Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...

[+Sherapy]

49 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Emotions are most often produced by stimuli, but the choice of which stimuli to pursue makes a huge difference in the outcome.

Two extreme examples would be Jimmy Carter and Ted Bundy. Former President Carter has spent half his lifetime building homes for indigent families, and the resulting sense of satisfaction no doubt leads to greater joy for himself, and more homes for other people. Ted Bundy was stimulated by behavior that led to death and destruction for other people, and his addiction to the stimuli only increased his own selfish, psychopathic behavior.

In my own life, my pursuit of the false joy in drugs and alcohol led to anxiety and a sense of worthlessness. By the grace of God, I had a moment of clarity that set me on a different path that has led to less focus on my own personal fulfillment, and more focus on other people. The false allure of selfish-ness is a downward path. The “Love your neighbor as yourself” concept produces better outcomes (and better emotions) for yourself and everyone around you.

 

I work as a professional caregiver the opportunity to practice compassion, kindness and empathy and self care has its rewards, but to be honest it is refined and understood In part because of the challenging aspects. 

I agree, Self care is important because you (general) cannot give what you yourself don’t practice. 

I think the distinction is in whether we react or respond. It sounds like you decided to live your life with care and as a result do less harm to yourself and others. Great job, Bill. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."      Macbeth

[+Hammerclaw]

The only meaning of life is that life IS. Any other meanings and connotations are fabrications bestowed upon it by human consciousness and self-awareness.

[+Sherapy]

16 minutes ago, Guyver said:

No, he isn’t.  He’s making the choice to view life as he wishes to, which is the same thing that everyone else does to some degree.  For me, when I found “peace and happiness” I also found boredom.  So, there’s a trade off there as I see it.  But, those chemicals in the brain are real.  If they were not real, we wouldn’t experience the pleasures you mentioned.  In any event, I’d take addiction to pie over addiction to meth any day as I think it would be much easier to get off pie than meth when the pleasure ran its course and brought pain, FWIW.

Indeed, at times people do prefer the mental narrative or escape route over the actuality, and depending on the circumstances it maybe the best ones got. At times, it is when one hits the bottom they then can see a way up. Just my two cents. 
 

 

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But yes, we are all going to die, some a peaceful, good death, and some not so peaceful..

I know which one I prefer.

Hi Crazy Horse

Preferring something does not mean that you actually have a choice when it comes to dying, you get what you get so no point in worrying about it. The best one can do is live a healthy life

 

[+Sherapy]

Jay, very well said. I have seen a lot of interesting endings working around death.  One will have not have a choice on dying but they do have a choice how they face it or not and there is really no right or wrong way, it is what it is. 

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

Preferring something does not mean that you actually have a choice when it comes to dying, you get what you get so no point in worrying about it. The best one can do is live a healthy life

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Jay, very well said. I have seen a lot of interesting endings working around death. 

Hi Sheri

Yes of course you would and everyone will handle it differently. Some in extreme pain or discomfort can be quite angry and others will have found a peace, there can be resignation or fear each of us will face that challenge one day in our own way and attitude in life or death is important.

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sheri

Yes of course you would and everyone will handle it differently. Some in extreme pain or discomfort can be quite angry and others will have found a peace, there can be resignation or fear each of us will face that challenge one day in our own way and attitude in life or death is important.

Exactly, there is always some fear to contend with at first with a terminal diagnosis, many push thru rather quick, only the egotistical claim otherwise. I have only seen one person who refused to die as a result of her fear yet, she died none the less. But, as we say in hospice it is the persons show and they can face their ending however they want. There really is no right or wrong way. 

[XenoFish]

14 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Exactly, there is always some fear to contend with at first with a terminal diagnosis, many push thru rather quick, only the egotistical claim otherwise. I have only seen one person who refused to die as a result of her fear yet, she died none the less. But, as we say in hospice it is the persons show and they can face their ending however they want. There really is no right or wrong way. 

I do think that some go through the stages of grief regarding their own existence.

[+Sherapy]

Just now, XenoFish said:

I do think that some go through the stages of grief regarding their own existence.

Absolutely.

[Guyver]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

No he's willfully ignoring the answer he asked for regarding feelings. 

That doesn’t make him stupid and saying so is impolite.  IMHO.  FWIW.

[Guyver]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

No he's willfully ignoring the answer he asked for regarding feelings. 

Not that I haven’t done it myself, so I don’t want to play the hypocrite…so, maybe nevermind me.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Guyver

[Guyver]

8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I do think that some go through the stages of grief regarding their own existence.

Since everyone dies, some before others, we all have terminal illness and our end is worms and dirt - for all we know and can prove.  But I am struggling with grief regarding my existence and I am “healthy.”  So….I just think we are all in a mess here and trying to figure it out.  Regarding the OP.  I have done virtuous living as a practice for many years as I practiced my religion, as you practiced dark arts.  Did it serve me?  Well, at the time I thought it was I who was being of service and there was a certain joy in that.  Unfortunately for me it turned into a sort of “spiritual pride” if you can accept that oxymoron.  Perhaps I should say religious pride.  I thought I was better than others because I believed I was serving God and my fellow man.  This, I believed, made me better than others, like the Mormons and Catholics whom I believed were going to hell because they weren’t saved and didn’t believe in Jesus.  The ultimate irony?  I no longer believe in Jesus myself.  Maybe now the Catholics and Mormons think I’m going to hell lol.

[Grim Reaper 6]

10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

And he will suffer when life doesn’t show up happy and meaningful on the attachment/preference path.  Otherwise one prefers exactly what shows up. Not easy for anyone. 

As someone who follows the middle path you know as do I that life is painful. However based upon our own personal actions we have the ability to change how painful life can be simply by how we react to events in our own lives. These events can and in most cases are events of our making, however there are also events that are completely beyond our control. But what many people don’t realize it is not only the event that causes sadness or tragedy in our lives it is also the way we each choose to handle those events when they occur. Our actions during these trying times will either bring us more pain or allow us to find the good in all bad things. This is the cycle of life and to have those happy times we all treasure its all based upon our individual actions and how we handle the bad things that occur along the path of life.

 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

35 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Since everyone dies, some before others, we all have terminal illness and our end is worms and dirt - for all we know and can prove.  But I am struggling with grief regarding my existence and I am “healthy.”  So….I just think we are all in a mess here and trying to figure it out.  Regarding the OP.  I have done virtuous living as a practice for many years as I practiced my religion, as you practiced dark arts.  Did it serve me?  Well, at the time I thought it was I who was being of service and there was a certain joy in that.  Unfortunately for me it turned into a sort of “spiritual pride” if you can accept that oxymoron.  Perhaps I should say religious pride.  I thought I was better than others because I believed I was serving God and my fellow man.  This, I believed, made me better than others, like the Mormons and Catholics whom I believed were going to hell because they weren’t saved and didn’t believe in Jesus.  The ultimate irony?  I no longer believe in Jesus myself.  Maybe now the Catholics and Mormons think I’m going to hell lol.

There is nothing wrong with having some form of spirituality, that can give you strength to deal with events life throws at us all. I like your honesty, about openly saying your religious beliefs made you feel like your were better than others and that is a flaw we all share. But, realizing your mistake is priceless because most never come to that understanding. You see the flaw was not your practiced spirituality it was the way you allowed it to control your thinking. You see the fault of looking down on others is not a religious trait, it’s a personal way of thinking. Whether you practice a spiritual belief or not doesn’t matter because you obviously know what’s right and wrong. When we become self centered or view those we encounter as not equal or below us it time to re-evaluate the why we think, so in my opinion your experience has been valuable and your certainly on the right path. 
 

JIMO

[Grim Reaper 6]

While this is an old thread there are some very good points made. But I think it’s important to remember that while we all have different ideas and thoughts about the subject none of us have all the answers. I think that maybe we can all learn something from each other, what’s most important is what works best for us. Its great to offer advice to others, but when we reach a point where we think our way is the only way, it’s time to reevaluate ourselves.

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

As someone who follows the middle path you know as do I that life is painful. However based upon our own personal actions we have the ability to change how painful life can be simply by how we react to events in our own lives. These events can and in most cases are events of our making, however there are also events that are completely beyond our control. But what many people don’t realize it is not only the event that causes sadness or tragedy in our lives it is also the way we each choose to handle those events when they occur. Our actions during these trying times will either bring us more pain or allow us to find the good in all bad things. This is the cycle of life and to have those happy times we all treasure its all based upon our individual actions and how we handle the bad things that occur along the path of life.

 

 

Very beautifully said. And from my own life sometimes things happen that are just sad and that is okay too I lost my sister to murder and my best friend to suicide and I respected and honored the grieving process and I extend the same to all others~ it takes what it takes.  I am only grateful for my time with them even though our time was cut short, and not a day passes that I don’t miss them too.  All the best to you and your wife, my friend. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sherapy

[Grim Reaper 6]

27 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Very beautifully said. And from my own life sometimes things happen that are just sad and that is okay too I lost my sister to murder and my best friend to suicide and I respected and honored the grieving process and I extend the same to all others~ it takes what it takes.  I am only grateful for my time with them even though our time was cut short, and not a day passes that I don’t miss them too.  All the best to you and your wife, my friend. 

Thank you very much, it’s what my life has brought me to believe. While I certainly don’t always make the right choices I do hopefully learn from my mistakes for the most part, that the best I am capable of doing.

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thank you very much, it’s what my life has brought me to believe. While I certainly don’t always make the right choices I do hopefully learn from my mistakes for the most part, that the best I am capable of doing.

Same here my friend. Life has its up and downs for us all. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

 

Yes it certainly does!

Thanks

[Crazy Horse]

21 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Not so,  CH some deal with exactly what shows up and go from there. 
 

 

That's why I said, "If one has a choice."

If one can live in the present moment, a choice-less life, (something I am starting to realise) then you have cracked it, (the ego) and are Realised.

Have you managed to remain in this present moment, this choice-less state of being, for more than an hour, Sheri?

[Crazy Horse]

21 hours ago, Sherapy said:

What is wrong with the life you do have? 

There is nothing wrong with my life at the moment..

Only, if one were more peaceful, then, the moment of Enlightenment would be THAT much closer...

Something I would be very happy about.

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

That's why I said, "If one has a choice."

If one can live in the present moment, a choice-less life, (something I am starting to realise) then you have cracked it, (the ego) and are Realised.

Have you managed to remain in this present moment, this choice-less state of being, for more than an hour, Sheri?

So you've decided to become a zombie, running on auto pilot. Which means you didn't choose anything nor can you.

[Crazy Horse]

20 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

Preferring something does not mean that you actually have a choice when it comes to dying, you get what you get so no point in worrying about it. The best one can do is live a healthy life

 

And meditating, giving joyously, helping, laughing and loving too...

To name just a few helpful things.

All of which are a personal choice.

Although there are few guarantees….

Unless one is enlightened.

[Crazy Horse]

21 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The only meaning of life is that life IS. Any other meanings and connotations are fabrications bestowed upon it by human consciousness and self-awareness.

I can agree with that H.

Only, its ones ego, and the egos perceptions and perspectives, that are projected out-wards.

And I would also mark the difference between human consciousness, and the mind. The mind is the power tool, consciousness is the power source.