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Finding ET: do aliens even use radio signals?


UM-Bot
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42 minutes ago, UM-Bot said:

do aliens even use radio signals?

I doubt it very much.

Let's face it..... In the grand scheme of things, we've only recently invented radio communication, and we don't seem to be looking for an alternative.

I can't imagine an interstellar race using something so primitive.

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17 minutes ago, acute said:

I doubt it very much.

Let's face it..... In the grand scheme of things, we've only recently invented radio communication, and we don't seem to be looking for an alternative.

I can't imagine an interstellar race using something so primitive.

They might have, in the past... and those signals migh be heading our way?

Not going to hold my breath though.

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@Hazzard

I won't be holding my breath either.

Even if we picked up an ancient modulated radio transmission, we have no way to understand the message.

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I always thought the SETI program was based on the questionable assumption that they would communicate with us just for our curiosity. They have their agenda with us that doesn't apparently entail dramatic direct communication. Would we handle it correctly if they did?

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One thing in favor of radio is its efficient, at least compared to sending a robot carrier pigeon. A 500 kw radio signal will go a long way at the speed of light. Putting 500 kw into a rocket will send it not very far.

To justify replacing radio would need something either faster or more efficient. Faster is going to be very difficult given present understanding of physics and a more efficient method could still use electromagnetic radiation in some shape or form.  

So some type of radio message could still be the preferred method of communications for ET even if they are more developed than us earthlings?

 

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22 minutes ago, acute said:

@Hazzard

I won't be holding my breath either.

Even if we picked up an ancient modulated radio transmission, we have no way to understand the message.

Imagine if we picked up an alien tv or radio broadcast,and it turned out to be the alien version of fawlty towers.:lol:

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5 minutes ago, diddyman68 said:

Imagine if we picked up an alien tv or radio broadcast,and it turned out to be the alien version of fawlty towers.:lol:

The BBC could sue the bug-eyed fuglies.

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Ha,now im imagining some bug eyed fugly opening the door to an inspector,who says "hello,do you watch live television ?

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I imagine going beyond electro magnetic radiation would require better knowledge of quantum effects such as entanglement. Or being able to affect a wirmhole like effect.

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10 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

 Or being able to affect a wirmhole like effect.

Or  short circuit the continuum on a five or six parsec level.  :tu: :D

 

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5 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Or  short circuit the continuum on a five or six parsec level.  :tu: :D

 

You wouldn't need FTL travel/communication if you had what amounted to a jumpgate in orbit (if safe), or at a lagrange point (if it was dangerous).

If ET has gravity manipulation, or wormhole technology, we'll be hard pressed to see them using it for travel, IMHO.

Gravity based communication... Would that be limited by speed of light? What is the propogation speed of gravity?

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5 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

 

Gravity based communication... Would that be limited by speed of light? What is the propogation speed of gravity?

It is the same as light (c) gravity waves travel at light speed. 

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2 hours ago, diddyman68 said:

Ha,now im imagining some bug eyed fugly opening the door to an inspector,who says "hello,do you watch live television ?

"Can I see your TV Licence?"

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4 hours ago, UM-Bot said:

SETI has been searching for evidence of alien signals for decades, but what if we're using the wrong technology ?

a ridiculous question 

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5 hours ago, UM-Bot said:

SETI has been searching for evidence of alien signals for decades, but what if we're using the wrong technology ?

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/339307/finding-et-do-aliens-even-use-radio-signals

Reality itself may even be different for aliens.

They might have discovered forces we know nothing off. I think SETI is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. No, not because aliens might be few and far between. But because our method of electro-magnetic communication might be few and far between.

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59 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

a ridiculous question 

Why?

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27 minutes ago, acute said:

Why?

it's boring pointless speculation. With regard to logic/ rational thinking, it's a ridiculous thing to discuss IMHO.

Personally I like the logic/ rational approach, BUT= if you want to talk fantasy here then yeah, great, why not.. Carry on & enjoy.

Who am I to say you can't;)

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Radio signals was a good idea back in the day. But just as our own technology progressed over the centuries and evolution over millions of years we have no idea where ET’s might be at this time. They could be just learning to communicate with each other or even far past our own technology and abilities. I believe in searching with anything and everything we have to search with. It might be 50 years from now or even never but it’s worth the effort in just knowing. 

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9 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

One thing in favor of radio is its efficient, at least compared to sending a robot carrier pigeon. A 500 kw radio signal will go a long way at the speed of light. Putting 500 kw into a rocket will send it not very far.

To justify replacing radio would need something either faster or more efficient. Faster is going to be very difficult given present understanding of physics and a more efficient method could still use electromagnetic radiation in some shape or form.  

So some type of radio message could still be the preferred method of communications for ET even if they are more developed than us earthlings?

 

Radio definitely would not be used by any type of advanced alien civilization for intergalactic communication if they exist.

While radio is efficient like you said it still has the inverse square law problem.  Using Earth's current radio communication as an example the bubble of radio signals created by us have already reached multiple star systems but the problem is that a few light years away from earth our radio signals are so degraded they get covered up by the background radiation of the universe let alone all the other radiation sources in the universe.

An equivalent analogy would be standing on the coast of southern France, tossing a pebble into the Mediterranean, and hoping someone on the northern coast of Africa will detect the ripples from the pebble.

Even then SETI based their search on the arguably flawed assumption that advanced alien civilizations would be using stupidly insanely strong radio transmitters that we could detect using our own development of stronger and stronger radio transmitters to send information over larger distances.

Lastly there is the problem of if advanced alien civilizations have found a way to get around the vast intergalactic distances and essentially travel faster then the speed of light, such as some kind of warp drive, worm hole, teleportation, or any other conceivable way to cheat the speed of light, why would they bother to use any type of light speed communication stronger then what we have developed.  Anyway using something that would last more then a few light years from a planet before being covered up by background radiation would expose the planet's location to anyone who could pick up the signal and put the planet at extreme risk.

Ultimately us hoping to pick up alien radio signals or for aliens to pick up ours is near zero and arguably a waste of resources that could be put to better uses.

Edited by DarkHunter
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3 hours ago, Free99 said:

Radio signals was a good idea back in the day. But just as our own technology progressed over the centuries and evolution over millions of years we have no idea where ET’s might be at this time. They could be just learning to communicate with each other or even far past our own technology and abilities. I believe in searching with anything and everything we have to search with. It might be 50 years from now or even never but it’s worth the effort in just knowing. 

Radio, microwaves, lasers, all forms of electro-magnetic radiation (EMR waves) have one obvious limitation and that is they dont allow communication faster than light. So they are useful as a means of communication across a planet. Not very useful for communication across a star system as it would take hours to get messages between planets. And of no use when it comes to communicating between star systems in a space empire because it would take years, decades, centuries, to receive messages.

Hence, aliens will not be broadcasting high energy EMR waves for communication across star systems in their empires.

Now lets cause some controversy. In Buddhism there is something called interdependent existence or interdependent origination. That is two `things` existing apart from each other both require the existence of the other for they themselves to exist. With all such interdependence relationships they violate the speed of light. And if we start looking for them in our reality we realise its filled with them.

Example: An object requires a location to exist at in order to exist. To have such a location it also requires everywhere else to exist where it isn`t at. Lets call them location and non-location. Location and non-location share an interdependence with each other. One cannot exist without the other. We dont have to wait 10 years for an object existing at a location also not to exist in star system 10 light years away. If it has a location, then it instantaneously doesnt exist anywhere else throughout the entire universe.

Interdependence means its likely that faster than light communication is possible. It means having a sender `thing`, and receiver `thing`, both sharing some form of interdependent existence, which can be altered at the receiver side by doing something to the sender side in a way that amounts to meaningful communication.

Currently physics has quantum teleportation which does the above using probabilities. But the problem with probabilities is it only allows for probabilistic communication which cannot accurately transmit communication making it useless as a means for doing so. So the hunt is on for something else!!!

But I think you will find aliens will be using interdependence for FTL communication (albeit not a form using probabilities).

Edited by Cookie Monster
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Radio is primitive? To who?

Alien races could be far more advanced or behind us, calling radio primitive in this context is just empty speculation.

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I have said this several times. Searching for radio signals as a sign of life is a bit narrow minded when it comes to focusing resources on the most likely detectable signature of life.

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My answer is no, never, not no how! The Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence director, since day one, is Seth Shostack. He's never seen a UFO and does not believe we've been visited. All that donated money could have been better well spent on something else more worthy.

I've seen UFOs in the daylight & night and have yet to see an antenna on their fly bys! LOL!

 

MK 

Edited by Malaria_Kidd
1 "s" LOL
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