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Enlightenment by virtuous conduct alone...


Ajay0
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42 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, I have blamed the ego, for all my woes on more than one occasion, that's true.

But I have also said that any harsh lesson can be turned to Gold, too.

The higher mind is good for one thing, to take one to the Gates of the Kingdom. 

But to explore THAT Place, all thoughts, concepts, perceptions etc, must be left behind.

No need for any bad feelings.

You sound like you have checked out, common to a person trying to avoid their life. 

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1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

You sound like you have checked out, common to a person trying to avoid their life. 

Escapism. At least depression taught me about that.

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3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

A cold, cruel, and compassionless teacher at that. 

And, you made it thru. Wow, incredible. Not easy either.  My son did too and he has a whole lot of wisdom and self awareness, compassion and empathy  as a result too. 

Edited by Sherapy
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45 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

And, you made it thru. Wow, incredible. Not easy either.  My son did too and he has a whole lot of wisdom and self awareness, compassion and empathy  as a result too. 

The only way I can describe it for myself is hitting the bottom of the barrel, then digging deeper. So long as you're digging, you'll eventually come out the otherside. With who you used to be left behind. In my case it was a combination of many things. The process ripped me from my comfort zone, showed me my illusions and delusion. How powerless I really was. Leaving me empty. Till I got to a point where I almost vanquished my self (ego). I know that feeling of utter hopelessness. Where there is a need to find some from of escapism. Rather than facing reality. Facing yourself. That isn't easy and I'm not finish, this will probably be a life long battle to a greater or lesser degree. So long as I keep going things will be just the tiniest bit better. To me it wasn't about being positive, it was about perseverance. 

The discussion over the past few pages reminds me of my struggle in a way. Wanting to vanquish the self, the need for bliss, and a desire to disconnect from one's life. 

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1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

But they don't, they just can lead to that.  There are many people who can enjoy the pleasure of a drink or two and never develop a problem with or regret about it.  There are many states of mind one can pursue in sexual relations of course but a lot of the best ones require that the participants have a 'self' involved with it; the metaphorical 'dead fish' situation is definitely something to be avoided.

...must come back down to earth.  Not down to hell.

There are always some feelings of loss, regret, remorse, anger and frustration etc, etc, etc..

These feelings can be quite mild in nature, although there have been times when the slightest, petty difference, has given someone a lifetime of regret and remorse to ponder. And actually, living a hellish life..

All because someone allowed their ego to completely loose-IT..

The good news is, that, as one losses the ego, one becomes more connected to THAT.

And THAT, has many benefits.

 

 

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Enlightenment and it's pursuit is too often a code word for running away from life, a refusal to learn and cope with it and from it. Dropping out was the In thing in the sixties. I remember Stan Lee's comic book character, The Mighty Thor, confronting a pair hippies who had "dropped out". He said something like this to them:

"Although you are truly pure of heart, in your innocence you are far misguided.

The true Guru you seek lies within yourselves.

'Tis not by dropping out, but by plunging into the maelstrom of life that you will find your wisdom.

For there are causes to espouse, battles to be won. There is glory and grandeur all about you if you will but see it.

Aye, there will be time enough to disavow your heritage, time enough when death has claimed you.

Yet, as long as life endures you must live it to the full, or else be unworthy of the title, Man."        Stan Lee   more or less.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

The only way I can describe it for myself is hitting the bottom of the barrel, then digging deeper. So long as you're digging, you'll eventually come out the otherside. With who you used to be left behind. In my case it was a combination of many things. The process ripped me from my comfort zone, showed me my illusions and delusion. How powerless I really was. Leaving me empty. Till I got to a point where I almost vanquished my self (ego). I know that feeling of utter hopelessness. Where there is a need to find some from of escapism. Rather than facing reality. Facing yourself. That isn't easy and I'm not finish, this will probably be a life long battle to a greater or lesser degree. So long as I keep going things will be just the tiniest bit better. To me it wasn't about being positive, it was about perseverance. 

The discussion over the past few pages reminds me of my struggle in a way. Wanting to vanquish the self, the need for bliss, and a desire to disconnect from one's life. 

I think it is a common story. I used to say in the midst of my own turmoil that my conditioning was breaking apart making room for new and improved. I often say I went thru a complete remodel. :D

I like many humans couldn’t face or handle anything but the positive. I didn’t realize how deeply entrenched I was in my own narrative, Then a situation hit that showed me how full of shyt and dysfunctional I was and how little I was even present for life, you might remember I call it the “Helen experience” that night mare was the much needed catalyst for my remodel.  It was a wake up call that I heeded. I am so pleased I listened. 
 

I see a lot of myself in many of the stories on here too. 
 

Everybody has a branch on the sorrow tree and if I had to choose my suffering I will stick with my own, it has served me well. 

Edited by Sherapy
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23 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Enlightenment and it's pursuit is too often a code word for running away from life, a refusal to learn and cope with it and from it. Dropping out was the In thing in the sixties. I remember Stan Lee's comic book character, The Mighty Thor, confronting a pair hippies who had "dropped out". He said something like this to them:

"Although you are truly pure of heart, in your innocence you are far misguided.

The true Guru you seek lies within yourselves.

'Tis not by dropping out, but by plunging into the maelstrom of life that you will find your wisdom.

For there are causes to espouse, battles to be won. There is glory and grandeur all about you if you will but see it.

Aye, there will be time enough to disavow your heritage, time enough when death has claimed you.

Yet, as long as life endures you must live it to the full, or else be unworthy of the title, Man."        Stan Lee   more or less.

Excellent add too.

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35 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The true Guru you seek lies within yourselves.

The Mighty Thor is indeed occasionally full of wisdom but the above line doesn't jibe well with the scenario.  If there was a general 'group' who was more focused on seeking the guru within themselves in the mid-late 60s, it was the hippies (although their track record of achieving it is certainly debatable).  

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19 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

The Mighty Thor is indeed occasionally full of wisdom but the above line doesn't jibe well with the scenario.  If there was a general 'group' who was more focused on seeking the guru within themselves in the mid-late 60s, it was the hippies (although their track record of achieving it is certainly debatable).  

It's from a comic book, don't over analyze. It was originally couched in pseudo Elizabethan English, common for Thor in that era. The modern version is mine. It was just some of Stan-on-his-soapbox pontification.

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2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

There are always some feelings of loss, regret, remorse, anger and frustration etc, etc, etc..

These feelings can be quite mild in nature, although there have been times when the slightest, petty difference, has given someone a lifetime of regret and remorse to ponder. And actually, living a hellish life..

All because someone allowed their ego to completely loose-IT..

The good news is, that, as one losses the ego, one becomes more connected to THAT.

And THAT, has many benefits.

 

 

The ego is a system of adaptation between one’s inner life( conditioning, personality, influences etc. and external factors). An underdeveloped ego can show itself in one that struggles adapting to internal or external factors. Ego development comes from an interaction between the organism and one’s environment often in the form or milestones or conflicts (can include internal or external pressures). Seeking to annihilate one’s ego is an extreme reaction it is better to face what the issue is and work through it, go from there. CH it sounds like you have an issue that you are struggling to deal with and you are catastrophizing with fantasies of ego annihilation, in reality speak it sounds like you want an end to the problem by disappearing all together “killing off your ego,” it reminds me a lot of your revenge fantasies. :P

an add too

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/theory-knowledge/201306/the-elements-ego-functioning

Just my two cents. 

Edited by Sherapy
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34 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's from a comic book, don't over analyze. It was originally couched in pseudo Elizabethan English, common for Thor in that era. The modern version is mine. It was just some of Stan-on-his-soapbox pontification.

It is a good point IMHO, Remember EST? 
 

http://www.wernererhard.net/standardtraining.html

Edited by Sherapy
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10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

The ego is a system of adaptation between one’s inner life( conditioning, personality, influences etc. and external factors). An underdeveloped ego can show itself in one that struggles adapting to internal or external factors. Ego development comes from an interaction between the organism and one’s environment often in the form or milestones or conflicts (can include internal or external pressures). Seeking to annihilate one’s ego is an extreme reaction it is better to face what the issue is and work through it, go from there. CH it sounds like you have an issue that you are struggling to deal with and you are catastrophizing with fantasies of ego annihilation, in reality speak it sounds like you want an end to the problem by disappearing all together “killing off your ego,” it reminds me a lot of your revenge fantasies. :P

an add too

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/theory-knowledge/201306/the-elements-ego-functioning

Just my two cents. 

If you want to put all your trust and faith, all your stock into something that is unreal, and can only lead one to various degrees of suffering, then that's your choice.

What does the Buddha, and the Zen Masters have to say about ego?

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32 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

If you want to put all your trust and faith, all your stock into something that is unreal, and can only lead one to various degrees of suffering, then that's your choice.

What does the Buddha, and the Zen Masters have to say about ego?

Your hell is your own. Not everyone shares your views. Considering that even you put stock in imaginary things.

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42 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Your hell is your own. Not everyone shares your views. Considering that even you put stock in imaginary things.

Not so..

There is nothing imaginary about GOD. 

But perhaps you could tell everyone what the Buddhist, Hindu, and Christian perspective is, upon the ego?

And FYI this one does not live in hell, not in any way, shape, or form.

May one assume that that, is only your own projection?

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1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

Not so..

There is nothing imaginary about GOD. 

But perhaps you could tell everyone what the Buddhist, Hindu, and Christian perspective is, upon the ego?

And FYI this one does not live in hell, not in any way, shape, or form.

May one assume that that, is only your own projection?

You don't live in reality that's for sure. If you feel the need to commit psychological suicide, fine, become a philosophical zombie. 

I personally don't care about the opinion of three made up religions. If god isn't imaginary, prove it exist. I can wait. 

I like myself, guess I'm more adjusted than you. Because I see no need to eliminate a part of who I am. I accept myself. The strengths as well as the weaknesses. Feels nice to be fully human. You should try it. 

Quote

A philosophical zombie or p-zombie argument is a thought experiment in philosophy of mind that imagines a hypothetical being that is physically identical to and indistinguishable from a normal person but does not have conscious experience, qualia, or sentience.[1] For example, if a philosophical zombie were poked with a sharp object it would not inwardly feel any pain, yet it would outwardly behave exactly as if it did feel pain, including verbally expressing pain. Relatedly, a zombie world is a hypothetical world indistinguishable from our world but in which all beings lack conscious experience.

Go ahead pop a cap in that ego. Then you'd have no need to interact with others. 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

You don't live in reality that's for sure. If you feel the need to commit psychological suicide, fine, become a philosophical zombie. 

I personally don't care about the opinion of three made up religions. If god isn't imaginary, prove it exist. I can wait. 

I like myself, guess I'm more adjusted than you. Because I see no need to eliminate a part of who I am. I accept myself. The strengths as well as the weaknesses. Feels nice to be fully human. You should try it. 

Go ahead pop a cap in that ego. Then you'd have no need to interact with others. 

You can only prove it to yourself.

Yet it is very, very quick and easy, if there is a difficulty, it is staying in THAT moment. yet with practice, anything is possible.

And you seem to labouring under the impression that having no ego, means no interaction with other folk, which to be quite honest, is completely absurd.

To be fully human, one must remove what isn't real, and abide, spontaneously, from a place of Love, which is GOD, whether one knows that or not.

 

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2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

You can only prove it to yourself.

You keep saying that, yet I have tried using all of the “methods” you have suggested and it never amounts to anything beyond a session of meditation. Either I am not doing it properly, or your “GOD” doesn’t actually exist. 

Whatever makes you feel special, I guess. :whistle:

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Just now, Crazy Horse said:

You can only prove it to yourself.  That's intellectually lazy on your part. 

Yet it is very, very quick and easy, if there is a difficulty, it is staying in THAT moment. yet with practice, anything is possible. 

And you seem to labouring under the impression that having no ego, means no interaction with other folk, which to be quite honest, is completely absurd.

To be fully human, one must remove what isn't real, and abide, spontaneously, from a place of Love, which is GOD, whether one knows that or not.

 

You can't vanquish your ego, it is an essential part of who you are. What you need is a better personality. That's the actually source of your grief. 

So I remove god and I become fully human. Because if god wanted my attention it wouldn't take much and for me it need to be a working relationship. Not something I have to put all the effort in. One sided love is a fool's game. 

You don't engage in actually conversation either. Perhaps you're too afraid to do such a thing. Instead I notice it all comes down to a "THAT" full stop. 

Spend some time actually improving yourself, quit worrying about your ego and become a better person. 

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Just now, Nuclear Wessel said:

You keep saying that, yet I have tried using all of the “methods” you have suggested and it never amounts to anything beyond a session of meditation. Either I am not doing it properly, or your “GOD” doesn’t actually exist. 

Whatever makes you feel special, I guess. :whistle:

All you get is a feeling. A feeling that you can associate with "God". As Davros would call it "the holy dopamine ghost". 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

All you get is a feeling. A feeling that you can associate with "God". As Davros would call it "the holy dopamine ghost". 

Yes, something that can be explained without involving “GOD”. Not sure why he thinks there is anything more to these experiences.

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1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Yes, something that can be explained without involving “GOD”. Not sure why he thinks there is anything more to these experiences.

I'm at a lose as well. Probably an emotion "ego" driven desire. 

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You boys need to stop pickin' on the weird kid. He can't help bein' like that. Try showin' a little compassion for Chrissakes. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to give you both detention.:devil:

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