate a US President fairly and objectively. We do that based on evidence, logic, and facts. Not media hearsay, emotions, and hysteria.

You are both funny and entertaining to us though, even if from your perspective you are deadly serious.

[odas]

23 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You are arguing against Serbia and Kosovo being at peace with each other and building a working relationship.

Like it has been pointed out, if it was Merkel doing this then she would be getting praise. But for no other reason than its Mr Orange then it must be a bad thing. Back here on planet Earth most of us can evaluate a US President fairly and objectively. We do that based on evidence, logic, and facts. Not media hearsay, emotions, and hysteria.

You are both funny and entertaining to us though, even if from your perspective you are deadly serious.

Serbia and Kosovo at peace is only possible when Kosovo is completely a part of Serbia and ruled by serbs. To blame Clinton for something that is disputed since 1000 years is nonsens. Kosovo Albanians were systematicly killed by Serbs since before Clinton was born.

Of course, Cookie M, as usual, claims to have more knowledge and experience when it comes to the balkans. Oh well.

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You are arguing against Serbia and Kosovo being at peace with each other and building a working relationship.

Like it has been pointed out, if it was Merkel doing this then she would be getting praise. But for no other reason than its Mr Orange then it must be a bad thing. Back here on planet Earth most of us can evaluate a US President fairly and objectively. We do that based on evidence, logic, and facts. Not media hearsay, emotions, and hysteria.

You are both funny and entertaining to us though, even if from your perspective you are deadly serious.

What's funny is you, Always trying to inject your commentary on those who are outside you realm of reality. But, today after discussing things with a friend I finally realized why you post in threads that you no nothing about. I went back and read through threads concerning the UK you posted in and I found out that your own countrymen don't agree with what you say. So you try to impress foreigners with your knowledge and wisdom because you can't do so with your own countrymen. That's is really sad, if I had known you were lonely I would not have every given you a hard time.

I don't even take offense when you make comments about my military service, because someone like you again has no experience with such matters. I hope you wake up, because the warning signs are there, and your headed down a path of no return.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, odas said:

Serbia and Kosovo at peace is only possible when Kosovo is completely a part of Serbia and ruled by serbs. To blame Clinton for something that is disputed since 1000 years is nonsens. Kosovo Albanians were systematicly killed by Serbs since before Clinton was born.

Of course, Cookie M, as usual, claims to have more knowledge and experience when it comes to the balkans. Oh well.

He isn't worth it, but maybe if he listened to you and Helen he could learn something in stead of being a Cookie Monster with dirty hands!

[Duke Wellington]

7 minutes ago, odas said:

Serbia and Kosovo at peace is only possible when Kosovo is completely a part of Serbia and ruled by serbs. To blame Clinton for something that is disputed since 1000 years is nonsens. Kosovo Albanians were systematicly killed by Serbs since before Clinton was born.

Of course, Cookie M, as usual, claims to have more knowledge and experience when it comes to the balkans. Oh well.

I dont know why you are adding in Clinton.

Look, Serbia, Kosovo, Croatia, Albania, Bosnia, and everything else around there, are potential candidates for EU and NATO membership (for those who arent already in). That means they need to get you being at least cordial with each other and trading with each other. We dont want you lot to start fighting again and cause problems for the EU or NATO.

While us Brits are leaving the EU then you are still Western Civilization and it impacts both us and the USA if war happens again. We desire stable trading partners and stable alliance members. You guys seem to be trapped in the era where Yugoslavia broke up, and you want to see things in those terms.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, odas said:

Serbia and Kosovo at peace is only possible when Kosovo is completely a part of Serbia and ruled by serbs.

Oh dear God, so it's basically another Israel/Palestine situation.

Humans are ****en dumb. 

[Helen of Annoy]

20 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Oh dear God, so it's basically another Israel/Palestine situation.

Humans are ****en dumb. 

Doesn't have to be. 

I mean, humans are ****ing dumb, that has to be, but Kosovo doesn't have to be another Palestine. 

It just depends on how long this pro-Putinesque muddying of the waters will last and will it trigger another war or not. 

The goal of pro-Putin compost heap of politicians (that includes Trump) is to keep Serbia a torn in the EU side and if possible recreate open conflict in Kosovo. Because that is supposed to damage relations in the south-east Europe, prevent any further joining to the EU and also reward pro-Russian politicians with hostile atmosphere, essential to the survival of various "populist", neo- and quasi-Nazi political options.  

Of course, Trump doesn't understand that, it's way beyond his abilities, or scope. All he cares for is that he was given that bizarre move of Serbian embassy to show to his Evangelical base as some sort of proof that he can do something, he found Serbia to help them coax that Jesus into second coming.

It's so very, very ridiculous.  

[Zaphod222]

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Not every American intervention was illegal or wrong. The 1990's intervention in the ex-Yu meant that Serbia will have to sit down and negotiate instead of lob another batch of grenades on me personally. 

And I personally had every right to refuse to be governed by that piece of pig-snouted ****, called Milošević. 

The intervention was due to imminent genocide of Albanians in Kosovo but it had strong impact on Milošević's will for further aggression in the neighbourhood.

Oh boy, You swallowed the warmongering propaganda then, so no surprise you swallow it now.

I bet at the time of Clintons illegal bombing, you were watching the BBC and reading the Guardian, but never any independent sources.

And you still did not answer what "damage" specifically the evil Trump has done. It is a long wait....

Edited September 5, 2020 by Zaphod222

[Helen of Annoy]

4 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

Oh boy, You swallowed the warmongering propaganda then, so no surprise you swallow it now.

I suppose at the time of Clintons illegal bombing, you were watching the BBC and reading the Guardian, but never any independent sources. Figures.

At the time of American intervention, very much approved in my country, I was in my country, watching my, Croatian television, that airs from the building that was repeatedly attacked by Serbian aviation. I read my, Croatian newspapers and I still remember how chilling it was when one morning newspapers couldn't arrive to my town, because we were ****ing cut off by ****ing ex-Yu army, whose resources were illegally seized by Milošević's goons and used against civilians with ethnic cleansing intentions. 

You seem to be oblivious of the fact that you're talking to a person who lives in one of the countries involved. You seem to be oblivious of the fact that you dare lecture me on my war. 

Could you please not do that? It's bizarre. 

[Zaphod222]

Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

At the time of American intervention, very much approved in my country, I was in my country, watching my, Croatian television, that airs from the building that was repeatedly attacked by Serbian aviation. I read my, Croatian newspapers and I still remember how chilling it was when one morning newspapers couldn't arrive to my town, because we were ****ing cut off by ****ing ex-Yu army, whose resources were illegally seized by Milošević's goons and used against civilians with ethnic cleansing intentions. 

You seem to be oblivious of the fact that you're talking to a person who lives in one of the countries involved. You seem to be oblivious of the fact that you dare lecture me on my war. 

Could you please not do that? It's bizarre. 

Oh, you are Croatian? Yeah, sure that would make you unbiased against Serbia. Can you tell us something about what the nice Croatian liberators did to the Serbian population of the Krajina, or was that not a big topic on Croation TV?

That Clinton set an example by playing airforce for an islamist terrorist group in Kosovo and helped set up a terrorist mini-state in Kosovo will come back to bite you too.

Meanwhile, I am still waiting to hear what "damage" specifically Trump has done. Is Croation TV sparse on that too?

[Helen of Annoy]

32 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

Oh, you are Croatian? Yeah, sure that would make you unbiased against Serbia. Can you tell us something about what the nice Croatian liberators did to the Serbian population of the Krajina, or was that not a big topic on Croation TV?

That Clinton set an example by playing airforce for an islamist terrorist group in Kosovo and helped set up a terrorist mini-state in Kosovo will come back to bite you too.

Meanwhile, I am still waiting to hear what "damage" specifically Trump has done. Is Croation TV sparse on that too?

Calm down, neighbour. Everyone who wanted to stay in Krajina stayed, except those who were forced to evacuate by Martić and his extraordinary panicky order. And the tanks that crushed civilians were Serbian, crushing living people in extraordinary panicky retreat. It would be hilarious if it wasn't horrible and soulbreaking sad. 

You will like to know what I was reading when he fired retaliatory cluster bombs on Zagreb. Well, I wasn't reading at all, because I happened to be in Zagreb at that time of the year, so I had more urgent things to do. 

 

Your Trump is cheerleading for Putin. That's all he ever does. When he's childishly clumsy trying to dismantle NATO, when he's instigating racial hatred in own country, when he's forcing poor Vučić to act like Serbia has turned Evangelical   That one's too precious    

Edited September 5, 2020 by Helen of Annoy
To clarify: instigating race war in the US in the main damage Trump has done so far.

[Zaphod222]

15 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Your Trump is cheerleading for Putin. That's all he ever does. When he's childishly clumsy trying to dismantle NATO, when he's instigating racial hatred in own country, when he's forcing poor Vučić to act like Serbia has turned Evangelical   That one's too precious    

You claimed Trump is doing "damage", yet you have not provided any examples for that.

Your claim that Trump is cheerleading for Putin is ridiculous. Trump, for example, keeps sanctions on Russia, has supplied weapons to the Ukraine, is holding military maneuvers in Poland, and has been obstructing Nordstream 2. None which is in Putins interest (and none of which I approve of, but never mind.) The Russia hoax is an invention by the Clinton campaign and the Western media.

Now again: What "damage" were you talking about?