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Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...


Ajay0
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48 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Where to start?

When one is in a state of thought-less-ness, one is not thinking, "No thoughts, no thoughts, etc". No, because that would be absurd. The state of having no thoughts means that there are no thoughts, ideas, concepts or perceptions whatsoever.

Why do I "Hate" the ego so much? Because it is the root of all of ones woes. It is unreal, and illusionary, and if one wants to know, Marry, GOD, then the ego can no longer exist. One cannot serve two masters at once. Bearing in mind, the bliss, joy, and peacefulness that arrives with THAT.

And lastly...

This GOD is not a mental construct. I just told you that there cannot be any concepts if one wishes to Know THAT.

The issue is you believe the nonsense you think. The first question to ask when it comes to thought constructs is, is this true/what are the facts? The way you understand the ego is the problem and the source of your ego woes. 

 

Nurture beginners mind, non attachment or letting go, start there. Just my two cents. 
 

“In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few”~ Suzuki

“Do not believe d everything you think” ~Buddha

Edited by Sherapy
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It's kind of amazing that in order to obtain these supposed enlightened states of being, you need Olympic level mental gymnastics. 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

It's kind of amazing that in order to obtain these supposed enlightened states of being, you need Olympic level mental gymnastics. 

To me, CH is perfecting mindlessness. 

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17 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You do realize this is your own flawed perspective. God is an idea, if it wasn't it could be proven to exist. 

I know who I am. There wasn't much to realizing it either. Most people already know themselves, “it is the acceptance part that's troublesome.”

Your path is equally flawed as all other paths.

Word.:tu: 
 

 

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23 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

To me, CH is perfecting mindlessness. 

Perhaps. I get the feeling he's at the obsession stage. 

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9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Perhaps. I get the feeling he's at the obsession stage. 

Exactly, in MBSMT  it is labeled the pure “O” (obsession) aspect of OCD. It isn’t rocket science we have been there too. I certainly have. :P
 

I’d suggest a way to get some space from pure “O” is to use either diaphragmatic breathing, or Chandra Bheda breathing technique the latter stops rumination in its tracks. :tu:

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41 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

The issue is you believe the nonsense you think. The first question to ask when it comes to thought constructs is, is this true/what are the facts? The way you understand the ego is the problem and the source of your ego woes. 

 

So, exactly, what way do I understand the ego, and why is that the source of all my woes?

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6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Exactly, in MBSMT  it is labeled the pure “O” (obsession) aspect of OCD. It isn’t rocket science we have been there too. I certainly have. :P

Yeah, imagine the excitement of confirmation bias without knowing about. Magical thinking can be interesting. 

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1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

So, exactly, what way do I understand the ego, and why is that the source of all my woes?

You are your own worst enemy.

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45 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You do realize this is your own flawed perspective. God is an idea, if it wasn't it could be proven to exist. 

I know who I am. There wasn't much to realizing it either. Most people already know themselves, it is the acceptance part that's troublesome. 

Your path is equally flawed as all other paths.

GOD isn't an idea.

An idea is a thought, sometimes remembered, sometimes not, in any event, it is illusory and therefore unreal.

GOD, we could say as a starting off point, is, Real and Unchanging, a taste of which everyone can experience if only one drops the ego.

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3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You are your own worst enemy.

Perhaps you could tell me exactly how I see the ego, and  therefore, why it is the source of all my woes?

Either you or Sheri..

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1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

So, exactly, what way do I understand the ego, and why is that the source of all my woes?

CH you stated that the ego is the root of all your woes, I am simply quoting you. I agree with you it is one source of your issues.  I suggest that you get  the facts about the ego and go from there. You are literally making up stuff about the ego and believing it to boot. Just saying.
 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

CH you stated that the ego is the root of all your woes, I am simply quoting you. I agree with you it is one source of your issues.  I suggest that you get  the facts about the ego and go from there. You are literally making up stuff about the ego and believing it to boot. Just saying.
 

 

OK, so how do you think that I see the ego?

And perhaps you would be so kind as to tell me the facts about the ego too..?

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3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Perhaps you could tell me exactly how I see the ego, and  therefore, why it is the source of all my woes?

Either you or Sheri..

Google, Freud, or Jung begin by having an academic understanding of the Ego. You are afraid of your own ego dude, begin by nurturing a healthy relationship with it. 

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Just now, Sherapy said:

Google, Freud, or Jung begin by having an academic understanding of the Ego. You are afraid of your own ego dude, begin by nurturing a healthy relationship with it. 

And what exactly does a healthy relationship with the ego look like?

And perhaps you could save me a bunch of time, and just tell me the most succinct points, concerning the ego, of Freud and Jung?

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4 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

OK, so how do you think that I see the ego?

And perhaps you would be so kind as to tell me the facts about the ego too..?

 

4 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

OK, so how do you think that I see the ego?

And perhaps you would be so kind as to tell me the facts about the ego too..?

Going off what you stated you said the ego is the source of all ones woes, maybe you want to relook at this, open yourself to a new perspectives.
 

For example: “Hartmann advanced the theme of the ego as an organizer of the mind, of experience, and of behavior (Blanck & Blanck, 1974). This organizing function proposes an understanding of a normal developmental process, against which pathology can be seen in terms of developmental failures. By articulating the essential functions of the ego, one can examine how well they have been facilitated by life’s events.” In other words, simply put the ego is an adaption system. 

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11 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

And what exactly does a healthy relationship with the ego look like?

And perhaps you could save me a bunch of time, and just tell me the most succinct points, concerning the ego, of Freud and Jung?

Sure I will help, what specifically do you want to know? From my seat you have little to no understanding of the ego, is this fair? 

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34 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

GOD isn't an idea.

An idea is a thought, sometimes remembered, sometimes not, in any event, it is illusory and therefore unreal.

GOD, we could say as a starting off point, is, Real and Unchanging, a taste of which everyone can experience if only one drops the ego.

God is an idea, a construct at this point in our human understanding. At best, a god construct is a fictional character one attributes qualities too. This isn’t right or wrong in and of itself but being self aware one must be able to distinguish between actuality and mental constructs. 

You are attached to your god construct as if it is real when in truth it is your own narrative that you are attached to, again not right or wrong just what is, so far in our human development we do not have a way to evidence god constructs. It is what it is. 
 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

Going off what you stated you said the ego is the source of all ones woes, maybe you want to relook at this, open yourself to a new perspectives.
 

Well yes, I do see the ego as the source of ones woes..

So lets have another looksey.

The ego, whether the more debased, selfish side, or the more noble-minded aspect, matters not, for it is the actual thoughts themselves that are keeping one from Realisation..(and the Truth).

Not good.

But to put it into plain language, the ego is here, there, and everywhere, and as such can never be satisfied, with only one conclusion. 

Suffering.

The ego has no substance, and therefore is unreal, and again with the same conclusion.

More suffering.

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41 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Sure I will help, what specifically do you want to know? From my seat you have little to no understanding of the ego, is this fair? 

Ok, I would like to know freuds perspective upon the ego itself, and how this affects ones everyday life?

And as for Jung, perhaps you could tell me about his "Dream Works", and what role do the Archetypes play in regards to the ego?

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38 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

God is an idea, a construct at this point in our human understanding. At best, a god construct is a fictional character one attributes qualities too. This isn’t right or wrong in and of itself but being self aware one must be able to distinguish between actuality and mental constructs. 

You are attached to your god construct as if it is real when in truth it is your own narrative that you are attached to, again not right or wrong just what is, so far in our human development we do not have a way to evidence god constructs. It is what it is. 
 

 

 

Ok, Im gonna tell you something now, so please pay attention.

There is something beyond the mind, something alive, something one may know for oneself.

But first, ones ego must be closed, and ones heart must be open.

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1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

But to put it into plain language, the ego is here, there, and everywhere, and as such can never be satisfied, with only one conclusion. 

Suffering.

The ego has no substance, and therefore is unreal, and again with the same conclusion.

More suffering.

Then where does pleasure come from?  I've had at least my share of pleasure in life and only in a few totally wasted states of mind would I say that I was ever 'ego-less'/without thought.  I realize that an ego-less, unattached state itself is supposed to be pleasurable but I don't know if I personally would prefer it to my normal, I guess ego-present pleasures.

Another thing I've wondered also is how these kind of teachings address the benefits of suffering.  Suffering is unpleasant by definition and can be harmful, but there are a lot of people who have also said that going through periods of suffering were very meaningful experiences, and some in retrospect are glad that the suffering occurred as they improved as a person from the experience.  I think this is partly why I have skepticism about 'enlightenment' claims related to this; it doesn't seem to me to be any kind of higher state in any objective sense, I view it more as it is the best perspective for certain people.  I can see how people who have to deal with certain sufferings or can't in general get out from under even the more mundane ones would definitely benefit from letting go of the ego and hopefully getting some detachment from their pain.  But I'm not sure right now, it could change in the future, that I want to give up or risk ruining the ego-present pleasures I enjoy even if that puts me at risk for more suffering.  Different people, different needs; different maladies, different prescriptions.

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4 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Where one is lead by the heart, and thoughts play little, if any part of it.

Hi Crazy Horse

Where I come from we have a name for people like this, Mark.

Thinking is what make us unique and has advanced us to achieve all the comforts and safety you enjoy today.

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4 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Then where does pleasure come from?  I've had at least my share of pleasure in life and only in a few totally wasted states of mind would I say that I was ever 'ego-less'/without thought.  I realize that an ego-less, unattached state itself is supposed to be pleasurable but I don't know if I personally would prefer it to my normal, I guess ego-present pleasures.

Another thing I've wondered also is how these kind of teachings address the benefits of suffering.  Suffering is unpleasant by definition and can be harmful, but there are a lot of people who have also said that going through periods of suffering were very meaningful experiences, and some in retrospect are glad that the suffering occurred as they improved as a person from the experience.  I think this is partly why I have skepticism about 'enlightenment' claims related to this; it doesn't seem to me to be any kind of higher state in any objective sense, I view it more as it is the best perspective for certain people.  I can see how people who have to deal with certain sufferings or can't in general get out from under even the more mundane ones would definitely benefit from letting go of the ego and hopefully getting some detachment from their pain.  But I'm not sure right now, it could change in the future, that I want to give up or risk ruining the ego-present pleasures I enjoy even if that puts me at risk for more suffering.  Different people, different needs; different maladies, different prescriptions.

The pleasure is in the peacefulness of ones life.

Of connecting to THAT, via a peaceful, thoughtless state of being. Which is easy and difficult at the same time...lol.

The thing is, with ego-present pleasures, they ultimately lead one to some kind of regret, or feelings of remorse..

Don't get me wrong, our senses can give us some extraordinary moments of total ecstasy, but, what goes up....

Suffering is inescapable within the ego. And so one may make the decision as to take it wisely, or egocentrically. 

Basically, suffering is going to happen, learn, set a good example, be mindful, and turn a perceived set-back, into the next golden opportunity.

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