The head VD Spewer in the US

[Zaphod222]

56 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Herd immunity may never be possible with COVID19, because as we are finding out people in rare cases are being infected a second time within months of the first infection. No one claims to know how long immunity lasts from this Virus, but getting back to Herd Immunity, according to the Mayo Clinic 70% or 2 Million Americans would need to be infected to achieve Herd Immunity, but that is only if there is a long lasting immunity in the first place, which doesn't appear to be occurring.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

From the referenced article: "Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed"

But we all see what we want to see, dont we. Orangemanbad!

[Grim Reaper 6]

42 minutes ago, Zaphod222 said:

From the referenced article: "Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed"

But we all see what we want to see, dont we. Orangemanbad!

Seriously you can stop with the Orange man bad nonsense, and yes like I said reinfections are not common at this time. But not all reinfections are mild, the first case of reinfection reported in the US  required hospitalization in ICU from the second infection. Here in South Korea they have everything well under control, contact tracing is down to an art, tests results take no more than 24 hr's. When my wife and I came back here in April from the US, we had to do a two week quarantine in our home. We were tested on day one and again the day before our quarantine ended.

How are things in Japan?

I some business there in the near future, that can't be avoided, suppose I will have quarantine come back into Korea, not sure though.

 

[RoofGardener]

6 hours ago, seanjo said:

"Herd immunity is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through vaccination or previous infections,"

What would herd immunity look like on a graph?

Ummm.. well.. presumably.. a permanent decline in the number of infections ? (and deaths). 

[Ozymandias]

9 hours ago, seanjo said:

Really?

Where did you get these graphics? There appears to be something oddly wrong with them!

Take a look at the data at 'Aug 30'. On the  right graph, Deaths per Day, it seems that somewhere in the region of 15 people experienced resurrection!!

On the left hand graph, New Cases per Day, at 'Aug 30', I am at a loss to understand the meaning of the minus 3000 people ( i.e. slightly more than -2.5k. 

But more importantly neither of these graphs agree with the same Worldometer graphs (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ ). 

[RoofGardener]

5 hours ago, seanjo said:

Like the Swedish derived graphs I posted?

Precisely

[Golden Duck]

10 hours ago, seanjo said:

Like the Swedish derived graphs I posted?

No.  More like something produced from the SIR Model.

If you want to talk herd immunity you're going to need to look at the recovery rates.  Everyone avoids that conversation. 

[stereologist]

15 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Ummm.. well.. presumably.. a permanent decline in the number of infections ? (and deaths). 

That does not mean herd immunity.

[stereologist]

13 hours ago, seanjo said:

Like the Swedish derived graphs I posted?

That does not mean herd immunity.

[stereologist]

Graphs are not going to reveal herd immunity. That's a joke especially since the Swedes say they did not attain herd immunity.

Herd immunity would be determined by testing, not some superficial look at graphs.

 

[stereologist]

No country has reached herd immunity.

That is something Atlas pretends can happen and it might someday. That all depends on whether or not there is such a thing as herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2. Today no one knows. There are estimates around 60 to 70 percent. Sweden is well under 10% making the claims of Sweden reaching herd immunity a joke.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

Quote

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

So far his goal was not reached and he admits that he killed too many people in trying.

So now we have Atlas. With 180,000 dead in the US he suggests herd immunity which means we need to kill off another 5.4 million people in the US to meet his strategy even if it exists.

 

 

[stereologist]

Here is an article listing more of what Atlas is spewing is VD, viral disinformation.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/trump-advisor-reportedly-pushing-herd-immunity-idea-lambasted-by-experts/

They point out he has made basic mistakes about this virus.

[Grim Reaper 6]

9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Precisely

To reach Herd Immunity in the US, it would take 70% of the population to become infected and then gain and keep immunity which translates into 2 hundred million people. Don't know what figures would be for Britain but it would be calculated the same way which is based upon population. The only reasonable way to achieve this is with a Vaccine, or in the case of COVID19 possible multiple vaccinations with a vaccine. The problem with this Virus is that the worlds best doctors are uncertain how long immunity to this Virus lasts, while rare some counties in including the US, are reporting the same people being infected twice with short periods between infections. So only time will tell what is going to work, as more information is learned.

[bee]

 

the hype over this virus.... is getting more ridiculous by the day...

some people who rely on MSM to give them information and believe it to be truthful and unbiased have been scared half to death with it all - some people have looked at it all a bit deeper and smell a rat... 

a very nasty horrible rat...

 

 

[Zaphod222]

3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

To reach Herd Immunity in the US, it would take 70% of the population to become infected and then gain and keep immunity which translates into 2 hundred million people. Don't know what figures would be for Britain but it would be calculated the same way which is based upon population. The only reasonable way to achieve this is with a Vaccine, or in the case of COVID19 possible multiple vaccinations with a vaccine. The problem with this Virus is that the worlds best doctors are uncertain how long immunity to this Virus lasts, while rare some counties in including the US, are reporting the same people being infected twice with short periods between infections. So only time will tell what is going to work, as more information is learned.

Complete BS. Herd immunity will be reached one way or another, the question is how. And vaccines take a long time to develop, plus you can not vaccinate for every possible mutation of a virus out there.

Swedens soft approach worked well for the country.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-was-the-impact-of-swedens-soft-approach-to-lockdown#Lockdown-choices

[Zaphod222]

Here is an article from from a Swedish doctor. I am not saying it is relevant to all situations in all countries, but it is an interesting direct look at the situation from someone who is directly involved and qualified to talk about the topic. Quite unlke the MSM propaganda spouted here by some.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/08/04/how-bad-is-covid-really-a-swedish-doctors-perspective/

 

[RoofGardener]

6 hours ago, stereologist said:

That does not mean herd immunity.

But it would be a SYMPTON of herd immunity. Obviously, it would cause a significant reduction in infection and deaths. 

[stereologist]

17 hours ago, bee said:

 

the hype over this virus.... is getting more ridiculous by the day...

some people who rely on MSM to give them information and believe it to be truthful and unbiased have been scared half to death with it all - some people have looked at it all a bit deeper and smell a rat... 

a very nasty horrible rat...

 

 

You rely on filth garbage outlets. You just posted some garbage from the Washington Times.

The one thing we know is you do not look at all. You were completely unaware of the number of deaths of doctors and other front line workers in the UK.

[stereologist]

14 hours ago, Zaphod222 said:

Complete BS. Herd immunity will be reached one way or another, the question is how. And vaccines take a long time to develop, plus you can not vaccinate for every possible mutation of a virus out there.

Swedens soft approach worked well for the country.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-was-the-impact-of-swedens-soft-approach-to-lockdown#Lockdown-choices

Complete BS.Herd immunity may not be reached. Didn't happen for a lot of diseases.

You don't have to vaccinate for ever possible mutation of a virus. That's false

Sweden's approach was a failure high deaths with no economic gain.Sweden is a country of 10 million that are well spread out.It faired poorly compared to its neighbors and its economic indicators were almost the same as its neighbors.

[stereologist]

14 hours ago, Zaphod222 said:

Here is an article from from a Swedish doctor. I am not saying it is relevant to all situations in all countries, but it is an interesting direct look at the situation from someone who is directly involved and qualified to talk about the topic. Quite unlke the MSM propaganda spouted here by some.

https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/08/04/how-bad-is-covid-really-a-swedish-doctors-perspective/

 

The first sentence tells us is an opinion piece " it is entirely anecdotal".

I didn't bother to go any further.

Are they qualified to talk about the entire situation? No. They make that clear at the start.

[stereologist]

12 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

But it would be a SYMPTON of herd immunity. Obviously, it would cause a significant reduction in infection and deaths. 

Again, the charts cannot show herd immunity.

At most these types of charts can show herd immunity did NOT occur. Just look at the total cases and compare to 60% of the population.

[stereologist]

10 hours ago, seanjo said:

I never said it means herd immunity, I said it SEEMS to be working using the graphs as an example.

What seems to be working? I stated " Sweden does not have herd immunity and the plan has failed. " You posted graphs and then stated "Really?"

You still have failed to show herd immunity. Now you want to move the goal posts to some unnamed nebulous whatever.

Whatever. There have not been enough infections in Sweden to get to herd immunity.

A more likely situation is that people in Sweden are shocked by all of the deaths and are taking better precautions than they did before.

[stereologist]

More codswallop from the head VD spewer.

Quote

“I’m not going to say it’s proven to work because it’s not” — but he challenged those who have accused President Trump of pushing snake oil.

https://www.washington times.com/news/2020/aug/29/hydroxychloroquine-uproar-shows-objective-science-/

(link broken on purpose)

Quote

“Hydroxychloroquine is super safe. It’s a complete myth, it’s a total distortion, to say that, ‘oh, my God, this drug is very dangerous for people,’” Dr. Atlas said. “It’s been used for 65 or 70 years, not just prophylactically for malaria, which I used it myself for that many years ago, but also used for people with things like rheumatic arthritis, auto-immune-type diseases. Very safe drug.”

I suppose when it only leads to 75 deaths a year in the US, that's a safe drug.

Then he goes off the deep end pretending it has prophylactic uses which has been shown not to be the case.

 

[stereologist]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/world/coronavirus-covid-live.html

Quote

Dr. Scott W. Atlas has argued that the science of mask wearing is uncertain, that children cannot pass on the coronavirus and that the role of the government is not to stamp out the virus but to protect its most vulnerable citizens as Covid-19 takes its course.

Ideas like these, ideologically freighted and scientifically disputed, have propelled Dr. Atlas, a radiologist and senior fellow at Stanford University’s conservative Hoover Institution, into President Trump’s White House. Dr. Atlas is neither an epidemiologist nor an infectious disease expert, but his frequent appearances on Fox News and his ideological surety caught the president’s eye.

 

[stereologist]

 

So where does this take us?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/world/coronavirus-covid-live.html

Quote

Mr. Trump has embraced Dr. Atlas even as he upsets the balance of power within the White House coronavirus task force with ideas that top government doctors and scientists find misguided — even dangerous — according to people familiar with the task force’s deliberations.

That may be the point.

“I think Trump clearly does not like the advice he was receiving from the people who are the experts — Fauci, Birx, etc. — so he has slowly shifted from their advice to somebody who tells him what he wants to hear,” said Dr. Carlos del Rio, an infectious disease expert at Emory University in Atlanta. He was referring to Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the country’s leading infectious disease scientist, and Dr. Deborah L. Birx, the White House coronavirus response coordinator.

Trump thinks this is all about marketing and he needs to pretend that his failures to protect people are not failures.

The old joke is don't fix it feature it. How are the Trumpians going to feature 200,000 dead people (before the election) in the US?

 

[stereologist]

Well here is the hero of the brown eye tattoo being a brainless putz

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-atlas-coronavirus-surges-linked-mostly-to-protests-and-proximity-to-us-mexico-border

Quote

The recent surges in U.S. coronavirus cases can be traced to two key factors -- crowds of protesters and proximity to the U.S.-Mexico border, Dr. Scott Atlas, a senior fellow at The Hoover Institution, said Saturday night.

What a dunce! Nice pretend.