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Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...


Ajay0
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Ruminations
 
 
Everyone has something that is precious to them; something that each one reaches for outside oneself, to bring warmth and light to that inner place where thought resides. Before out feet stretch out ten thousand times ten thousand paths one may choose to walk; ten thousand times ten thousand journeys that take us all to one destination, death. Yet the meaning of a journey is not it's culmination, it is what one experiences along the way. Every, journey, every path that is chosen is unique and special for each one of us. We cherish the solitude, weather the storms and vicissitudes of life, enjoy the fruits of our labors and cherish the love we, perchance, find when the paths of our journeys cross. We are all the same weary traveler and yet we are all uniquely different, searching, seeking and finding. The most important thing one finds is oneself and the unique relationships one forges with our fellow travelers along the way. Whether by chance or design, we were not given a life only to throw it away. Eternity yet abides, so for our lifetime, let us embrace this Now we find ourselves in, for it is, after all, a very important part of the greater whole.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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14 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Its your life, its your choice, I have never said anything different.

Hi Crazy Horse

Yes it is my choice, but you still argue your god over mine.

14 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I hope, that you find a deep, and lasting inner peace, a deep and lasting joyfulness, and a perfect connection to GOD, however you see THAT.

My life isn't about seeking joy, I am not in conflict with myself nor have I been for the greater part of my life. The connection I have to my god construct is me and how I use what I was born with. No exterior other is needed.

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On 1/8/2022 at 7:42 PM, Crazy Horse said:

The first line and premise is incorrect, Mr W.

One does not need an ego to live, in fact, with-out an ego one shall no longer suffer and live a much fuller life. Although pain being one thing, and suffering being another. 

One may think of the ego as the shadow of the mind, which is only the shadow of the soul, which is a very thin veil placed upon THAT. So the ego is a shadow, of a shadow, of a shadow, facing away from GOD. Which may, with a sense of separateness, lead one to some very dark and lonely places. And so, when one has completely turned back towards THAT, ones ego is no longer needed nor able to continue and shall dissolve, evaporate, back to the higher mind, which in turn also dissolves back into the soul.

Ego is not the sense of self, the Self is beyond ego/body/mind.

To truly connect with "other", then the less ego involved, the better.

One may act spontaneously, selflessly, from a place of love.

HH Dalai Lama has said that he is willing to drop even long held beliefs, if new information is demonstrated to be true, good, and valuable. (Paraphrase).

 

 

As I said you misunderstand ego

Unlike all other animals, humans  have a high degree of self aware consciousness 

Ie we know ourselves, our minds  and our environment. We create questions and provide answers to those questions, such as, "Why am I here?  Who am I?"   Ego is a psychological/cognitive construct which evolves from  this self  awareness

While other animals don't have to care, or provide answers to the questions their minds construct , in order  to survive, humans do.  You can't even have an ego unless you are aware of what it means to have one. Thus other animals have no sense  of ego as humans do. Ie other animals don't require a reason to keep on living Their biological drivers ensure they fight to survive, but a human needs to WANT to go on living. Once life is no longer seen as worth the struggle, the y either kill themselves or simply allow themselves to die. 

The desire to continue living  requires some sense of self importance or ego  Individuals without the sense of self  or ego wont survive long enough to breed, and so evolution constructs the human race to have the ego required for its survival. 

I have a strong ego, but I have no  psychological pain or suffering . I have no fear, no hate,   no anger, no envy, no greed,  no guilt.  

I have no strong attachment to  material things, but I do care about myself and others  

imo one cannot love another unless one has learned to truly love ones self

Loving ones self requires a positive ego.  

 

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On 1/8/2022 at 11:46 PM, Nuclear Wessel said:

:yes:

Not sure what your reaction was but i see others laughing. My blood pressure is always around 120 on 70 My cholesterol is well under 2 .My sugar levels are  about 5 My oxygen intake is close to100% I have a very rapid recovery time  after exercise 

You cant get much more exemplary than tha t. 

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On 1/9/2022 at 12:55 AM, XenoFish said:

Didn't he have a heart attack not to long ago? 

No.

In 2005 I had some arteries replaced 

In 2017 I had some heart valves replaced 

In 2018 I had a pacemaker installed 

These were genetic issues arising from  my parents who both had a number of heart issues. My father died on the operating table aged 79 during a simple heart operation  

I've never had even a mild heart attack, or damage to my heart 

ATM  according to my doctors and specialists  I am in exceptional health.

I only need to see the cardiac specialist once a year  to check the pacemaker and, unless I have some form of accident, I should live a t least another decade  without any further medical intervention .

I can't do anything about my genetic heritage, but I can be careful with my lifestyle choices. 

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On 1/10/2022 at 6:51 AM, Sherapy said:

Use great care at whose feet you sit at. The better questions are ~ are you kinder, are you learning to love, are you more compassionate etc etc. Claiming enlightenment is the earmark of an ego, there is no I, me, or my, such as, “my experience, I am enlightened, I have attained gnosis or this happened to me” etc etc. 
An ego is an ego is an ego. :P

Are there experiences that may happen as a result of mediation, sure, but the rule of thumb or the appropriate response to these experiences is they mean nothing, let them go.

“You get what you get; then let it go…”~Anonymous 

Enlightenment may increase those virtues but you might already hold and practice them before becoming  enlightened. indeed you might need to have those  virtues BEFORE you can become enlightened 

IMO the biggest critics of ego are those with low self  esteem who believe that is  normal, and that  a healthy ego is not 

"Being enlightened" is  a descriptor  of the human condition 

Its not egotistical to say you are enlightened  (if you are) , anymore than to say you are a good musician, or a good mother,  or loving, kind, compassionate,  etc. The y can all be legitimate  and accurate descriptors of your nature 

All humans have (and require)  a sense of ego The trick is to find a healthy balance, where your ego works for you and others,  to improve and make things better.  

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On 1/11/2022 at 8:32 PM, XenoFish said:

All of them are. There are no true guru's. Just people preaching their own subjective reality tunnel as the "truth". 

So, in your opinion, there are no true/objective , truths ? 

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15 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Because it's all nonsense. There is no truth within any spiritual context. Just emotion fueled opinions. None of these guru's knows anything. Not even Buddha.

They sell a philosophy of life, that's it. Not only this, some take it to cultish level. Preying on the gullible and weak. Convincing them that they have the only truth. 

What happen to having me on ignore? Miss me that much.

 

There are psychological truths which, if not absolute/universal,  do apply to about 90% of the human population.

I agree to watch out for anyone selling you  anything, but not so much those  giving it away  for free. .

Total absolutism is probably harmful , but  "sticking to a programme " which requires self  discipline,  can be very beneficial 

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7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No.

In 2005 I had some arteries replaced 

In 2017 I had some heart valves replaced 

In 2018 I had a pacemaker installed 

These were genetic issues arising from  my parents who both had a number of heart issues. My father died on the operating table aged 79 during a simple heart operation  

I've never had even a mild heart attack, or damage to my heart 

ATM  according to my doctors and specialists  I am in exceptional health.

I only need to see the cardiac specialist once a year  to check the pacemaker and, unless I have some form of accident, I should live a t least another decade  without any further medical intervention .

I can't do anything about my genetic heritage, but I can be careful with my lifestyle choices. 

Having stuff replaced is the equivalent of damage to the heart. Also being obese is the leading cause of heart problems. Not at you but, genetic or otherwise keeping one’s weight down, including no stomach fat, exercising and staying consistent on a healthy heart eating plan is within one’s power. Just saying.:P
 

 

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27 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

These were genetic issues

Obesity is not a genetic issue

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4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Having stuff replaced is the equivalent of damage to the heart.

Get ready, his next excuse will be the Medical community of Australia stole his brain as the cause of his current incoherent logic constructive predicament. 

~

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7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm going to focus on this in particular. This is wholly your belief. Sure otehr might share such a concept, but this is how you filter things. If a person has little to zero belief in god, there is no amount of meditation in the multiverse that will help. Heaven, like god, is just a concept. An idea. I think most of us know who we are, our self. Meditation is just one tool among many. It is only worth what is put into it. If in your case an idea is cultivated around the concept of unity with deity. Then over time you're building up and reinforcing that IDEA. Such an idea will shape your personal subjective reality tunnel. It isn't a truth. Just a frame work. A model. 

 

Just want to concentrate on your first paragraph.

Putting aside the fact that it is only your belief that gods etc don't exist,  lets look at the role of meditation in constructing and maintaining beliefs 

While it has other sound psychological outcomes meditation is often a pathway or adjunct to faith and belief That may be because humans are innately evolved to be believing, spiritual, animals and meditation leads us more readily to this.  Conversely you can shut the door to this part of your existence by a failure to open your mind , or think about it 

So even if gods and heaven were not real  meditation has a role to play in evolving and strengthening a perron's spiritual purpose and journey 

So yep, maybe meditation reinforces and strengthens a SENSE of unity or connection.

It kind of depends just what a god is 

if it is just an idea or cognitive construct,  then meditation helps you become one with the idea.

If its real, then meditation might focus or open your mind to acceptance of and connection with, this external reality

Reality has two parts in the human mind 

First there is the external reality, then there are the constructs we build around that external reality to create our internal reality We can shape our internal reality tunnel, by thought and will alone,  but we cant  physically affect our external reality by will or thought alone. That requires the application of effort, directed by will and thought   

 

 

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7 minutes ago, SHaYap said:

Get ready, his next excuse will be the Medical community of Australia stole his brain as the cause of his current incoherent logic constructive predicament. 

~

My ex husband was similar, sadly, he died. If only he would have listened to his doctor, ex wife and sons he truly would still be here. Oh well. 

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7 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Obesity is not a genetic issue

If obesity were the issue then my health  indicators and parameters would not be so good 

My health issues are genetic not environmental 

By modern standards i am  "overweight ' but that isn't affecting my health parameters which are exactly as I gave them  

My mother and grandmother were both "overweight "yet lived well into their nineties. My father  and grandfather were very slim yet died  decades younger. 

I wouldn't bother discussing this except that it  is important 

I give considerable scientific advice on a number of issues 

These are as accurate as I can make them.

I do my best to live by modern health knowledge and advice but I am not perfect.

The photos you refer to were taken when i couldn't exercise due to leaky heart valves

Ive lost  40 kilos since then, and am slowly continuing to reduce my weigh.

  I now weigh less than I have for 30 years.     As with everything, moderation is the key, requiring long term discipline and commitment.  

 

I walk for  50 minutes a day, covering abut 5 ks.

That is more than enough to maintain a healthy level of fitness.

I eat only home cooked foods including  fresh fruit and verges and a little meat    I dont have desserts other than fruit 

However, I do love food and the good emotional feelings that come with social eating at home,  so I have to be careful with portion size   

 

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36 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Having stuff replaced is the equivalent of damage to the heart. Also being obese is the leading cause of heart problems. Not at you but, genetic or otherwise keeping one’s weight down, including no stomach fat, exercising and staying consistent on a healthy heart eating plan is within one’s power. Just saying.:P
 

 

This sort of ignorance is why i mostly have you on ignore and only pick up stuff from  other peoples' posts 

My physical heart issues are genetic not environmental Ie the y re not caused by diet obesity etc (although of course such factors might affect them  )

My father and grandfather were both skinny fit men, yet died much younger than their wives, who were both quite overweight 

Both my father and mother had heart issues which were passed on to me

This is the opinion of my GPs and specialists not my excuse 

While there is some correlation between fitness and health, the y are two entirely different things I could be fitter perhaps (although I am fit enough to do everything I need to  on a daily basis)  but really I couldn't be much healthier on every measurable indicator available.

My brother is the same.  although much taller, skinnier and fitter)  and Our measurable indicators are those of men 20 years younger  Unfortunately this doesn't protect us from  genetic heart problems. 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

This sort of ignorance is why i mostly have you on ignore and only pick up stuff from  other peoples' posts 

My physical heart issues are genetic not environmental Ie the y re not caused by diet obesity etc (although of course such factors might affect them  )

My father and grandfather were both skinny fit men, yet died much younger than their wives, who were both quite overweight 

Both my father and mother had heart issues which were passed on to me

This is the opinion of my GPs and specialists not my excuse 

While there is some correlation between fitness and health, the y are two entirely different things I could be fitter perhaps (although I am fit enough to do everything I need to  on a daily basis)  but really I couldn't be much healthier on every measurable indicator available.

My brother is the same. Our measurable indicators are those of men 20 years younger  Unfortunately this doesn't protect us from  genetic heart problems. 

 

 

 


 

Food is an addiction too just like cigarettes and alcohol. just saying. :P
Also overeating is a huge red flag that one is overwhelmed and stressed out. :tu:
 

 

 

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12 hours ago, XenoFish said:

How you treat those who question and disagree with you. You have belittle those who do not see things your way. Pretty much mocked the Buddhist as know-nothings. 

If I have challenged anything, it is the egos hypocrisy, not anyone's beliefs.

So for the millionth time, you, or they, or I, are free to believe in anything they want, so long as it doesn't cause harm or hurt.. What else can I say?

I love the Buddha Dharma, why should I belittle those who practice THAT?

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10 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm going to focus on this in particular. This is wholly your belief. Sure otehr might share such a concept, but this is how you filter things. If a person has little to zero belief in god, there is no amount of meditation in the multiverse that will help. Heaven, like god, is just a concept. An idea. I think most of us know who we are, our self. Meditation is just one tool among many. It is only worth what is put into it. If in your case an idea is cultivated around the concept of unity with deity. Then over time you're building up and reinforcing that IDEA. Such an idea will shape your personal subjective reality tunnel. It isn't a truth. Just a frame work. A model. 

Typically within the minds of beliefs this occurs when a strict and very rigid world view is created. A point in which there is a terribly high level of conviction. In which no amount of reason, reality, or logic can shake such a narrow field of view.  No angle are covered. Just the results of a very limited viewpoint. 

Any test you might give to others is going to be limited due to belief or lack of. Even if someone does experience something is will not match your own experience. 

Wrong. As I mentioned in my previous post. It is how you interact with others. That's what I'm basing my opinion on. 

Unless their beliefs are opposed to yours. Then they get a run around trying to understand what you're wanting to get across.

Fair to who? Us or yourself? Are you here to discuss in a straight forward manner or here to just preach?

So this is wholly my belief, shared by others? Bit of a mixed message their old chap. In any event, am I not allowed those beliefs?

And for one to benefit from meditation, their needn't be a belief in GOD, so you are mistaken again. Check-out the Buddhist model.

And whether GOD is the Supreme Reality, or not.. Am I not allowed THAT belief? Or are your beliefs more important then mine?

The angles that are covered are that beliefs may point to the REAL, yet they must be dropped at some point to know, be, experience THAT.

One is free to believe what thou will, but beliefs cause actions and every action has a consequence.

And I am not preaching anything, that would be against the rules XF, no, it seems that I am spending all the time defending my-self against others assumptions.

 

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11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

To be fair meditation isn’t about what you claim. It is misleading the junk you are trying to advance. This is not personal, simply feedback. Yet, it seems to be your own personal take so knock yourself out. 

 

But, there is the Catholic practice of Ignatian Contemplation [which ]”is prayer with Scripture. It is meeting God through story. The prayer develops as you “live into” a Scripture story with all your senses and imagination. You become a participant in the story, and you continue in the story in your heart, mind, imagination, spirit and body after the reading ends. You let the Spirit guide the prayer - you don’t force anything to happen - you let it happen to you, within you, around you. You may pray with the same story for many days in a row before you feel the prayer is complete, that God has spoken to you, that you have heard God, and worked through what it means for you. 

 

https://www.luther.edu/grace-institute/assets/Ignatian_Contemplation__Imaginative_Prayer.pdf

 

Yes, contemplative prayer is an important means to an end. There are other ways too.

Yet, at some point, one must "flat-line" the mind, totally without any thought, to know/experience/be THAT.

This isn't my personal take. It has been said for millennium. I am just discovering these things now, for oneself.

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6 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

Yes it is my choice, but you still argue your god over mine.

My life isn't about seeking joy, I am not in conflict with myself nor have I been for the greater part of my life. The connection I have to my god construct is me and how I use what I was born with. No exterior other is needed.

I am not arguing my GOD over yours...

I have just written, that you, or anyone else are free to believe in whatever you want to, so long as one doesn't hurt other folks in the process.

How much clearer can I be?

Please, feel free to believe, enjoy, find peace, any way you can, because all those things are symptoms of a healthy mind. With GOD, without GOD, your choice.

And I agree, there is no exterior other, there is only One Consciousness from which all existence springs from, and abides in. Whether one couches this view with different words is neither here nor there, as far as I can tell..

Good luck Jay.

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50 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

If I have challenged anything, it is the egos hypocrisy, not anyone's beliefs.

So for the millionth time, you, or they, or I, are free to believe in anything they want, so long as it doesn't cause harm or hurt.. What else can I say?

I love the Buddha Dharma, why should I belittle those who practice THAT?

You are very confused and you cant even keep the facts straight, sincerely I hope you dont have a mental or physical issue that affects you touch with reality, but man you have a serious problem speaking the truth, oh my!!:no::(

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Just now, Manwon Lender said:

You are very confused and you cant even keep the facts straight, sincerely I hope you dont have a mental or physical issue that affects you touch with reality, but man you have a serious problem speaking the truth, oh my!!:no::(

Really?

Please do explain..

Because simply calling someone confused doesn't help in the least.

 

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8 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:
Ruminations
 
 
Everyone has something that is precious to them; something that each one reaches for outside oneself, to bring warmth and light to that inner place where thought resides. Before out feet stretch out ten thousand times ten thousand paths one may choose to walk; ten thousand times ten thousand journeys that take us all to one destination, death. Yet the meaning of a journey is not it's culmination, it is what one experiences along the way. Every, journey, every path that is chosen is unique and special for each one of us. We cherish the solitude, weather the storms and vicissitudes of life, enjoy the fruits of our labors and cherish the love we, perchance, find when the paths of our journeys cross. We are all the same weary traveler and yet we are all uniquely different, searching, seeking and finding. The most important thing one finds is oneself and the unique relationships one forges with our fellow travelers along the way. Whether by chance or design, we were not given a life only to throw it away. Eternity yet abides, so for our lifetime, let us embrace this Now we find ourselves in, for it is, after all, a very important part of the greater whole.
 

I like the sentiments here H, yet if one was to be picky, then the very first line..

Not everyone has something precious to them.

Some folks are so negative, and nihilistic in their approach to life, that hate fills and consumes them from all sides.

At which point, one may turn to THAT, inner strength, or one may continue that pathway to a hellish existence.

Just saying..

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5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

As I said you misunderstand ego

Unlike all other animals, humans  have a high degree of self aware consciousness 

Ie we know ourselves, our minds  and our environment. We create questions and provide answers to those questions, such as, "Why am I here?  Who am I?"   Ego is a psychological/cognitive construct which evolves from  this self  awareness

While other animals don't have to care, or provide answers to the questions their minds construct , in order  to survive, humans do.  You can't even have an ego unless you are aware of what it means to have one. Thus other animals have no sense  of ego as humans do. Ie other animals don't require a reason to keep on living Their biological drivers ensure they fight to survive, but a human needs to WANT to go on living. Once life is no longer seen as worth the struggle, the y either kill themselves or simply allow themselves to die. 

The desire to continue living  requires some sense of self importance or ego  Individuals without the sense of self  or ego wont survive long enough to breed, and so evolution constructs the human race to have the ego required for its survival. 

I have a strong ego, but I have no  psychological pain or suffering . I have no fear, no hate,   no anger, no envy, no greed,  no guilt.  

I have no strong attachment to  material things, but I do care about myself and others  

imo one cannot love another unless one has learned to truly love ones self

Loving ones self requires a positive ego.  

 

The ego is the shadow of that part of the mind, the lower part, that is turned away from love. And therefore, can only lead one to darkness.

Once the mind turns back to the light of THAT, then the ego dissolves.

But, if one truly wants to know/experience/be THAT, then even the higher mind must be dropped.

If one is going to have thoughts, then insist upon the more positive, kind-hearted, gentle and humble variety, where ones inner peace shall blossom, lotus like.

And any psychological pain or suffering, fear and hatred, must also dissolve sans ego.

Mr Walker, by the responses you give to other folks around here, one may clearly see that in actual fact, you have very little ego.

I feel that your heart is in the right place..

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5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

There are psychological truths which, if not absolute/universal,  do apply to about 90% of the human population.

I agree to watch out for anyone selling you  anything, but not so much those  giving it away  for free. .

Total absolutism is probably harmful , but  "sticking to a programme " which requires self  discipline,  can be very beneficial 

At the end of the day, all words are mere symbols, expressions of a fantasy, an illusionary reality tunnel that one invests in.

Yet, a good positive belief, attitude and mind, shall reap many benefits for the present moment.

Butt, some well chosen words and phrases may at least point to the Absolute Supreme Real.

Only, for one to be sure of anything, one must try, know, experience those things/ideas, for ones-self.

We have a mind, we have feelings, we have intelligence, why wouldn't we use these things to better our lives?

 

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