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Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...


Ajay0
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18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So you've decided to become a zombie, running on auto pilot. Which means you didn't choose anything nor can you.

To be awake to the present moment is not "running on auto pilot". Its the exact opposite.

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5 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

To be awake to the present moment is not "running on auto pilot". Its the exact opposite.

You said choice-less state. That's running on auto pilot.

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11 hours ago, Guyver said:

Unfortunately for me it turned into a sort of “spiritual pride” if you can accept that oxymoron.  Perhaps I should say religious pride.  I thought I was better than others because I believed I was serving God and my fellow man.  This, I believed, made me better than others, like the Mormons and Catholics whom I believed were going to hell because they weren’t saved and didn’t believe in Jesus.  The ultimate irony?  I no longer believe in Jesus myself.  Maybe now the Catholics and Mormons think I’m going to hell lol.

I think this is very common, especially in the West.

In any case, I think ones knowledge, wisdom, and even personal experience, can lead one to a place of suffering.

I my-self have been through these trials, many times.

Basically, one must live those lessons, those insights, and THAT love too.

Know it - and then live it.

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5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

That's why I said, "If one has a choice."

If one can live in the present moment, a choice-less life, (something I am starting to realise) then you have cracked it, (the ego) and are Realised.

Have you managed to remain in this present moment, this choice-less state of being, for more than an hour, Sheri?

If one can keep grounded in the present moment ( live mindfully) one will cultivate a perspective of what is called “beginners mind” which in the context I am framing this means one will tune into possibility, or opportunities to explore and try out new perspectives. 
 

‘’I use my work as a caregiver to practice mindfulness in real time due to the demands of this type of work compassion fatigue and burnout and chronic illness due to stress are prevalent I wanted to challenge myself to see if mindfulness based therapy was practical and useful to me, for me I am interested in the science aspect.  I then lucked onto a job with a Neurologist who has designed studies and a work environment that is undergirded with mindfulness, and we would begin our daily journey with meditation, when I notice that I have wandered or become mindless, I gently bring myself back to the present moment. I don’t time myself but for the most part I have the tools and have cultivated an ability to pay attention to the point I can keep anchored and present by bringing my attention back when it wanders which it does. For me, mindfulness is a path of self care it nurtures active listening, compassion, kindness, and empathy, attentiveness, non judgment, open awareness, being attuned to my patients needs and connected to them all are useful staples of a mindfulness practice. If I perceive no choice in situations this is an opportunity for me to bring myself back to the present moment and an opportunity to explore deeper. Of course, some days are better than others I am human first and foremost. I also keep myself healthy, a healthy body buffers stress better, responds better overall,  I eat clean, no processed foods, I have excellent sleep hygiene, I stay hydrated, I meditate and practice hot yoga everyday when possible which is a way to clear out accumulated stressors of the day on all levels and nurture fitness for caregiving. 

 

My two cents on the ego, for me it seems to be more of a  shift of ones focus that nurtures a de centered  awareness and objectivity, one doesn’t get rid of the ego or live in fear of it or demonize it. The ego often points to all the paths of resistance in a person which only opens opportunities for growth. In other words, one isn’t waiting for enlightenment before they can feel effective. For me, mindfulness nurtures an interdependent open relationship with all aspects of the self and ones experiences “as is” (acceptance) and working from there. Ego work in and of itself is fascinating and fun to me. 

Edited by Sherapy
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7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You said choice-less state. That's running on auto pilot.

No, its not.

A choice-less state is a state of non-thinking, and therefore no decision making either.

A choice-less state is a Self realised state of GOD Consciousness..

No ego, no thoughts, just a solid connection to THAT.

 

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2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

My two cents on the ego, for me it seems to be more of a  shift of ones focus that nurtures a de centered  awareness and objectivity, one doesn’t get rid of the ego or live in fear of it or demonize it. The ego often points to all the paths of resistance in a person which only opens opportunities for growth. In other words, one isn’t waiting for enlightenment before they can feel effective. For me, mindfulness nurtures an interdependent open relationship with all aspects of the self and ones experiences “as is” (acceptance) and working from there. Ego work in and of itself is fascinating and fun to me. 

There is nothing to fear, or demonise. 

However, the ego remains an object that needs removing if one is serious about realising Self.

The ego doesn't just point to all the paths of resistance, but it is the actual cause of these barriers to the truth, and happiness.

For sure, use these lessons well, but at some point. one has to let go of the cause, and live in real love.

 

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7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

That's why I said, "If one has a choice."

If one can live in the present moment, a choice-less life, (something I am starting to realise) then you have cracked it, (the ego) and are Realised.

Have you managed to remain in this present moment, this choice-less state of being, for more than an hour, Sheri?

Hi Crazy Horse

I love having choices and there is a difference between having choices and making bad decisions

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7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And meditating, giving joyously, helping, laughing and loving too...

To name just a few helpful things.

All of which are a personal choice.

Although there are few guarantees….

Unless one is enlightened.

Hi Crazy Horse

You don't have a choice of what you will die of but you will have a choice in how to face it, that was my point. I don't need to be enlightened to chose a double cheese burger with bacon or what kind of car suits my needs or what color socks to wear with my tie.

Most of life's choices are not about being enlightened as they are about cost, consequence or fashion sense

Edited by jmccr8
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14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

There is nothing to fear, or demonise. 

However, the ego remains an object that needs removing if one is serious about realising Self.

The ego doesn't just point to all the paths of resistance, but it is the actual cause of these barriers to the truth, and happiness.

For sure, use these lessons well, but at some point. one has to let go of the cause, and live in real love.

 

Realizing self?

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29 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, its not.

A choice-less state is a state of non-thinking, and therefore no decision making either.

A choice-less state is a Self realised state of GOD Consciousness..

No ego, no thoughts, just a solid connection to THAT.

 

So you become a zombie. Sad thing is you're always thinking, even when you are not consciously aware of it. The mind is always going. So a state of no thought is more or less a focus on a thought, the thought of not thinking thoughts. I honestly have no idea why you hate ego so much, it's basically you. This "god" you claim connectivity to is just a mental construct based on a concept of divinity. Which really means you're only connecting to a idea of god. Not a god or anything divine. 

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27 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

There is nothing to fear, or demonise. 

However, the ego remains an object that needs removing if one is serious about realising Self.

The ego doesn't just point to all the paths of resistance, but it is the actual cause of these barriers to the truth, and happiness.

For sure, use these lessons well, but at some point. one has to let go of the cause, and live in real love.

 

The ego is the self. Barriers are often subconscious. Being based on beliefs, even the belief that such barriers exist which can be a stumbling block. The belief that the ego prevents, is a block as well.

Perhaps a better focus would be to drop all this ego focus and just try to be a better person. 

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2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So you become a zombie. Sad thing is you're always thinking, even when you are not consciously aware of it. The mind is always going. So a state of no thought is more or less a focus on a thought, the thought of not thinking thoughts. I honestly have no idea why you hate ego so much, it's basically you. This "god" you claim connectivity to is just a mental construct based on a concept of divinity. Which really means you're only connecting to a idea of god. Not a god or anything divine. 

Indeed, god is a mental construct coming out of the cortex any claim of connection is a narrative one attaches, in therapy we call this creating the perfect nurturer image, but it is understood that it is fictional for some it helps to come up with a god construct or spirit guide, alien, whatever works etc. as a  way to connect to something soothing and calming. You are correct the reason for mindfulness or meditation is to be a better self towards oneself and others. And in CH’s case he could use this as an opportunity to explore his revenge narratives if he hasn’t already. Just my two cents. 

Edited by Sherapy
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16 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed, god is a mental construct coming out of the cortex any claim of connection is a narrative one attaches, in therapy we call this creating the perfect nurturer image, but it is understood that it is fictional for some it helps to come up with a god construct or spirit guide, alien, whatever works etc. as a  way to connect to something soothing and calming. You are correct the reason for mindfulness or meditation is to be a better self towards oneself and others. And in CH’s case he could use this as an opportunity to explore his revenge narratives if he hasn’t already. Just my two cents. 

The god/guide can also be a self-regulation tool.

Just going from an occultist perspective, a god (or whatever) is a way to externalize a wish/desire. Which should allow that idea to sink into the mind, since you are not directly responsible. It is in "god's" hands. 

Then again a god construct could also function as an ideal self. 

If we're going to take this serious for a moment. Considering that god is supposedly all things, then there shouldn't be special requirements for connectivity. Considering something like prayer and faith are rather easy. I guess one could readily assume they're already connected to god without all the hubris. Though I suspect some require more theatrics. 

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Are the so-called enlightened, spiritually enlightened, or are they virtue signaling? Are they using the tropes of religion for purely secular-material gain? Offering to sell enlightenment should be quite "enlightening". Are they trying to sell you something? 

Face To Face With Reality: Questions Of Earnest Spiritual By Rajini

Edited by Hammerclaw
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5 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Are the so-called enlightened, spiritually enlightened, or are they virtue signaling? Are they using the tropes of religion for purely secular-material gain? Offering to sell enlightenment should be quite "enlightening". Are they trying to sell you something? 

Face To Face With Reality: Questions Of Earnest Spiritual By Rajini

 Rajini Menon is employed as a government bureaucrat and has no need for any additional sources of finance for her needs.

She had stated her experiences and teachings in her autobiographical book 'Face to Face with Reality'  in the hope that it might be useful to anyone seeking perspective and meaning in life.

 There are countless books on nihilism and existentialism written by philosophers and authors who are out to make a quick buck at the expense of the readers moral framework or sense of morality.

Rajini Menon is an exception who wrote an autobiographical work highlighting her inner work with virtuous conduct and values to navigate through the chaos of life, and which finally resulted in her enlightenment.

I have not read her book, but her very example was a great education to me emphasizing the importance of virtuous conduct and values in life , helped provide meaning and perspective, and also served to negate the soul-eroding influence of nihilistic and existentialist philosophies. I am grateful to her for this and hence wish to spread her message in this regard.

She has also expressed her earnestness in spreading her insights to those who are seeking knowledge and perspective so as to lead more fulfilled and productive lives.

Edited by Ajay0
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I found nihilism to be quite freeing. Like a process of development, existentialism, to nihilism, then embracing the absurd. 

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/difference-existentialism-nihilism-absurdism/

 

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14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I found nihilism to be quite freeing. Like a process of development, existentialism, to nihilism, then embracing the absurd. 

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/difference-existentialism-nihilism-absurdism/

 

I have no issues with nihilism's negation of virtuous conduct and values, as long as people don't use this false premise as an excuse to preach or practice violence or crimes.

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16 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

I have no issues with nihilism's negation of virtuous conduct and values, as long as people don't use this false premise as an excuse to preach or practice violence or crimes.

It doesn't negate, it basically says such things are illusions. Virtuousness can lead to self righteousness. The arrogance of which can create all manner of ill will. 

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44 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 Rajini Menon is employed as a government bureaucrat and has no need for any additional sources of finance for her needs.

She had stated her experiences and teachings in her autobiographical book 'Face to Face with Reality'  in the hope that it might be useful to anyone seeking perspective and meaning in life.

 There are countless books on nihilism and existentialism written by philosophers and authors who are out to make a quick buck at the expense of the readers moral framework or sense of morality.

Rajini Menon is an exception who wrote an autobiographical work highlighting her inner work with virtuous conduct and values to navigate through the chaos of life, and which finally resulted in her enlightenment.

I have not read her book, but her very example was a great education to me emphasizing the importance of virtuous conduct and values in life , helped provide meaning and perspective, and also served to negate the soul-eroding influence of nihilistic and existentialist philosophies. I am grateful to her for this and hence wish to spread her message in this regard.

She has also expressed her earnestness in spreading her insights to those who are seeking knowledge and perspective so as to lead more fulfilled and productive lives.

Then she should take the money made by her book and give it to the poor and make the text freely available on the internet. 

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15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It doesn't negate, it basically says such things are illusions.

 Yeah, this is the problem. If values like nonviolence and honesty are mere illusions, why follow them !

Some can use such arguments to preach and practice violence and brutality, as Viktor Frankl and other Nazi victims found to their detriment during the second world war.

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11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Then she should take the money made by her book and give it to the poor and make the text freely available on the internet. 

  I have a better idea.

The American military budget each year is much more than the military budgets of the ten next nations put together.  They can cut their budget and use the surplus money on the poor and houseless lacking health care in their own country and around the world. There will still be enough though as surplus.

 

Edited by Ajay0
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7 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

  I have a better idea.

The American military budget each year is much more than the military budgets of the ten next nations put together.  They can cut their budget and use the surplus money on the poor and houseless lacking health care in their own country and around the world. There will still be enough though as surplus.

 

The American military has never aspired to nor had any pretense of enlightenment. Any person may sell their version of enlightenment at thirty dollars a book quite shamelessly and freely if they so choose. It's quite legal.:D

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14 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

 Yeah, this is the problem. If values like nonviolence and honesty are mere illusions, why follow them !

Because we can. We can choose to live how we wish. 

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On 9/22/2020 at 3:57 PM, Ajay0 said:

An insightful article on female enlightened master Rajini Menon attaining enlightenment just through adhering to virtuous conduct and behavior.

I honestly thought the thread was about me. Virtuous conduct is like my middle name. 

Everyone here can vouch for that.

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2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I honestly thought the thread was about me. Virtuous conduct is like my middle name. 

Everyone here can vouch for that.

Absolutely! e's the salt o the earth!

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