Current Day "Faith".........?

[Scudbuster 1,681]

By pandering to Evangelicals and other true believers, it seems our current WH occupant has inadvertently exposed them for what they are: power hungry hypocrites.

 

The Netflix series "The Family" gets into all of it, from the very beginnings of this power grab effort all the way to the current day situation and the phony "religious" guy presently in the Oval office. 

 

This series does a terrific job of peeling back the layers of this onion and laying things bare.....and it's pretty sad, pathetic, and disturbing.

 

The net-net - under the guise of faith, its about power:

 

[XenoFish 106,537]

I predict thread destruction by page 5 tops. 

[Solipsi Rai 1,053]

Evangelicals in the government: where politics and religion shouldn't mix, the movement known as Dominionism made up of the religious right who call for a theocratic democratic republic. I'm glad less people feel a need to have a religion in the current year, therefore we don't need Dominionism to determine how the USA needs to be governed, I strongly support the separation of church and state. I prefer humanism and science to assist in improvement of the quality of life and usually, most people attend a house of worship and belong to an organized religion for different reasons today like a sense of community and a social life network of friends.

[zep73 7,752]

I read this funny statement in a meme some time ago:

Quote

The evangelicals have been warning the world about the Antichrist for centuries. When he finally came, they elected him president.

Not that I believe in any of it.

[Hammerclaw 27,869]

3 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

By pandering to Evangelicals and other true believers, it seems our current WH occupant has inadvertently exposed them for what they are: power hungry hypocrites.

 

The Netflix series "The Family" gets into all of it, from the very beginnings of this power grab effort all the way to the current day situation and the phony "religious" guy presently in the Oval office. 

 

This series does a terrific job of peeling back the layers of this onion and laying things bare.....and it's pretty sad, pathetic, and disturbing.

 

The net-net - under the guise of faith, its about power:

 

It's based on the Biden family.

[Mr Walker 6,373]

2 hours ago, Solipsi Rai said:

Evangelicals in the government: where politics and religion shouldn't mix, the movement known as Dominionism made up of the religious right who call for a theocratic democratic republic. I'm glad less people feel a need to have a religion in the current year, therefore we don't need Dominionism to determine how the USA needs to be governed, I strongly support the separation of church and state. I prefer humanism and science to assist in improvement of the quality of life and usually, most people attend a house of worship and belong to an organized religion for different reasons today like a sense of community and a social life network of friends.

People are people.

They  carry their beliefs and values into both private and public life.

This is both inevitable and right 

The constitutional separation of state PROTECTS the rights of people to all beliefs, including non belief.

  it does NOT intrinsically ban or disempower faith/beliefs or religions. It seeks to make all equal.

Basically the state cannot; have, advance, or deny, any form of religion or religious beliefs.(as long as they do not  break other laws) 

 Nor can it be, or promote, secularist /atheist governance.

Interestingly most fundamentalists  in the USA support the separation of church and state, because the y see it as protecting them from  the state. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Desertrat56 19,634]

12 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

By pandering to Evangelicals and other true believers, it seems our current WH occupant has inadvertently exposed them for what they are: power hungry hypocrites.

 

The Netflix series "The Family" gets into all of it, from the very beginnings of this power grab effort all the way to the current day situation and the phony "religious" guy presently in the Oval office. 

 

This series does a terrific job of peeling back the layers of this onion and laying things bare.....and it's pretty sad, pathetic, and disturbing.

 

The net-net - under the guise of faith, its about power:

 

Yep.  Obvious to me from the start, anyone fooled in to thinking Trump was religious in any way except to serve himself was not paying attention.

[Scudbuster 1,681]

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

People are people.

They  carry their beliefs and values into both private and public life.

This is both inevitable and right 

The constitutional separation of state PROTECTS the rights of people to all beliefs, including non belief.

  it does NOT intrinsically ban or disempower faith/beliefs or religions. It seeks to make all equal.

Basically the state cannot; have, advance, or deny, any form of religion or religious beliefs.(as long as they do not  break other laws) 

 Nor can it be, or promote, secularist /atheist governance.

Interestingly most fundamentalists  in the USA support the separation of church and state, because the y see it as protecting them from  the state. 

Now this is all sweet, fanciful, and very dreamy based talk, pretty much ignoring the reality of whats going on. I'm guessing you are living in some alt based reality.

I'm about 99% sure you have not watched the series - its pretty eye opening about religion and religious ambitions and greed today, not yesteryear, not way back in the desert a couple thousand years ago. It's today, now, present tense. 

[XenoFish 106,537]

I'm beginning to think the atheist are as nutty as the theist.

[Mr Walker 6,373]

19 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Now this is all sweet, fanciful, and very dreamy based talk, pretty much ignoring the reality of whats going on. I'm guessing you are living in some alt based reality.

I'm about 99% sure you have not watched the series - its pretty eye opening about religion and religious ambitions and greed today, not yesteryear, not way back in the desert a couple thousand years ago. It's today, now, present tense. 

Fair enough I tend to optimism but it works for me.

However I am correct about the american constitution (i studied both american history and politics at university)

its possible but highly unlikely (less than 10% probability IMO) that The US will self destruct due to internal divisions.

Its much more likely (probability over 50%) that America will be defeated by China (at first economically and politically and then militarily) UNLESS this battle is fought out in the next 20 years. Then America has a chance of winning but there is a higher probability of nuclear war destroying civilization  By 2050 China will be so much stronger that war is unlikely, but American power will  then wane and China will be the supreme global power.

 https://www.vox.com/world/2018/11/14/18091800/china-military-power-congress-commission-report-2050

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-wants-the-most-powerful-military-the-planet-by-2050-24779

 

I live in a more real environment than most  (A small country town in Australia) I have access to the internet and mass media  but i get my news etc through traditional sources   I dont watch any commercial based television and I chose my internet programmes wisely   eg i keep up to date with military and political issues on reliable web sites 

Americans elected trump and are likley to re elect him Thats says more about the american people than it does about trump

America is divided now, for many reasons both political and economic, but its been so before.  I grew up during the vietnam war and observed the demonstrations etc towards the end of it   I lived through the  assassination of the  american president and martin luther king   and the race riots of the sixties and seventies. I watched the american economy be overtaken by the Chinese one,  America will remain a democracy and the nature of that democracy( and of the American people) will prevent it becoming a theocracy.

Indeed that possibility decreases over time, as the populace becomes more educated  

Edited September 9, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Scudbuster 1,681]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 

Americans elected trump and are likley to re elect him Thats says more about the american people than it does about trump

Exactly - and this is the bottom line take away message - its the people who are driving this.

The very heavy influence of religion is one of the prime factors. They want power, and they see Trump as the vehicle to help them attain this goal.

The mixing of religion and American politics has been growing for 50 years or more, and unfortunately if anything, it's getting stronger.

[Mr Walker 6,373]

10 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Exactly - and this is the bottom line take away message - its the people who are driving this.

The very heavy influence of religion is one of the prime factors. They want power, and they see Trump as the vehicle to help them attain this goal.

The mixing of religion and American politics has been growing for 50 years or more, and unfortunately if anything, it's getting stronger.

well if the people are driving it in a democracy  then while you may not like it you cant prevent it 

However that is a big if 

Many fundamentalist see the separation of church and state as giving them power/protection which would be taken away if the state could intervene in religion Your theory presupposes a religious state  with specific values and beliefs and that all christians would support them 

That is almost impossible given the political structure and demographics of America.

Basically while middle america (geographically)remains religious and conservative  eastern and western America counterbalance this 

I am not sure what effect the growth in percentage of hispanic (and often religious) people in the south and west will  mean  However the y are largely catholic and would not support a protestant fundamentalist government 

I think you are wrong, but even if you are right, I place democracy first, and accept the will of the people in a democracy to decide their own governmental form  

Edited September 9, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Scudbuster 1,681]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 

I think you are wrong, but even if you are right, I place democracy first, and accept the will of the people in a democracy to decide their own governmental form  

Well i think I think I have a pretty good sense of things.....and here's a short video helping to explain how sick all this BS is:

 

[jmccr8 19,438]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Many fundamentalist see the separation of church and state as giving them power/protection which would be taken away if the state could intervene in religion Your theory presupposes a religious state  with specific values and beliefs and that all christians would support them 

Hi Walker

Many people think they are the right hand of god my dad did and I survived that and much more.

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

That is almost impossible given the political structure and demographics of America.

A lot of Christians do not extend that part of themselves in any more than an one hour exercise in ethics once a week.

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I am not sure what effect the growth in percentage of hispanic (and often religious) people in the south and west will  mean  However the y are largely catholic and would not support a protestant fundamentalist government 

I live in a bubble and you're bubble has burst

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Basically while middle america (geographically)remains religious and conservative  eastern and western America counterbalance this 

They are also drug addicts, alcoholics, pedos etal what a wonderful experience of self forgiveness

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I think you are wrong, but even if you are right, I place democracy first, and accept the will of the people in a democracy to decide their own governmental form  

I don't give a shot who cracks the whip you get what you get.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker 6,373]

41 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Many people think they are the right hand of god my dad did and I survived that and much more.

A lot of Christians do not extend that part of themselves in any more than an one hour exercise in ethics once a week.

I live in a bubble and you're bubble has burst

They are also drug addicts, alcoholics, pedos etal what a wonderful experience of self forgiveness

I don't give a shot who cracks the whip you get what you get.

jmccr8

RUOK ?

(i dont really understand what you are getting at with any of these points, except maybe the last, which i agree with.) 

In a democracy no one has a legitimate right to rebel or try to overthrow the govt.

In non democracies there IS such a legitimate right for rebellion or revolution. 

[Mr Walker 6,373]

1 hour ago, Scudbuster said:

Well i think I think I have a pretty good sense of things.....and here's a short video helping to explain how sick all this BS is:

 

 I dont do sound on my computer, but will see if i can access this on my tablet.

The demographic statistics show that, while religious people supported trump more than clinton,  so did rural people, white people, and less educated people.

It is more than a religious issue.

  Interestingly there was not a big division on gender lines.

If oyu are a black /hispanic , city dwelling,  university graduate, you are probably not a trump supporter . If you are white, rural and  not  college educated  then you probably are. 

If the latter outnumber the former in America, then trump is likely to be elected If there are more of the former then his election is unlikely 

Depending, of course, on  how motivated each demographic is, to vote. 

 While the percentage is falling, non hispanic whites still have the highest voter turn out.

Voter turn out increases significantly with education Over 70% for post graduates; less than 30%  for  people who did not graduate high school. However there are a lot more of them than postgraduate holders 

Urban dwellers make up 80 % of the population (Non Hispanic)  Whites make up about 60% of the population. About 34% of americans have a college degree,

This means it could be a tight run race   

Edited September 10, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Scudbuster 1,681]

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 I dont do sound on my computer, but will see if i can access this on my tablet.

The demographic statistics show that, while religious people supported trump more than clinton,  so did rural people, white people, and less educated people.

It is more than a religious issue.

  Interestingly there was not a big division on gender lines.

If oyu are a black /hispanic , city dwelling,  university graduate, you are probably not a trump supporter . If you are white, rural and  not  college educated  then you probably are. 

If the latter outnumber the former in America, then trump is likely to be elected If there are more of the former then his election is unlikely 

Depending, of course, on  how motivated each demographic is, to vote. 

 While the percentage is falling, non hispanic whites still have the highest voter turn out.

Voter turn out increases significantly with education Over 70% for post graduates; less than 30%  for  people who did not graduate high school. However there are a lot more of them than postgraduate holders 

Urban dwellers make up 80 % of the population (Non Hispanic)  Whites make up about 60% of the population. About 34% of americans have a college degree,

This means it could be a tight run race   

You're still not getting my point....I don't much care about the usual political stuff, my point is the huge effort by the evangelicals to gain power and influence no matter what. They are selling their souls to achieve this.....so much for their pure hearts and religious convictions. 

[Scudbuster 1,681]

Well, the tide may be turning away from Trump after all, but if they just hitch their wagons to another politico for the same reasons, we simply are no further ahead:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/10/trump-religious-voters-411248

[Mr Walker 6,373]

On 9/10/2020 at 11:47 PM, Scudbuster said:

You're still not getting my point....I don't much care about the usual political stuff, my point is the huge effort by the evangelicals to gain power and influence no matter what. They are selling their souls to achieve this.....so much for their pure hearts and religious convictions. 

How is belief driven politics not "the usual stuff ?"

 How is environmental belief, driving political action, not exactly the same thing? 

How is wanting a country whose rules and laws reflect your own values, unexpected, or even "wrong"? 

I like living in a country with some secular and some religious elements.

I would  not like a theocracy, but if it was democratically achieved i would have to live in it, as i do in my present political system, or agitate to change it democratically   

[Scudbuster 1,681]

On 9/13/2020 at 12:39 AM, Mr Walker said:

How is belief driven politics not "the usual stuff ?"

 How is environmental belief, driving political action, not exactly the same thing? 

How is wanting a country whose rules and laws reflect your own values, unexpected, or even "wrong"? 

I like living in a country with some secular and some religious elements.

I would  not like a theocracy, but if it was democratically achieved i would have to live in it, as i do in my present political system, or agitate to change it democratically   

In a word: no.

Issues, yes, thats what politics is. Religion? No. A big fat no. Unfortunately, across the world, just the opposite has happened over the millennia - religious wars everywhere.

The net-net: deaths, destruction, pain & suffering on a gargantuan scale. Now it's mixing heavily into U.S. politics.......not a wise or welcome trend......but the fanatics want their power.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Scudbuster

[Mr Walker 6,373]

7 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

In a word: no.

Issues, yes, thats what politics is. Religion? No. A big fat no. Unfortunately, across the world, just the opposite has happened over the millennia - religious wars everywhere.

The net-net: deaths, destruction, pain & suffering on a gargantuan scale. Now it's mixing heavily into U.S. politics.......not a wise or welcome trend......but the fanatics want their power.

That might be what you would like to be the truth but, it is not 

Politicians are human beings.

Humans are basically an organic body, hosting individual values, beliefs, moralities, and ethics 

Thus, as long as a politician is honest and upfront with electors before an election, about their personal beliefs, there isn't a problem. Indeed one should be expected to live and behave consistent with ones beliefs and values.

Dont vote for a person whose values do not represent yours, but others  might , and we need to know what every politician stands for.

Many things cause wars and conflicts.  Nationalism, shortage of resources,  Strategic requirements,  fear, xenophobia, different political ideologies, different economic systems  and yep sometimes religion Religion,   like nationalism, can also be a uniting force, and many times in the past has united a people or a country ,or a continent, and thus prevented other causes of warfare  About 75% of Americans identify with one religion or another   Thus, for most Americans, religious issues will always be important political issues and the beliefs of a politician will be important in choosing  who to vote for.

  Interestingly, most americans do not see Trump as religious  but sometimes religion defines a president, as in JFK .

Jimmy Carter

George W Bush

William Mckinley 

James Madison

and Abraham Lincoln. are considered the most religious of historical US presidents.

James  A Garfield is the only clergyman to become a president 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Mr Walker

[GoldenWolf 3,361]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:56 PM, Scudbuster said:

Well i think I think I have a pretty good sense of things.....and here's a short video helping to explain how sick all this BS is:

 

He advertises himself as a lion.  But the Christians always ignore the bible passages about lions, except Jesus being "The Lion of Judah".