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Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...


Ajay0
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14 hours ago, XenoFish said:

There are only meaningful things. Life doesn't have a meaning and it shouldn't. We can only make of it what we wish. 

I find that contradictory 

Life has the meaning we construct for it  Thus it has a meaning .(Meaning cannot be any more, nor less, than a human cognitive construct )

  People who construct NO meaning or purpose for their lives often  don't live long  enough to breed, and thus  genes which predispose us to lack of meaning or purpose are  evolved out of humanity, while those which predispose us  to make purpose and meaning, become almost universal   :) 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/5/2022 at 7:53 AM, Abramelin said:

This is of course 1st class bull.

Being able to write *might* also cause you to become a serial killer, or a shoemaker.

 

How much longer do we have to endure this Chinese torture?

Please explain any objection you have to what I see as absolute reality . 

Maybe I am missing something in your chain of thinking. 

Ego does not come from  accomplishments, but how we perceive those accomplishments. Like any component of our cognitive make up, it has two components  A little evolved/ genetic, and a lot of taught/learned .   

Some ego is required for a human to exist.

Too little, and that existence is compromised.

Too much, and it can also be damaged. 

xeno said this 

 I mean, if a person becomes enlightened or connects to god/divine they still have to eat, sleep, and excrete like the rest of us. In my eyes it appears to be a rather egotistical quest really.

 

My point was that a person who can read and write, also has to do all those everyday things.

However, they also have  have a skill and abilty which others may not .

Just wanting to  learn to read and write does not make one egotistical  Seeking for, and finding, enlightenment does not, either.

 Being able to read and write could cause a person's ego to swell, and so could becoming enlightened  but neither is a given . 

Enlightenment is a cognitive enhancement; a skill or abilty like being able to read or write.

What you DO with it is the important thing. 

I spent my life teaching others how to read and write , not with ego, but from a sense of duty and care.   I did so because  I was able to do so,  and had been given the privilege as a child of learning to read and write well, and the good fortune of gaining scholarships which paid my way through senior high school and university  .

I had been given a gift which I had an obligation to repay. 

Enlightenment can be approached in  the same way.

Those who have it may realise that it is a privilege and good fortune to do so . They would realise/know the benefits and empowerment it gives.

Thus they may  seek to help others to achieve it.  (or they might seek to profit from it, and   to gain a completive advantage over others. )

In brief, seeking enlightenment is no more or less egotistical than seeking to learn to read and write, or to ride a bike.  

Edited by Mr Walker
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You are so full of yourself, it's unbelievable you are a real living person.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You are so full of yourself, it's unbelievable you are a real living person.

So; no explanation, just personal commentary 

I understand why you feel this way, but do you ? 

 Again, what part of the above post is wrong, or do you disagree with, and why?  

 ie Are you reacting logically, or emotionally? 

I included a couple of lines about myself, to explain how I see duty/ obligation , towards any skill or abilty you are lucky enough (  or have the privilege)  to gain.

Perhaps you feel no such duty or obligation. 

Again, that  is how I was raised.

I can't take any credit for it. 

Do you feel it egotistical to seek to learn to read and write? 

Do you feel  it egotistical to seek enlightenment ?

If your answers are different to those two questions ,  then why are they ? 

 

 

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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36 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You are so full of yourself,

Putting it rather mildly.

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Quote

What is a egomaniac person?

“Egomania is an obsessive preoccupation with one's self and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation. Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac. The condition is psychologically abnormal.

 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Please explain any objection you have to what I see as absolute reality . 

Maybe I am missing something in your chain of thinking. 

Ego does not come from  accomplishments, but how we perceive those accomplishments. Like any component of our cognitive make up, it has two components  A little evolved/ genetic, and a lot of taught/learned .   

Some ego is required for a human to exist.

Too little, and that existence is compromised.

Too much, and it can also be damaged. 

xeno said this 

 I mean, if a person becomes enlightened or connects to god/divine they still have to eat, sleep, and excrete like the rest of us. In my eyes it appears to be a rather egotistical quest really.

 

My point was that a person who can read and write, also has to do all those everyday things.

However, they also have  have a skill and abilty which others may not .

Just wanting to  learn to read and write does not make one egotistical  Seeking for, and finding, enlightenment does not, either.

 Being able to read and write could cause a person's ego to swell, and so could becoming enlightened  but neither is a given . 

Enlightenment is a cognitive enhancement; a skill or abilty like being able to read or write.

What you DO with it is the important thing. 

I spent my life teaching others how to read and write , not with ego, but from a sense of duty and care.   I did so because  I was able to do so,  and had been given the privilege as a child of learning to read and write well, and the good fortune of gaining scholarships which paid my way through senior high school and university  .

I had been given a gift which I had an obligation to repay. 

Enlightenment can be approached in  the same way.

Those who have it may realise that it is a privilege and good fortune to do so . They would realise/know the benefits and empowerment it gives.

Thus they may  seek to help others to achieve it.  (or they might seek to profit from it, and   to gain a completive advantage over others. )

In brief, seeking enlightenment is no more or less egotistical than seeking to learn to read and write, or to ride a bike.  

“My point was that a person who can read and write, also has to do all those everyday things

However, they also have  have a skill and abilty which others may not “( Mr. Walker). 


 

An enlightened being demonstrates an exceptional capacity to be honest with others and themselves about humanness, there is no better than the self realized mind sees beyond comparison and judgements, the egocentric mind sees in terms of comparison and judgement. 
 

An enlightened person requires no validation from self or others because one has lost the sense of separate self, a good way to think of it is  “there by the grace of god go I too,” in other words, oneness not separateness and what is observed in all contexts is an incredible sense of empathy, compassion and kindness and connection to all.  One isn’t on UM behaving adversarially bragging/claiming/proselytizing (ego) they are enlightened. :P 

An enlightened person is free from attachment, (no need to be right) at this point, it would be fair to offer that the need to be right is your Achilles heel. 

It is more than fair to conclude that the speech you choose and the behaviors you demonstrate are those of an unenlightened human, just like the rest of us, myself included. :lol: With that being said, my two cents is the refrigerator side hustle specifically, the part of being of service to the community is a wonderful opportunity and choice by you to expose yourself and expand your perspective/awareness beyond me, myself and I.  

An add to: few in this lifetime are enlightened, in fact it is rare, and this includes you, me and the rest of us. 
 

 


 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

this includes you, me and the rest of us. 

My enlightenment is better than your enlightenment. :D

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

My enlightenment is better than your enlightenment. :D

Ahahahahaha great example of egoism. 

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4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Ahahahahaha great example of egoism. 

So few can match up to the bestestest.

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This has all been very enlightening!:nw:

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53 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

This has all been very enlightening!:nw:

“The state of ambiguity – that messy, greasy, mixed-up, confused, and awful situation you’re living through right now – is enlightenment itself.’ ~Brad Warner Zen teacher 

 

‘I laugh when I think how I once sought paradise as a realm outside of the world of birth. It is right in the world of birth and death that the miraculous truth is revealed. But this is not the laughter of someone who suddenly acquires a great fortune; neither is it the laughter of one who has won a victory. It is, rather, the laughter of one who; after having painfully searched for something for a long time, finds it one morning in the pocket of his coat.’ ~Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

"The Kingdom of Heaven is spread out upon the face of the Earth, but men do not see it." Jesus, from a Gnostic Scripture, The Gospel of Thomas.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Maximum Zen

1*8xraf6eyaXh-myNXOXkqLA.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

:w00t:

Edited by Hammerclaw
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I don't think that someone who is enlightened wouldn't think/claim that they are as they would still see themselves as seeking and not attained yet.

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1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

I don't think that someone who is enlightened wouldn't think/claim that they are as they would still see themselves as seeking and not attained yet.

"I am a man, like any other".   虔官昌

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2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

"I am a man, like any other".   虔官昌

Hi Hammer

No matter how much I learn I will never know enough even when I think I have seen too much.:tu:

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26 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

No matter how much I learn I will never know enough even when I think I have seen too much.:tu:

I've seen more than I'd have chosen to see, of death, hunger, hate and sorrow. My joy is that I've seen life, love, happiness and contentment in equal measure. I guess that's what living is all about, Charlie Brown.

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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I've seen more than I'd have chosen to see, of death, hunger, hate and sorrow. My joy is that I've seen life, love, happiness and contentment in equal measure. I guess that's what living is all about, Charlie Brown.

Hi Hammer

No matter what I have seen life hasn't repulsed me. jmccr8

I live, I love, I love to live and dying won't kill me life will.:innocent::whistle:

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10 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

No matter what I have seen life hasn't repulsed me. jmccr8

I live, I love, I love to live and dying won't kill me life will.:innocent::whistle:

 

Life is the leading cause of death...

True story.

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3 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

 

Life is the leading cause of death...

True story.

Death is highly overrated.

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11 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

 

Life is the leading cause of death...

True story.

Hi QuiXilver

Double Life GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

Never thought I would see 30 and here I am on my third lifetime.:whistle:

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

“My point was that a person who can read and write, also has to do all those everyday things

However, they also have  have a skill and abilty which others may not “( Mr. Walker). 


 

An enlightened being demonstrates an exceptional capacity to be honest with others and themselves about humanness, there is no better than the self realized mind sees beyond comparison and judgements, the egocentric mind sees in terms of comparison and judgement. 
 

An enlightened person requires no validation from self or others because one has lost the sense of separate self, a good way to think of it is  “there by the grace of god go I too,” in other words, oneness not separateness and what is observed in all contexts is an incredible sense of empathy, compassion and kindness and connection to all.  One isn’t on UM behaving adversarially bragging/claiming/proselytizing (ego) they are enlightened. :P 

An enlightened person is free from attachment, (no need to be right) at this point, it would be fair to offer that the need to be right is your Achilles heel. 

It is more than fair to conclude that the speech you choose and the behaviors you demonstrate are those of an unenlightened human, just like the rest of us, myself included. :lol: With that being said, my two cents is the refrigerator side hustle specifically, the part of being of service to the community is a wonderful opportunity and choice by you to expose yourself and expand your perspective/awareness beyond me, myself and I.  

An add to: few in this lifetime are enlightened, in fact it is rare, and this includes you, me and the rest of us. 
 

 


 

 

 

I would respect your judgement more if you bothered to read and think about what i write, with an open mind  and an attempt to understand and appreciate my posts  rather than reinterpreting them through your own fixed beliefs.

What you see as bragging is actually truth, and me being honest about myself

I have a strong healthy ego and self  esteem Enlightenment does not preclude those things . Indeed a truly enlightened person being honest with themselves will have them 

Trying to teach and help others is a higher form of enlightenment than so much detachment that you don't care about others    Detachment from  the material  is one thing.  Detachment form people or your environment/world  is another. 

Enlightenment   is the ultimate in caring because you are one w ith all, and hurt /harm to one is hurt /harm to all.  

I don't need to be right (ie I have no psychological attachment or need to be correct all the time . That would be unhealthy)  Its just that t I almost always am right  ( in the areas where I debate things )  :) I  keep asking people to show me where I am wrong (and what evidences there are to prove me wrong)  but very few do.

When the y do it is an enjoyable  learning opportunity for me 

Its interesting. I don't judge you (although it is very tempting to do so, just in my mind) yet you clearly judge me 

 

 I am also speaking about a different form of enlightenment to that you might be thinking of 

It is first an experienced gnosis ( like love) Just as real and as powerful as being "hit by the thunderbolt"  when you  fall in love  Then (as it is with love)  it is learning from,  and applying what one gains in that experience, to transform oneself and the way one lives.

Love does this, and so does enlightenment.

Both last a lifetime, If the y are genuine, and worked on.  

Both transform you instantly, but both also transform you over your life, and shape the life you live. Thus they are  continually evolving and changing the person you are, from the one you would have been, should you ever have experienced love or enlightenment. 

this  is the form of enlightenment I am talking about.

 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/enlightened-person_b_8018566

1. Happiness

The enlightened person is happy and joyful. He has a cheerful disposition most of the time, and is willing to share that joy with others. He is always optimistic that all challenges have a resolution. Even though the resolution may not be the most desirable, he is confident that he is capable of being at peace with it.

2. Peaceful and Serene

The enlightened person is peaceful and serene, because he is free of fear and other unwholesome emotions. He can see that the human condition reaches beyond this physical existence, so he no longer has a fear of the unknown. He is free of worry because he understands that freedom from suffering comes from within, and not from material possessions.

3. Loving, Kind, and Compassionate

The enlightened person is loving, kind, and compassionate for two main reasons: 1) he genuinely cares about other people, regardless of whether they care about him, and 2) he knows that other people provide him with the spiritual nourishment he needs to continue growing. Therefore, he remains spiritually open to everyone.

4. Not Self-Centered

The enlightened person is not self-centered, because he has lost the sense of a separate self. He can see the interconnected nature of our existence. To him, this is not just a concept, but a reality. He realizes that all physical manifestations (humans, animals, plants, etc.) depend on each other for their survival.

5. Emotionally Stable

The enlightened person is emotionally stable because he no longer has an ego that needs validation for its existence. He is not hurt because there is no ego to hurt. He does not get angry because he is understanding and compassionate toward those who are not as far along the spiritual path.

6. Patient and Understanding

The enlightened person is patient and understanding because he appreciates how our ignorance creates our own suffering. He understands the challenges of achieving enlightenment, so he doesn't condemn people for their missteps.

7. Humble

The enlightened person is humble. Since he knows his place in the universe, he doesn't need validation from others. Therefore, he has nothing to prove to anyone, including himself. His humble nature allows him to be kind and gentle, and be open to everyone he encounters.

8. Insightful and Open-Minded

The enlightened person is insightful and open-minded. He is able to see the world with great clarity, without attachment to preconceived ideas about people, places, and things. This enables him to observe the world without jumping to conclusions. Belief and intuition are replaced with clarity of vision and understanding.

9. Inner Strength

The enlightened person has great inner strength. He has learned healthy ways of connecting with the sources of spiritual nourishment -- through healthy interactions with people, and within. He no longer has a need for the power struggles that most of us engage in.

10. Leadership

The enlightened person is a leader. Having awakened to the point of understanding the nature of suffering, he realizes his duty to help other people find freedom from suffering. He leads by example, rather than control. People follow him because of who he is and what he stands for. They want to be more like him.

11. Mindful of His Health

The enlightened person is mindful of his health -- physical, mental, and emotional. He knows that his mind, body, and spirit must be in harmony in order to maintain his spiritual condition. He has developed an understanding of physical and mental health, and doesn't blindly depend on others for his health. He is mindful of the nutrients and substances he puts into his body.

12. Committed to His Spiritual Practice

The enlightened person never forgets how he achieved enlightenment. He is also aware that it takes continuous effort to remain that way. It takes a great deal of spiritual nourishment to help others along their path, so he's aware that he needs to replenish his spiritual strength on a daily basis. Otherwise, he'll lose his effectiveness as a spiritual messenger.

Overall, the enlightened person is mindful of himself, and the world around him. Furthermore, he is curious and willing to continue learning. He is aware that even though he can see with great clarity, developing an understanding of the true nature of our existence takes time to observe and investigate.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/enlightened-person_b_8018566

I rank very highly in all these attributes even those where it might not seem like it to you  

I'll admit that I am not  very humble. I see humility as a false virtue and just as wrong as false or undeserved pride. and yet I dont feel a need to prove myself. My ego is sufficient to not require validation from  others.  I am exceptionally kind  and gentle, and open to others. 

(Thats not self  analysis; it  is the written and verbal analysis of colleagues, neighbours, community,  friends, and family.. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

11. Mindful of His Health

The enlightened person is mindful of his health -- physical, mental, and emotional. He knows that his mind, body, and spirit must be in harmony in order to maintain his spiritual condition. He has developed an understanding of physical and mental health, and doesn't blindly depend on others for his health. He is mindful of the nutrients and substances he puts into his body.

Based on the pictures I have seen, I doubt this. 

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