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Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...


Ajay0
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31 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Nup.  strange as it might seem :)  I understand him.

  I dont agree with all his beliefs and conclusions, but  he is easily comprehensible once you have a similar understanding and appreciation;  and, within that framework, makes a great deal of sense. 

It is interesting, really. 

In many ways his and my own concepts are Buddhist in nature, but then, to get back to the OP/ thread,  IMO  Christianity, Buddhism and many  other beliefs are different forms of one universal truth.

I think you two should become Partners and live together, that would make you both complete!:yes:

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1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

You are right, there is no understanding because you keep on criticizing without any actual examples..

How is one supposed to explain oneself with-out first understanding the accusation?

Give a concrete example of my confused ideas, or better still, just ask a question.

Every time you use the word God within the context of a discussion of Buddhist beliefs you are mixing Christianity with Buddhism. Go back and read your comments you do it frequently, there is one example!:yes: You also continue to use the word soul, there is another example!:yes:

Hope that helps!:yes:

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57 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Every time you use the word God within the context of a discussion of Buddhist beliefs you are mixing Christianity with Buddhism. Go back and read your comments you do it frequently, there is one example!:yes: You also continue to use the word soul, there is another example!:yes:

Hope that helps!:yes:

He is neither Christian nor Buddhist, but practices his own unique and personal syncretic religion, drawing on multiple, often contradictory, religious sources. You might call it a designer religion, tailored to his own particular needs. He ministers to a congregation of one, himself.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

He is neither Christian nor Buddhist, but practices his own unique and personal syncretic religion, drawing on multiple, often contradictory religious sources. You might call it a designer religion, tailored to his own particular needs. He ministers to a congregation of one, himself.

A Frankenstein patchwork of beliefs. I suspected as much.

Edited by XenoFish
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4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

He is neither Christian nor Buddhist, but practices his own unique and personal syncretic religion, drawing on multiple, often contradictory, religious sources. You might call it a designer religion, tailored to his own particular needs. He ministers to a congregation of one, himself.

Yea I told him that some many posts ago, I don’t even remember which one it was, I am exhausted. Mr. Walker says he understands him thought, so I told Walker they should become partners. Live together and complete each other and that may actually work!:yes:

Edited by Manwon Lender
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5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yea I told him that some many posts ago, I don’t even remember which one it was, I am exhausted. Mr. Walker says he understands him thought, so I told Walker they should become partners. Live together and complete each other and that may actually work!:yes:

They'd mix about as well as Farrakhan and Joel Osteen.

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22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

They'd mix about as well as Farrakhan and Joel Osteen.

I think their biggest problem would be trying to figure out WHO’S the daddy!:lol:

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50 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

He is neither Christian nor Buddhist, but practices his own unique and personal syncretic religion, drawing on multiple, often contradictory, religious sources. You might call it a designer religion, tailored to his own particular needs. He ministers to a congregation of one, himself.

Indeed, I don’t think it is anything more than a mix of SDA, wild imagination and video games, I am thinking his congregation now has two, it seems CH is a convert.:P

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5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

It is well past simple mindlessness which in itself is a dead end  but a useful stepping stone in clearing the  mind for improvement It is the equivalent of knocking an old structure down to prepare the way for a new one 

And yep i was thinking like that as 3 year old. i was also reading non picture books around that age  thanks to some excellent genetics and parenting.

  I remember when (and where)  i first became aware of my stream of consciousness.

It scared  me and my mother explained what it was, and how i constructed it 

How do I pin the age down. I was born in 1951.

My brother  was born in 1955 In between, my mother had a miscarriage While i had no conscious awareness of this  at the time, I  became convinced  that i was responsible for this death I knew i hadn't physically harmed the child but decided i must have willed it to death with my mind.

So i decided right then never to have a thought i did not shape and form consciously  It took over a decade but i achieved this. 

Yes. I am aware that you think “repression” is some kind of gnosis.:P I am glad you have some kind of coping system beyond that we have nothing to discuss. 
 

I am interested in science based Mindfulness and while your opinion is duly noted to borrow from a friend ZAP-ZAP, in other words I am leaving the discussion as it isn’t about mindfulness. 
 

All the best. 

 

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Perhaps the most egotistical thing is to think one can connect to God, maybe even enlightenment is just as egotistical?!? 

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5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I am interested in science based Mindfulness

Don't kid yourself. You want superpowers like the rest of us.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

Again folks, stop it with the discussing each other. Discuss the OP topic, not each other. Stop being derogatory about others faith systems and each other. 

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4 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

So what exactly do the Zen Masters have to say about consciousness?

And, I am still waiting for an answer to the question, how does one have a healthy relationship with ego?

You promised to answer a few different questions...

The best resource for understanding human consciousness is Neuroscience. You can Google a copy of “Neuroscience for Dummies” on line. 
 

Accepting that you have an ego and it is not a bad thing is the place to start.

 

I think the best advice for you came from Xeno just focus and put your energy into being a better person. 

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4 minutes ago, rashore said:

Again folks, stop it with the discussing each other. Discuss the OP topic, not each other. Stop being derogatory about others faith systems and each other. 

Kinda hard to discuss a faith based system when we have no clue what it is.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Kinda hard to discuss a faith based system when we have no clue what it is.

A few of you sure seem to have enough clue to talk smack about it and discuss other members about it. It needs to stop. Too many threads go down this path of preaching and belittling each other and getting personal about each other instead of discussing the topic and topic points being presented. I realize a lot of us here have been entangling for a long time now, but the vicious cycle of regularly dragging down threads with the nonsense just needs to stop. 

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7 minutes ago, rashore said:

A few of you sure seem to have enough clue to talk smack about it and discuss other members about it. It needs to stop. Too many threads go down this path of preaching and belittling each other and getting personal about each other instead of discussing the topic and topic points being presented. I realize a lot of us here have been entangling for a long time now, but the vicious cycle of regularly dragging down threads with the nonsense just needs to stop. 

Perhaps the smack is more a perceived slight rather than direct insult. With much of the smack being directed at us. Consider many of us are trying to figure out what the person in question actually believes. Only to get a constant run around. Clarification would work wonders. 

I'm well aware the direction these threads in this section take. They always go into tangents. Yet here we all are once again.

I for once would like actually understand the motives and reasoning behind a particular members beliefs. Might help not only myself, but others as well. 

Yet where does the sword always fall.

Edited by XenoFish
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Rashore I'm going to ask you the question. From what I understand is that the concept of God is love. So why would a person seek ego death just to feel love? Considering ego is needed for proper function, as it is for self regulation. Our sense of self being a different thing.

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28 minutes ago, rashore said:

A few of you sure seem to have enough clue to talk smack about it and discuss other members about it. It needs to stop. Too many threads go down this path of preaching and belittling each other and getting personal about each other instead of discussing the topic and topic points being presented. I realize a lot of us here have been entangling for a long time now, but the vicious cycle of regularly dragging down threads with the nonsense just needs to stop. 

Not trying to start anything, but you know and I both know there is a common denominator among all of those locked threads.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Perhaps the smack is more a perceived slight rather than direct insult. With much of the smack being directed at us. Consider many of us are trying to figure out what the person in question actually believes. Only to get a constant run around. Clarification would work wonders. 

I'm well aware the direction these threads in this section take. They always go into tangents. Yet here we all are once again.

I for once would like actually understand the motives and reasoning behind a particular members beliefs. Might help not only myself, but others as well. 

Yet where does the sword always fall.

Directed at you, you directing at others, others directing back around again. Not just perceived- a lot of threads have to get cleaned or closed because of the smack. They go into tangents, and so do those other folks too, including you sometimes. The sword falls on where the bad behavior needs to stop- and that happens across the spectrum, not just with particular members or on particular ends of belief spectrums and faiths. 

Maybe enlightenment can come from virtuous conduct, maybe not. But a good discussion here in this thread can be had if folks have the virtue to stick to the forum rules and just discuss the topic and not each other or get all derailed with side commentaries. Many of us have been able to enlighten each other in the past when we get past ourselves and that vicious cycle and just let it go... and then just talk about the topics. Maybe some enlightenment can come from realizing one might not ever understand what another believes no matter how many years they are questioned about it- and sometimes enlightenment can come from refraining from over-sharing ones positions long enough to just listen to others. 

Now, enough side tangent here about getting folks to just go with the site rules and have a discussion about the OP topic. If folks find it too difficult to just discuss the topic, they should step out of the conversation. If folks can't help but pick at each other, then a wisdom may be to put each other on ignore or just resist engaging. We can have a good conversation here folks, let's just stick to that. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, rashore said:

Directed at you, you directing at others, others directing back around again. Not just perceived- a lot of threads have to get cleaned or closed because of the smack. They go into tangents, and so do those other folks too, including you sometimes. The sword falls on where the bad behavior needs to stop- and that happens across the spectrum, not just with particular members or on particular ends of belief spectrums and faiths. 

Maybe enlightenment can come from virtuous conduct, maybe not. But a good discussion here in this thread can be had if folks have the virtue to stick to the forum rules and just discuss the topic and not each other or get all derailed with side commentaries. Many of us have been able to enlighten each other in the past when we get past ourselves and that vicious cycle and just let it go... and then just talk about the topics. Maybe some enlightenment can come from realizing one might not ever understand what another believes no matter how many years they are questioned about it- and sometimes enlightenment can come from refraining from over-sharing ones positions long enough to just listen to others. 

Now, enough side tangent here about getting folks to just go with the site rules and have a discussion about the OP topic. If folks find it too difficult to just discuss the topic, they should step out of the conversation. If folks can't help but pick at each other, then a wisdom may be to put each other on ignore or just resist engaging. We can have a good conversation here folks, let's just stick to that. 

 

 

We try to stick with it. As for enlightenment it is rather vague in and of itself. So say that doing X, Y, or Z will get you there makes it even more confusing. 

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

We try to stick with it. As for enlightenment it is rather vague in and of itself. So say that doing X, Y, or Z will get you there makes it even more confusing. 

Indeed it is vague. Everyone has their own personal versions of enlightenment. Probably why so many humans follow or fight about it. For some folks X,Y, or Z does get them there- for others it works differently. Enlightenment itself can take many forms, and not all of them are necessarily connected to spirituality. Sometimes enlightenment seems to be a road traveled alone, or a fight going upstream in the river of life, or a companionable journey amongst strangers and friends, or even just being still in ones own self. Sometimes the paths to enlightenments become tangled or fall afoul of repeated morasses- sometimes folks are able to rise up and get back going on the path, sometimes they keep falling back into those same old entanglements that lead nowhere.

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Just now, rashore said:

Indeed it is vague. Everyone has their own personal versions of enlightenment. Probably why so many humans follow or fight about it. For some folks X,Y, or Z does get them there- for others it works differently. Enlightenment itself can take many forms, and not all of them are necessarily connected to spirituality. Sometimes enlightenment seems to be a road traveled alone, or a fight going upstream in the river of life, or a companionable journey amongst strangers and friends, or even just being still in ones own self. Sometimes the paths to enlightenments become tangled or fall afoul of repeated morasses- sometimes folks are able to rise up and get back going on the path, sometimes they keep falling back into those same old entanglements that lead nowhere.

If I go by what happened in the original link, then I have obtained my own "enlightenment", as pessimistic as the results are. Yet can anyone honestly tell me I haven't? Yes, they can. They can debate my experience. Question the validity of it. It is up to me to answer the questions. Do I personally think I achieved such a thing, I don't know. 

So the real issue is the vagueness of a thing and lacking the willingness to answer questions. 

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9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You seem to be labouring under the impression that one may command GOD to obey ones orders..

That if someone set-up an experiment, that would compel GOD to "jump through hoops"..

One may do certain things that may increase the likelihood of a connection, and a union, with THAT, but it is GOD who knows ones heart, and so ultimately decides.

GOD isn't your pet science project.

Yet, one may know THAT for oneself.

 

Hi Crazy Horse

Why are up getting upset? No I am not laboring with with that impression at all, I don't know if god exists and make no demand of your god to obey me nor do I have an expectation of it jumping through hoops that is your projection on what you think I am saying.

No your god is not my science project and I am discussing your perception of what god means to you which are 2 different things. As I said I don't know if god exists, I have also told you in past that I think that for me god is a description of our ability to think and create so I am not looking for an exterior other to explain me or my existence I just am.

I do see evidence of the beliefs of others in god constructs which does not lead me to conclude that god exists only that the idea of a god can affect the lives of those that do have a belief in a god both constructively and destructively and that all the acts of faith are by individuals right or wrong. I don't claim that my construct is absolute only that is satisfies what I need in life to progress productively. My experience in life is that I know how people react to me, some with love and most by respect even by those that know that I have no god. I work mostly in home renovations so do get close personal exposure to people of every walk in life. Most of them see me as responsible and willing to work with them no matter what our personal beliefs are and have always developed what I call business friendships based on the respect we have for each other. It seems to work good enough that they call me back when they have other work they need done because they trust me and have been invited to come over for a bbq or share a meal with their family after the work has been completed.

I don't have a problem with people believing in things that I don't, good people are good people whether we share the same beliefs or not and I don't tell them what to believe and that is reciprocated in kind. 

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9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

What exactly is so obvious about my lack of understanding, of Buddhism?

Perhaps you could give an example?

And its not that I reject the OT, just that I never read it.

 

Hi Crazy Horse

I have been following your discussion with people that are Buddhists and Manwon has tried to give you insights and direction for a better understanding that you reject and try to argue from a partial Christian philosophy not to mention your expressions of meditation.

The old testament is the foundation for what the new testament is supposed to signify in the Christian belief system and plays an important role in the development of the Christ story so if you haven't read it you are playing with half a deck to start with and then you think that you can mix in aspects of other philosophies when the bible clearly states that is against god's will so I guess you are not jumping through god's hoops either. That is not to say that one should not be aware of other teachings but the practicing of them is forbidden.

I am not trying to fight with you or put you down we are just discussing and if you are going to claim to be Christian because you believe in Jesus it would be to you benefit to study not read all of the bible to get the full picture of what you have made a commitment to. Do not take my comments as speaking down to you, you believe in something great find out what it is I don't have a problem with it or you as you are not going to change what my life is and am encouraging you to seek out more from what you made a commitment to it is for your benefit not mine as I am content with what I have found.

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9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

What exactly is my definition of the ego?

Please do explain.

Hi Crazy Horse

Over the years the meaning has been given to you several times by both myself and several others but for your benefit here it is again.

 
 
 
 
e·go
/ˈēɡō/
 
noun
 
  1. a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.
    "a boost to my ego"
     
    Similar:
    the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity.
    • PHILOSOPHY
      (in metaphysics) a conscious thinking subject.
       
       
      noun, plural e·gos.
      the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.
      Psychoanalysis. the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.
      egotism; conceit; self-importance:Her ego becomes more unbearable each day.
      self-esteem or self-image; feelings:Your criticism wounded his ego.
      (often initial capital letter)Philosophy.
      1. the enduring and conscious element that knows experience.
      2. Scholasticism. the complete person comprising both body and soul.
      Ethnology. a person who serves as the central reference point in the study of organizational and kinship relationships.
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