Kosovo and Serbia Sign with Trump

[Duke Wellington]

34 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I don't hate the poor guy. I find him absurdly ridiculous and thoroughly repulsive but I'm aware he's just a pawn in immensely more capable hands. 

This latest hilarious catastrophe he managed to produce might even accidentally result in positive changes for this part of the world. Due to the very visible fact that Vučić was essentially tricked into signing something he didn't know he's signing, all the remnants of American credibility are irreparably destroyed in this part of the world. It means turning to the EU for mediating European problems, without any further possibility that some naive soul will take American meddling seriously. 

You've died diplomatic death at the moment Vučić started panicky digging through papers, wondering is he the first in history to be defrauded while signing an international agreement. Yes, he is. No shame on his part, it all belongs to the fraudster Trump.  

Actually I dont think he is.

I think the peace between Serbia and Kosovo was done with the same trick. Write the agreement, sneak in a couple of things they wont agree too, then create a sense of urgency to sign it before its read. Then threaten them when they find out that if they dont uphold the agreement they signed then the Americans are coming lol.

Looks like Trump just did it on Vucic.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[Helen of Annoy]

6 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

I actually don't have a bad opinion of Albanians from Albania. They are mostly friendly and open. And they speak italian which I like a lot. Albanians from Kosovo are a bit different ( they origin from a different tribe than those from Albania and Montenegro ). But whatever that I think of them their political agenda is called Greater Albania. That's Rama's agenda. Not sure that I understand these two points. Based on information that I have from Brussels Serbia will never become EU member. Recognizing Kosovo won't change that. Only guarantees that Serbs won't be discriminated is not enough.

Serbia will become EU member. Just wait for certain old imperialist horse to stop kicking and die (as an imperialist factor) already. 

There are other factors too, of course, but both Serbia and Kosovo will be EU members. Without real border, with common goals and equal rights. Because such future is very possible, even while we're still alive, all the deaths today seem like even greater sin/stupidity. 

 

[TrumanB]

16 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Serbia will become EU member. Just wait for certain old imperialist horse to stop kicking and die (as an imperialist factor) already. 

 

I know a guy who has a company and went to EU parliament for some meetings. They clearly told him - Serbia and BiH will never join EU. From what he said to me they don't like Serbs and muslims and don't want us there. It's not politically correct to speak it loud but they were honest to him unofficialy during breaks. And Kosovo will also never become a member because they know what kind of business they do there. Also considering that EU now has their own problems...chances even get smaller. We will have 'eternal' status as Turkey. It has nothing to do with US if you are pointing in that direction.

Edited September 6, 2020 by TrumanB

[Helen of Annoy]

24 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

I know a guy who has a company and went to EU parlament for some meetings. They clearly told him - Serbia and BiH will never join EU. From what he said to me they don't like Serbs and muslims and don't want us there. It's not politically correct to speak it loud but they were honest to him unofficialy during breaks. And Kosovo will also never become a member because they know what kind of business they do there. And considering that EU now has their own problems...chances even get smaller. It has nothing to do with US if you are pointing in that direction.

That's one guy whose story I don't find particularly plausible. Maybe he had read too much of meaning, that he believes is there, into the words that didn't really mean that. 

The Muslims are already present in the EU, being the citizens of various EU countries. Turkey is out of consideration at the moment because of the sultan. Once they overturn their currently backwards trend, and certain inevitable changes happen in the ME, why the heck not?

And Serbia is nothing special. What's the difference between you and Croatia? Except that you're landlocked and therefore EU can easily reduce you to an enclave surrounded with its members? Kidding, EU has no menacing ambitions.     

Serbia and Kosovo at this very moment can't join anything because well, duh, general mess with additional problem in form of Serbia being Russian proxy. That too will change. History goes on in relatively predictable ways, no matter how eternal some people and options see themselves. 

And the EU is ideal way to solve various border and minority disputes once and for all. Which is why Vučić should - but he can't because of Putin and his complexes against EU - start cooperating with the EU for real. Serbia needs the impossible: to keep Kosovo while letting it be independent. Well, if you both were in the EU... you'd have that particular impossible arrangement. (By the way, no, Kosovo does not have mafia with superhuman abilities... once there's existing political will to do so, they'll suddenly cease to exist.)

Edited September 6, 2020 by Helen of Annoy

[TrumanB]

19 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Muslims are already present in the EU, being the citizens of various EU countries. Turkey is out of consideration at the moment because of the sultan. Once they overturn their currently backwards trend, and certain inevitable changes happen in the ME, why the heck not?

 

Yes, but you are missing that no country with a muslim majority was accepted in EU...neither it will. Turkey wasn't considered even before lunatic Erdogan and they will not be in EU after him. They have over 80 million muslims ( that I have nothing against to be clear )  that EU simply doesn't want to integrate.

Edited September 6, 2020 by TrumanB

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, TrumanB said:

Yes, but you are missing that no country with a muslim majority was accepted in EU...neither it will. Turkey wasn't considered even before lunatic Erdogan and they will not be in EU after him. They have over 80 million muslims ( that I have nothing against to be clear )  that EU simply doesn't want to integrate.

Turkey is bordering ME. It only got worse with Syria exploding, but even before that it was the set of problems ready to happen no one sane was in a hurry to claim as their own. More importantly, Turkey has issues, that existed before and only got worse with sultan losing his marbles, with human rights, especially treatment of dissidents and minorities, namely Kurds. After his stunt with using refugees as some sort of living, breathing, suffering extortion tool, yeah, no, he won't see the EU. But he personally is not Turkey. 

It's not being a Muslim that is a problem for the EU, it's refusing to act in accordance to European standards that is the problem.

 

It's the same with South Slavic (and Albania and Kosovo) countries that are still out of the EU. It's not religion or any particular national dislike, it's the refusal and/or objective inability to meet the requirements.  

But you'll get in eventually. 

The alternative would be too depressive even for the far right, that will have to find new hobby once the chronic war mongering is out of fashion. 

[TrumanB]

Mah...I'm still sceptical. None of these countries will see EU except Montenegro.

[odas]

On 9/5/2020 at 6:02 PM, TrumanB said:

Where did you get this? I don't think that's true. The conflict is from the 90s.

p.s. no need to answer, I read your previous comment. Anyway, it's wrong.

Oh I will answer because you call it wrong. Under Aleksander Rankovic the Serbian minority in Kosovo had all the power. A politbuero was established and Kosovars were jailed, tortured, killed or forced to flee to other countries outside Yugoslavia or even to safer places within like Croatia and Bosnia. That was in the 50 and 60. The next big move by serbian politicians was in 1982 and lasted until 90 where additional police was deployed from other YU republics but with the Balkan war starting in 1991 focus was shifted. 

I am really not impressed when people say things but not watching the timeline of happenings although readilly and independedly available.

[odas]

On 9/5/2020 at 8:54 PM, TrumanB said:

To add some more thoughts. With this sign Serbia put a finger in the eye ( sorry, I don't know English expression for this ) of Russia, China and the muslim world. Russia and China are friendly countries ( with China we have established strong economic ties in past few years and with some muslim countries such as Iran and UAE we also have good relations ). And Vučić acts like the idiot by signing any paper given.

This picture tells a lot:

On the first picture we can see former ( and late unfortunately ) Serbian prime minister Đinđić about 18 years ago talking to president Bush. Based on his position in room and body language you can see that he has even status to the most powerful man on planet of that time.

On the bottom one we see little scared pupil ( although he is close to 2m tall ) who receives orders/lessons from president Trump. I'm wondering how is it possible that after almost two decades our position deteriorated and we are led by this ugly character...

and in this scene it looks like he didn't know what he signed: https://mobile.twitter.com/PaoloStefanini5/status/1302233149074792450

Late? Dzinzic was a progressive Serbian Leader who could have done great things for not only Serbia but for the region who was ASSASSINATED by nationalistic Serbs. Just to clarifie to word "Late".

[odas]

Today, the former president of Serbia, Boris Tadic, slammed Vucic for the Washington agreement calling him a traitor, dictator.

Also, today, in Belgrade, the first gathering protest at the Serbian Parlament against the agreement.

Will see what happenes in next days once the whole thruth about the agreement comes out. 

[Helen of Annoy]

While Vučić said, referring to his hilarious catastrophe in America, that "Serbia wasn't so respected since Tito"  (It seems he was possessed with one of Trump's demons of irrational propaganda.)

Of course, while Tito was life-long president of Yugoslavia, there was no singled out Serbia to be respected without other federate republics. Greater Serbian doctrine always saw ex-Yu as some sort of cocoon from which unrestricted Serbian hegemony will arise, but it's completely incorrect - impossible, actually - to babble about Serbian rating in historic period when Serbia wasn't an independent country. 

Ex-Yugoslavia was respected and it did have unique geopolitical position. But it wasn't thanks to greater Serbian troglodytes, it was despite them.   

 

So, Vučić claims he's happy with the agreement he signed after he had "read it 500 times" which means he knew he's moving embassy to Jerusalem, and after the folders were mixed up so signed the wrong one, but then he noticed the mistake and signed the right one... etc... no, really, some of the same demons that posses Trump have totally jumped on Vučić   

[odas]

Hope people don't get me wrong here. I AM for the peace agreement. I AM for normalised relationships not only between Serbia and Kosovo but between Serbia and ALL other ex-Yugoslav republics. But that is the essence of the problem. There is no peace as long as Serbia is an unstable country led by nationalists, led by fals history, myths and legends.

In the name of god, WHAT does moving the ambassy to Jerusalem has to do with peace on the balkans? In what universe will this bring Serbia closer to the EU? And Turkey? Turkey has more money invested in Serbia than any other country. They invest in infrastructure, companies...you name it.

There is no true peace as long as the peace does not come within the balkans. As long as Serbia denies all the war athrocities commited. 

This agreement ONLY benefits Israel, Trump and the evangelicans and noone else, especially not the countries on the balkans.

 

[TrumanB]

1 hour ago, odas said:

Late? Dzinzic was a progressive Serbian Leader who could have done great things for not only Serbia but for the region who was ASSASSINATED by nationalistic Serbs. Just to clarifie to word "Late".

Late means dead in English ( fore ex. my late parents ). And he wasn't killed by 'nationalistic Serbs' but by mafia that had their own interests that have nothing to do with nationalism. There is also a possibility that assassination was ordered from abroad by some foreign force but as I said before - we will probably never find that out. Your comments are biased. But I agree that Đinđić was progressive.

Edited September 7, 2020 by TrumanB

[TrumanB]

1 minute ago, odas said:

Hope people don't get me wrong here. I AM for the peace agreement. I AM for normalised relationships not only between Serbia and Kosovo but between Serbia and ALL other ex-Yugoslav republics. But that is the essence of the problem. There is no peace as long as Serbia is an unstable country led by nationalists, led by fals history, myths and legends.

 

And there is also no peace while Albanians are pushing their Greater Albania agenda.

[odas]

Just now, TrumanB said:

Late means dead in English. And he wasn't killed by 'nationalistic Serbs' but by mafia that had their own interests that have nothing to do with nationalism. There is also a possibility that assassination was ordered from abroad by some foreign force but as I said before - we will probably never find that out. Your comments are biased. But I agree that Đinđić was progressive.

I know what late means, just wanted to clarify how he became to be " the late".

Mafia? Nice. Too bad it is another myth.

[odas]

2 minutes ago, TrumanB said:

And there is also no peace while Albanians are pushing their Greater Albania agenda.

Agreed. Greater anything does not call for peace.

[odas]

Ouuuukeeeeyyy. WE all here got fooled buy Trump. Nothing, but really nothing is happening here except Trump trying to buy some more votes from the Albanian loby.

Turns out, according to the Serbian Law, Vucic had no executive power to sign anything. Neither had the Kosovo side.

Both, Vucic and Hotti signed two different papers, presented by Trump as the same.

Trump did not sign any of those documents.

Again, a scam and preelection Trump stunt.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by odas
Not sure

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, TrumanB said:

Late means dead in English ( fore ex. my late parents ). And he wasn't killed by 'nationalistic Serbs' but by mafia that had their own interests that have nothing to do with nationalism. There is also a possibility that assassination was ordered from abroad by some foreign force but as I said before - we will probably never find that out. Your comments are biased. But I agree that Đinđić was progressive.

Foreign force that supports greater Serbian ultra-nationalists. Who are also fascist wannabes and have no concept of reality or personal hygiene. 

Ha! I managed to translate insults into acceptable language! 

Yeah, I'm biased too and Đinđić is still dead, because he was progressive, meaning that he was sane, literate and able to think outside the usual greater Serbian litany of myths, which means that even if the direct executor wasn't a stinky chetnik, still the turbo-nationalist troglodytes were celebrating his death. 

There, I had to say it. 

 

1 hour ago, odas said:

Agreed. Greater anything does not call for peace.

And I agree too. 

[Helen of Annoy]

5 minutes ago, odas said:

Ouuuukeeeeyyy. WE all here got fooled buy Trump. Nothing, but really nothing is happening here except Trump trying to buy some more votes from the Albanian loby.

Turns out, according to the Serbian Law, Vucic had no executive power to sign anything. Neither had the Kosovo side.

Both, Vucic and Hotti signed two different papers, presented by Trump as the same.

Trump did not sign any of those documents.

Again, a scam and preelection Trump stunt.

 

 

Vučić is supposed to come to Bruxelles this week or so. Then we'll see if things can be moved in a sane direction. 

Trump, as usual, produced more chaos and presented another morbid comedy.   

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Foreign force that supports greater Serbian ultra-nationalists. Who are also fascist wannabes and have no concept of reality or personal hygiene. 

Ha! I managed to translate insults into acceptable language! 

Yeah, I'm biased too and Đinđić is still dead, because he was progressive, meaning that he was sane, literate and able to think outside the usual greater Serbian litany of myths, which means that even if the direct executor wasn't a stinky chetnik, still the turbo-nationalist troglodytes were celebrating his death. 

There, I had to say it. 

And I agree too. 

There is no indication Trump supports a re-unified Yugoslavia or a Greater Serbia.

His negotiations were about building bridges between Kosovo and Serbia along with getting them trading again. It is far more likely this is to lay the ground for the admission of both into NATO and the EU.

[Helen of Annoy]

Why is my quote function not working? 

Because the Universe is telling me not to respond to the hopeless cases. 

Thank you, Universe. 

[odas]

9 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Vučić is supposed to come to Bruxelles this week or so. Then we'll see if things can be moved in a sane direction. 

Trump, as usual, produced more chaos and presented another morbid comedy.   

I believe the talks are underway already. I must admitt I got fooled by Trump for a second. Should have known better. There is a huge Albanian lobby in the USA and he was trying to buy them.

 

[odas]

4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Why is my quote function not working? 

Because the Universe is telling me not to respond to the hopeless cases. 

Thank you, Universe. 

Try again.

[odas]

17 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

There is no indication Trump supports a re-unified Yugoslavia or a Greater Serbia.

His negotiations were about building bridges between Kosovo and Serbia along with getting them trading again. It is far more likely this is to lay the ground for the admission of both into NATO and the EU.

Look Cookie. I would love to see this happening. It would be funny though that Anti EU and anti NATO Trump makes EU stronger.

Obviously you do not know about Serbia and Russia. Serbs and Russians 300 million. Will explain that another time.

[TrumanB]

42 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Foreign force that supports greater Serbian ultra-nationalists. Who are also fascist wannabes and have no concept of reality or personal hygiene. 

 

Not sure if you are serious about this or just kidding. Anyway, it's wrong. The theory behind 'foreign force' is that he was against compromise regarding Kosovo status which is why Brits ordered his killing.

Yes, some nationalists celebrated his assassination but they didn't order it. So who cares about them...

Edited September 7, 2020 by TrumanB