your perception of people with no masks

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I've seen you slip this in to a few posts now, totally unrelated to the topic at hand, just your TDS showing.  I bring it up, not as a defense of Trump, but to explain a little how the draft worked.  If you could get out of it by merely claiming an ailment then almost no one would have gone.  People went to jail for trying to avoid the draft, others went to Canada.  In other words, people were willing to disrupt their lives to avoid having the government disrupt it for them.  Too bad they didn't know you could just claim to be infirm.  If there was a valid medical reason to not be accepted, they told you what it was after all their testing, you didn't tell them.  They weren't really interested in what you had to say.  I know nothing about Trump's case because I don't care, but since soldiers spend a lot of time marching any foot problems would be magnified.  Why take someone who could slow down the whole unit when there were so many others to choose from?  It's the same with disability.  It's easy to think people fake it, until you're involved in it.  When I applied for disability it came down to a court case.  They had their doctors and I had mine.  Both sides took xrays.  They had input from an occupational specialist and of course lawyers all around.  All heard and decided upon by a Federal judge.  They didn't care what I had to say except in response to their questions.  It was all based on facts and the law.  I came out of there thinking that if anyone could fake their way through all of that they probably deserve it too, in lieu of an Academy Award.

Yet two of our president did dodge the draft during the viet nam war.  You can claim anything to dodge the draft  if you have enough money and connections. 

[Big Jim]

18 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You can claim anything to dodge the draft  if you have enough money and connections. 

NEWS FLASH:  money and power makes life easier.  

It's also possible that their claims were valid, in spite of being rich or connected.  Do you have medical documents that would prove otherwise?

Elvis was drafted and spent time in the army.  Muhammed Ali was drafted and spent time in jail.  Money and connections don't hold much sway with the SSS.

[+Desertrat56]

7 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

NEWS FLASH:  money and power makes life easier.  

It's also possible that their claims were valid, in spite of being rich or connected.  Do you have medical documents that would prove otherwise?

Elvis was drafted and spent time in the army.  Muhammed Ali was drafted and spent time in jail.  Money and connections don't hold much sway with the SSS.

When Mohamed Ali was drafted his name was Cassious Clay and he was jailed for defying his draft notice in a very public manner, at the time he had no money to pay anyone off so I don't understand why you mention him at all, I also don't understand why you mention Elvis, except as a good example against some bad examples.

Money and connections do hold much with any government entity in this country even 50 years ago.  Maybe Trump did have bone spurs but he could have afforded surgery to correct them.  I just looked it up and Bush completed his 2 years military duty in training.  Then did not complete his 4 years that he signed up for in the National Air Guard.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Big Jim]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

When Mohamed Ali was drafted his name was Cassious Clay

I thought about using that name for accuracy sake but I figured a lot of our younger members might not know who he was.  It was such a quibbling point and had no bearing on why I mentioned him, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.  

[+Desertrat56]

17 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I thought about using that name for accuracy sake but I figured a lot of our younger members might not know who he was.  It was such a quibbling point and had no bearing on why I mentioned him, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.  

Well, my main point was that it has no comparison to rich people buying their way out of the draft.  He wasn't rich at the time even though he was famous for people who followed boxing, and even if he was rich, he may not have been able to buy his way out of it because of his skin color.

[Big Jim]

8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

because of his skin color.

It's all about the color of money.  Why quibble over all of this?  Does any of it detract from the point I was trying to make?  That dodging the draft isn't as easy as some people seem to think it was.  It's like trying to dodge your taxes.  Sure some people, mostly the rich, get away with it, but overall the IRS usually wins in the end.  When they're caught even the rich go to jail.  We hear about the big stories because they're the exception, not the rule.  We don't hear from the millions who fight the government and lose because they're in jail or homeless.  The IRS brought down Al Capone when the FBI couldn't. The SSS had the power to pluck you out of your life and send you to die in a jungle.  They didn't care about your ailments unless they brought it up.    During the Civil War the rich could hire the poor to go die in their place with no repercussions whatsoever.  I guess we haven't really changed the outcome, just the process.

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, Big Jim said:

It's all about the color of money.  Why quibble over all of this?  Does any of it detract from the point I was trying to make?  That dodging the draft isn't as easy as some people seem to think it was.  It's like trying to dodge your taxes.  Sure some people, mostly the rich, get away with it, but overall the IRS usually wins in the end.  When they're caught even the rich go to jail.  We hear about the big stories because they're the exception, not the rule.  We don't hear from the millions who fight the government and lose because they're in jail or homeless.  The IRS brought down Al Capone when the FBI couldn't. The SSS had the power to pluck you out of your life and send you to die in a jungle.  They didn't care about your ailments unless they brought it up.    During the Civil War the rich could hire the poor to go die in their place with no repercussions whatsoever.  I guess we haven't really changed the outcome, just the process.

Yes it does.  Mentioning Elvis and Cassius Clay seem irrelevant to the discussion in my opinion.  I don't disagree with your point, it is difficult to dodge the draft unless you are rich and connected.

[Big Jim]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Mentioning Elvis and Cassius Clay seem irrelevant to the discussion in my opinion. 

Then why not just ignore it?  

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Then why not just ignore it?  

Because I am a compulsive control freak.

[the13bats]

4 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I've seen you slip this in to a few posts now, totally unrelated to the topic at hand, just your TDS showing.  I bring it up, not as a defense of Trump, but to explain a little how the draft worked.  If you could get out of it by merely claiming an ailment then almost no one would have gone.  People went to jail for trying to avoid the draft, others went to Canada.  In other words, people were willing to disrupt their lives to avoid having the government disrupt it for them.  Too bad they didn't know you could just claim to be infirm.  If there was a valid medical reason to not be accepted, they told you what it was after all their testing, you didn't tell them.  They weren't really interested in what you had to say.  I know nothing about Trump's case because I don't care, but since soldiers spend a lot of time marching any foot problems would be magnified.  Why take someone who could slow down the whole unit when there were so many others to choose from?  It's the same with disability.  It's easy to think people fake it, until you're involved in it.  When I applied for disability it came down to a court case.  They had their doctors and I had mine.  Both sides took xrays.  They had input from an occupational specialist and of course lawyers all around.  All heard and decided upon by a Federal judge.  They didn't care what I had to say except in response to their questions.  It was all based on facts and the law.  I came out of there thinking that if anyone could fake their way through all of that they probably deserve it too, in lieu of an Academy Award.

Jim, you are correct i do slip in trumps draft dodging by claiming bone spurs,  i also "slip in" his affairs with sex trade workers he tried to pay hush money to and his grossly incompetent epic fail covid response,

I believe you are bringing it up to try to defend and take focus off another trump blunder or you wouldn't have made a lame attempt at a jab, well played old man.

I wear that whole "you hate, you got TDS" bs from empty trump worshippers like a medal. I am the class clown, and if you laugh at the clown the clown wins, if the clown laughs at you the clown wins.

But nothing funny about draft dodging, and sure like any system its abused, of course some rich and shameless have used power and money ( they go together ) to get out of things,

In trumps case none of us have seen his medical record which of course could be faked, the dr was a friend of trumps dad, and for a guy who alwsys wants proof like obamas birth certificate trump has never been one to ante up proof of his own claims, you mention marching and bad feet, hasnt hurt trump marching around golf courses.

I personally have mixed feelings about a draft, force a person to fight? Imnsho i would speculate that a % wouldnt have their heart in it and be lets say lack luster perhaps placing others in danger, i would much rather have people who want to go fight join up, i very well could be flawed in my thinking there but we know someone here will "set me straight" .

So in this case do i think in my opinion trump used whatever means necessary to avoid military service which could have included fuctious bone spurs? You bet, a lot of people feel that way.

Can i or do i even want to prove it? Nope, i want others to do their own thinking make up their own minds about it,  i made up my mind about it, but the fact is a lot of people dodge the draft and i really dont have my nickers in a knot over it.

I hope that clarified.

Edited September 23, 2020 by the13bats

[spartan max2]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:16 AM, Desertrat56 said:

Yet two of our president did dodge the draft during the viet nam war.  You can claim anything to dodge the draft  if you have enough money and connections. 

Some of my older clients told me they got their masters degrees simply to dodge the draft.

[glorybebe]

I had a customer yesterday who said he couldn't wear a mask due to health issues, then proceeded to keep getting closer and closer.   If you won't wear a mask, keep a distance

[+Desertrat56]

38 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Some of my older clients told me they got their masters degrees simply to dodge the draft.

Yes.  It was a way to dodge the draft, a more honorable way since they are probably (I hope) productive citizens in the long run, people who might not have survived the war.   I just get irked when politicians claim to be patriots but expect people to do what they would not.  Even the british aristocracy was expected to serve in the military in some way.  In Germany every man (in the 70's) was expected to give 2 years either to the military or some other government entity when they turned 18.  I don't know if they still do that but it makes a lot of sense to me.  If they were in a wheelchair they still had to do 2 years behind a desk or in any capacity they were able.

[fred_mc]

On 9/18/2020 at 11:59 AM, fred_mc said:

I live in Sweden where people in general don't wear masks. If I see a person wearing a mask I see it as strange, I almost get a little scared when I see a person who is wearing a mask.

Damn, after I wrote that the company I'm working for introduced mandatory mask wearing so now I have to wear a mask when I'm at work ... but my company wants everybody who can to work at home.

[tmcom]

14 hours ago, fred_mc said:

Damn, after I wrote that the company I'm working for introduced mandatory mask wearing so now I have to wear a mask when I'm at work ... but my company wants everybody who can to work at home.

I tried to walk into a gov, department yesterday, and was stopped at the door since l wasn't wearing one, then after asking a barradge of questions, was told that since l had an exemption, even if l wore a mask, still couldn't enter.

So if l put one on and kept the certificate hidden l could have entered????

It is getting quite ape-s.... here, with demented health experts, (lol) relying on bent experts and junk science sites giving advise on whether they work or not.

Sutton, VIC/AU won't even give country Victorians a break today with a heatwave set to happen, and still says put one on.

I expect heatstroke victims will far outstrip Covid cases, but as long as they don't die of Covid!

[the13bats]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:41 PM, glorybebe said:

I had a customer yesterday who said he couldn't wear a mask due to health issues, then proceeded to keep getting closer and closer.   If you won't wear a mask, keep a distance

Since the mess started i have told several rude ass dbags to back the f up when they were both not wearing a mask and in my space they always look at me like a shocked deer in headlights, then decide to stop while ahead and move on grumbling.

17 minutes ago, tmcom said:

It is getting quite ape-s.... here, with demented health experts, (lol) relying on bent experts and junk science sites giving advise on whether they work or not

Get ready, iirc you arent in America but with potus mr denounce science and health experts "they're idiots, i am a game show host whose smarter than them" now being admitted to the hospital with covid and most of his crew testing + at least here the mask idea will get a whole new light.