Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...

[+Sherapy]

14 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

So beautiful. I think this applies to females too. I personally find it a great honor to have my husband to love, a place he comes home to (me) that is also full of love  and warmth, affection, compassion and kindness. As a Zen practitioner, this relationship offers many opportunities to practice.and grow into. 
 

Thank you for this quote what a wonderful reminder. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Sherapy

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

So beautiful. I think this applies to females too. I personally find it a great honor to have my husband to love, a place he comes home to (me) that is also full of love  and warmth, affection, compassion and kindness. As a Zen practitioner, this relationship offers many opportunities to practice.and grow into. 
 

Thank you for this quote what a wonderful reminder. 

I did not write the quote I took an existing Buddhist quote and added to it. But thanks all the same, I am glad some found meaning in it.

Thanks very much for your kind words Sheri!

[Abramelin]

On 1/2/2022 at 5:00 AM, jmccr8 said:

the only time I have posted a pic on the net

I remember you posted a photo of yourself on my now long dead and gone site. I also remember you posted a photo of your daughter. She looked pretty, and I first assumed she was your wife, lol!

[XenoFish]

Wouldn't the better reward to living a virtuous life, be the knowledge that you attempted too be your best self. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

22 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Wouldn't the better reward to living a virtuous life, be the knowledge that you attempted too be your best self. 

Careful Xeno, you are about a whisker away from your arch-nemesis 'the meaning of life' with the above.  

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Careful Xeno, you are about a whisker away from your arch-nemesis 'the meaning of life' with the above.  

There are only meaningful things. Life doesn't have a meaning and it shouldn't. We can only make of it what we wish. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

There are only meaningful things. Life doesn't have a meaning and it shouldn't. We can only make of it what we wish. 

Agreed, I'm just noting that you put it very well and succinctly.  For a lot of people, attempting to live a virtuous life and be their best selves is the meaning of life.

[+Sherapy]

42 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Wouldn't the better reward to living a virtuous life, be the knowledge that you attempted too be your best self. 

I like this, for me, just living my best self thru the vehicle of my life works I think a lot of paths can be virtuous and rewarding even a path that has more than its fair share of suffering. 

[XenoFish]

I decided to come off caffeine this year. So I'm a bit like the above.

[Abramelin]

4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I remember you posted a photo of yourself on my now long dead and gone site. I also remember you posted a photo of your daughter. She looked pretty, and I first assumed she was your wife, lol!

She looked African-American, and from what you told me afterwards, I understood your ex was a Cuban lady. But I am not sure I remember well.

Btw., an archived link to my old website (and for those who don't know: I am "Blackbeard". I had changed my former username "Abramelin") ; the site was about anything 'Carlos Castaneda' and lots of other things:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708133528/http://www.artforthemasses.us/castacon/index.php

Sorry.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Abramelin

[XenoFish]

3 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Agreed, I'm just noting that you put it very well and succinctly.  For a lot of people, attempting to live a virtuous life and be their best selves is the meaning of life.

 

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I like this, for me, just living my best self thru the vehicle of my life works I think a lot of paths can be virtuous and rewarding even a path that has more than its fair share of suffering. 

I honestly wonder how virtuous some would be without their religions/spiritual belief system. I can understand that to some it is a self-regulation method. Holding them to what is deemed "good" through fear of deity. However, if they are only good due to this fear. How good a person are they really? 

[+Liquid Gardens]

43 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

However, if they are only good due to this fear. How good a person are they really?

Good question, that's part of the reason I try to apply a Christian teaching which works for all belief systems as far as I'm concerned: we'll know them by their fruits.  If their fruits are good that's pretty much enough for me, whatever spiritual struggle they had to go through or whether they bore this good fruit out of selfish reasons I'll leave them to struggle with, I'm certainly not in enough of a non-hypocritical position myself to be able to judge them on the latter.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

Good question, that's part of the reason I try to apply a Christian teaching which works for all belief systems as far as I'm concerned: we'll know them by their fruits.  If their fruits are good that's pretty much enough for me, whatever spiritual struggle they had to go through or whether they bore this good fruit out of selfish reasons I'll leave them to struggle with, I'm certainly not in enough of a non-hypocritical position myself to be able to judge them on the latter.

What I find interesting is those individual that tend to harp on how righteous they are. The way I figure it is that it is between them and their god. 

[onlookerofmayhem]

11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What I find interesting is those individual that tend to harp on how righteous they are. The way I figure it is that it is between them and their god. 

Agreed.

I find it interesting that most self-proclaimed "enlightened" people are some of the most pretentious, annoying and self-righteous people I've encountered.

Is one really "enlightened" if they have to go around telling others how enlightened they are?

[XenoFish]

52 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Is one really "enlightened" if they have to go around telling others how enlightened they are?

Highly doubtful. It seems that 'enlightenment' is a rather vague concept. I see it similar to connecting to god, "now what?". I mean, if a person becomes enlightened or connects to god/divine they still have to eat, sleep, and excrete like the rest of us. In my eyes it appears to be a rather egotistical quest really.

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 

I honestly wonder how virtuous some would be without their religions/spiritual belief system. I can understand that to some it is a self-regulation method. Holding them to what is deemed "good" through fear of deity. However, if they are only good due to this fear. How good a person are they really? 

This is a good question. A story comes to mind. 
 

Recently on a job, a little boy of 5 wanted to show his little brother of 2 how to operate his battery operated car he got for Xmas, mom told big brother to let him ( little brother) try for himself but, he became very impatient and hit his little brother across the face, mom flew around the corner picked him up and ushered him out of the room for a “talk.”She came back and was standing next to me and said I threatened him with something I am never going to do and she started crying and told her husband that they needed to sit down and brain storm and come up with something else that this way wasn’t working for what she wanted to teach, kindness and empathy towards siblings. She is an Italian Catholic thru and thru one that I’d say very fear based used her fear to troubleshoot to be a better parent. I have observed her parenting over the past 3 years and I by far think she is the best mother I have ever known. I think sometimes fear of can be a good thing. Just my two cents. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I think sometimes fear of can be a good thing.

If it generates a heathy level of caution I suppose it would be. If it creates crippling fear where a person is too afraid to do anything, then it's psychologically harmful. 

[jmccr8]

7 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I remember you posted a photo of yourself on my now long dead and gone site. I also remember you posted a photo of your daughter. She looked pretty, and I first assumed she was your wife, lol!

Hi Rob

Yes I forgot about that. and have sent some to a couple of friends in PMs but those are not public

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Abramelin said:

She looked African-American, and from what you told me afterwards, I understood your ex was a Cuban lady. But I am not sure I remember well.

Btw., an archived link to my old website (and for those who don't know: I am "Blackbeard". I had changed my former username "Abramelin") ; the site was about anything 'Carlos Castaneda' and lots of other things:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708133528/http://www.artforthemasses.us/castacon/index.php

Sorry.

Hi Rob

Yes her mother is Jamaican and my daughter and grand-daughter are good looking girls, Izzy has grown quite a bit since those pics and is as tall as her mom now.

[Mr Walker]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:20 PM, eight bits said:

Virtuous conduct, indeed, @Mr Walker.

Well done.

As i said to the reporter for the local paper: 

It is fun. I get social contact,   purpose, and thousands of free books and dvds  from it 

Not sure if it counts as virtuous  conduct, if you are getting a lot of pleasure from  it   

On the other hand it is something I can contribute to the community which the y value, and do from  home,  so that i can continue to care for my wife.  

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Highly doubtful. It seems that 'enlightenment' is a rather vague concept. I see it similar to connecting to god, "now what?". I mean, if a person becomes enlightened or connects to god/divine they still have to eat, sleep, and excrete like the rest of us. In my eyes it appears to be a rather egotistical quest really.

True. but not egotistical  It is really more like the difference between being able to read and write, and not being able to  Or the difference between having a really good singing voice and being tone deaf.

You aren't egotistical just because you can read and write,  although in some places (eg where others could not read/write),  that might cause you to become egotistical

[Abramelin]

13 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You aren't egotistical just because you can read and write,  although in some places (eg where others could not read/write),  that might cause you to become egotistical

This is of course 1st class bull.

Being able to write *might* also cause you to become a serial killer, or a shoemaker.

 

How much longer do we have to endure this Chinese torture?

[+Sherapy]

23 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If it generates a heathy level of caution I suppose it would be. If it creates crippling fear where a person is too afraid to do anything, then it's psychologically harmful. 

Indeed, good point, I kept from using drugs as a way to cope with a very abusive childhood due to being in sheer terror of the drug, namely heroin.  I have used terror of to become proactive when I cared for Helen the women who was a sociopath, but you are correct had I not have gotten into therapy to manage the extreme stress it my have lead to a lot of chronic health issues down the road. 
 

 

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed, good point, I kept from using drugs as a way to cope with a very abusive childhood due to being in sheer terror of the drug, namely heroin.  I have used terror of to become proactive when I cared for Helen the women who was a sociopath, but you are correct had I not have gotten into therapy to manage the extreme stress it my have lead to a lot of chronic health issues down the road. 
 

 

I do think that for some people religion/spirituality is their coping mechanism for dealing with life. Be it a social or emotional need. As I've mentioned before that prayer can be a stress managing method. I just think there is a fine line between faith and fanaticism. From humility to sheer egotism. I do think that some practices are just egotistical disguised as spiritual. I mean, what better way to inflate the sense of self by claiming or seeking a connection to God. Same would apply to enlightenment. Then you toss in some obessive desires and you get a rather fanatical point of view on things.

In terms of personal victory. I never followed the alcholic path like my father and his father. Nothing good came from that and I'm glad my dad's been sober for 36 years.

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I do think that for some people religion/spirituality is their coping mechanism for dealing with life. Be it a social or emotional need. As I've mentioned before that prayer can be a stress managing method. I just think there is a fine line between faith and fanaticism. From humility to sheer egotism. I do think that some practices are just egotistical disguised as spiritual. I mean, what better way to inflate the sense of self by claiming or seeking a connection to God. Same would apply to enlightenment. Then you toss in some obessive desires and you get a rather fanatical point of view on things.

In terms of personal victory. I never followed the alcholic path like my father and his father. Nothing good came from that and I'm glad my dad's been sober for 36 years.

Kudo’s to you and your dad. 

 

Yes, yes, yes, I think the points you bring in could make an interesting thread. Let’s brainstorm one together.