The Presidential Debates

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, ian hacktorp said:

I guess you mean Biden has to be on "Adderall" to have a chance.

Get real, 2 guys in there 70s and trump being obese they both do take medication,

we have never seen trumps proof he had the alleged bone spurs he used to dodge the draft and have some other guy fight in his place, so a bit hypicritical for him to be so deeply scared to debait biden he has to cry biden is on medication.

I have no clue what treatmemt or medication trump is on to be able to drink a glass of water and walk a ramp without help,  are you suggesting "adderall" ?

Here is another opinion with more credibility that yours, that collaborates your theory.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-snorted-adderall-apprentice-tom-arnold-noel-casler-1257787

[ian hacktorp]

26 minutes ago, the13bats said:

so a bit hypicritical for him to be so deeply scared to debait biden he has to cry biden is on medication.

Well, I'm already on record predicting that Biden won't show up for any debate, so, for me, the question of Biden's medications are pretty much moot.

We'll see what happens.

[+OverSword]

They will both show up.  If trump doesn't cream hidin biden I will be surprised.

[the13bats]

17 minutes ago, ian hacktorp said:

Well, I'm already on record predicting that Biden won't show up for any debate, so, for me, the question of Biden's medications are pretty much moot.

We'll see what happens.

Weird back pedal making your comment about medication babbling moot, so we agree there.

i believe biden and trump for that matter both know they have to show, if either punk out and no show its pretty much handing the election to their rival,

I mention trump as a possible no show as he seems genuine scared to face biden and rightly so.

[the13bats]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

They will both show up.  If trump doesn't cream hidin biden I will be surprised.

[bee]

42 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I mention trump as a possible no show as he seems genuine scared to face biden and rightly so.

 

very funny

in the words of John McEnroe..... " you cannot be serious..."

 

[the13bats]

48 minutes ago, bee said:

 

very funny

in the words of John McEnroe..... " you cannot be serious..."

 

You dont have your own words?

It is funny, in a way tweety blustered and brayed about how he will destroy biden then reality set in and he started planting seeds for future excuses when biden spanks trump capt bone spur can babble and stutter how biden takes medication and thats how biden beat him, trump does seem very scared to face biden.

He was always scared of biden even before biden was up against him for potus.

Pretty sad don is so scared of a guy he calls sleepy.

[Tatetopa]

7 hours ago, OverSword said:

They will both show up.  If trump doesn't cream hidin biden I will be surprised.

If you just observe the two making speeches, it is not so clear that Trump will cream Biden.  Donald Trump is not exactly lucid or easy to follow in his speaking style 

Trump is great at rally speeches with a background of cheering.  He survives press conferences by ignoring hostile questions or walking out.  The debates will  be on neutral turf without the benefit of a cheering crowd.

You can love the guy but that does not change the fact that he is not great with coherent arguments or presenting factual plans.

 

[the13bats]

16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

If you just observe the two making speeches, it is not so clear that Trump will cream Biden.  Donald Trump is not exactly lucid or easy to follow in his speaking style 

Trump is great at rally speeches with a background of cheering.  He survives press conferences by ignoring hostile questions or walking out.  The debates will  be on neutral turf without the benefit of a cheering crowd.

You can love the guy but that does not change the fact that he is not great with coherent arguments or presenting factual plans.

 

You said that so much better than i do, but no, trump isnt an on the fly type person, his go to is avoiding, hit and run when confronted and called out, we see that when he insults reporters for asking questions he doesnt like then stomping away, that wont float at debates hes locked in, sure, he can get unhinged toss and insult stomp off, it will just hand 2020 to biden,

 

[bee]

6 hours ago, the13bats said:

You dont have your own words?

It is funny, in a way tweety blustered and brayed about how he will destroy biden then reality set in and he started planting seeds for future excuses when biden spanks trump capt bone spur can babble and stutter how biden takes medication and thats how biden beat him, trump does seem very scared to face biden.

He was always scared of biden even before biden was up against him for potus.

Pretty sad don is so scared of a guy he calls sleepy.

Trumps not scared of Biden...

 

 

 

 

[RAyMO]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If you just observe the two making speeches, it is not so clear that Trump will cream Biden.  Donald Trump is not exactly lucid or easy to follow in his speaking style 

Trump is great at rally speeches with a background of cheering.  He survives press conferences by ignoring hostile questions or walking out.  The debates will  be on neutral turf without the benefit of a cheering crowd.

You can love the guy but that does not change the fact that he is not great with coherent arguments or presenting factual plans.

 

Trumps twits show that he is easy to wind up and is often childish, factually devoid and as you say confusing, in his responses, I would think / hope that Biden will be well primed to push Trumps buttons. While Trump may be eager for a debate, I am not sure his handlers will be calmly awaiting the prospect. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by RAyMO

[bee]

 

If (IF) Biden actually debates Trump live... perhaps he will give us all a laugh and call Trump a 'lying dog faced pony soldier'...

 

 

[RAyMO]

16 minutes ago, bee said:

 

If (IF) Biden actually debates Trump live... perhaps he will give us all a laugh and call Trump a 'lying dog faced pony soldier'...

 

 

Not even Biden would call trump a soldier

[bee]

26 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Not even Biden would call trump a soldier

 

yes - Trump's just the Commander in Chief ... 

 

[+OverSword]

11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If you just observe the two making speeches, it is not so clear that Trump will cream Biden.  Donald Trump is not exactly lucid or easy to follow in his speaking style 

Trump is great at rally speeches with a background of cheering.  He survives press conferences by ignoring hostile questions or walking out.  The debates will  be on neutral turf without the benefit of a cheering crowd.

You can love the guy but that does not change the fact that he is not great with coherent arguments or presenting factual plans.

 

I do not love the guy but here is the key I think.  Trump is used to speaking on the fly and under pressure, biden is like the debate equivalent of starting Brett Favre tomorrow after years of retirement and no training camp.  I believe trump will handle him.  I don't believe that the debates will decide much though as I'm pretty sure most of America knows that they will vote for or against trump at this point.  Hardly anyone is voting for biden though.  He is just the lesser of two evils for most that vote for him.  He's far from inspirational. 

[Tatetopa]

28 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I do not love the guy but here is the key I think.  Trump is used to speaking on the fly and under pressure

Perhaps, yet he has a pretty standard and limited tool box to deal with it.  "I never said that.  That is a disgusting question.  You are a loser.  I have a plan. It will all get better."

A nation like ours should not run on executive orders  There needs to be some planning, some follow through, and some accountability.  This is my major objection to President Trump.  Not that he is a conservative (he isn't) , or that he is an outsider, or that he is straight forward in his speech (questionable) or that he is orange.

My major objection to President Trump is that he has never gotten beyond being a unitary executive in a small family business.  He operates on the fly more in response to situations than to shape them.  Unquestionably he is great at that and a master of diversion and spin.

He cannot stand at a podium and present a coherent detailed answer if asked about his administration's plan on any subject.  They don't have one.

[spartan max2]

23 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Perhaps, yet he has a pretty standard and limited tool box to deal with it.  "I never said that.  That is a disgusting question.  You are a loser.  I have a plan. It will all get better."

A nation like ours should not run on executive orders  There needs to be some planning, some follow through, and some accountability.  This is my major objection to President Trump.  Not that he is a conservative (he isn't) , or that he is an outsider, or that he is straight forward in his speech (questionable) or that he is orange.

My major objection to President Trump is that he has never gotten beyond being a unitary executive in a small family business.  He operates on the fly more in response to situations than to shape them.  Unquestionably he is great at that and a master of diversion and spin.

He cannot stand at a podium and present a coherent detailed answer if asked about his administration's plan on any subject.  They don't have one.

I agree, I think executive orders have been increasing in power to a scary amount in the past decade or two and that got excelerated even more by Covid.

Do you also think states have being using executive orders too much ?

With Covid we have governor being able to basically shut down anything they want with executive orders. Any part of the economy. Little push back about due process.

Even now the governor of California used an executive order to ban the sale of new gas powered cars by 2035. Does that seem like something that should be voted on? 

[+OverSword]

12 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I agree, I think executive orders have been increasing in power to a scary amount in the past decade or two and that got excelerated even more by Covid.

Do you also think states have being using executive orders too much ?

With Covid we have governor being able to basically shut down anything they want with executive orders. Any part of the economy. Little push back about due process.

Even now the governor of California used an executive order to ban the sale of new gas powered cars by 2035. Does that seem like something that should be voted on? 

excellent point.  Our government(s) are out of control.  Vote Libertarian  

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

excellent point.  Our government(s) are out of control.  Vote Libertarian  

Not until we get ranked choice voting. 

Third party advocates should push for ranked choice voting over everything else because the only way for third parties to become valid is a structural change.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

18 hours ago, the13bats said:

You dont have your own words?

It is funny, in a way tweety blustered and brayed about how he will destroy biden then reality set in and he started planting seeds for future excuses when biden spanks trump capt bone spur can babble and stutter how biden takes medication and thats how biden beat him, trump does seem very scared to face biden.

He was always scared of biden even before biden was up against him for potus.

Pretty sad don is so scared of a guy he calls sleepy.

 

I think Bee was trying to project an image of "You cannot be Serious"

[+OverSword]

9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Not until we get ranked choice voting. 

Third party advocates should push for ranked choice voting over everything else because the only way for third parties to become valid is a structural change.

Interesting.  Never heard of that before.

[spartan max2]

14 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Interesting.  Never heard of that before.

It's where you rank your choices. If your first pick didn't make it to the top two then it moves your vote to your second pick.

I saw it brought up alot during the primary.

[the13bats]

54 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

 

I think Bee was trying to project an image of "You cannot be Serious"

Oh, then both her and you failed, epic.

[RavenHawk]

On 9/24/2020 at 7:42 AM, Katniss said:

Well to be fair there is always a first time Allan Lichtman can be wrong, even with a stellar prediction record since 1984.

In this year and this incumbent, you better believe it.  The establishment doesn’t know how to deal with him and neither have they been able to corral him.  That has been for the benefit of *ALL* Americans.  He is between us and the bureaucracy.  As Lichtman had stated about polls, they only give you a snapshot at any one moment in time.  And even with his method, you need to be in the right frame of mind and as I’ve shown, he is not.  I’m not trying to claim that I am in the right frame of mind, but I am looking at what Trump has done and not through the lens of the MSM’s perception of what his failures are.  And that has come up with a completely different score.  The actual score is probably somewhere in-between.  I don’t think most people fall for the trick by the MSM anymore.  Their market shares have been dropping.  I find that many highly intelligent unaware people do still follow the MSM. 

 

I always speak of other indicators to look for, like the numbers and enthusiasm at Trump rallies.  Many times more Trump supporters show up to Biden events than Biden supporters.  There are other things like Trumptillias all over the country.  Car rallies.  I saw a report of a Biden car rally with all 3 cars.  It’s like the 3 Indian’s fans in ‘Major League’ trying to do the wave.  Of late, I’ve seen many Trump golf cart rallies going on in The Villages, FL.  Although, I did see one Biden golf cart rally.  You got to watch out for those anti-Trumper grannies!  Ricky Rebel singing “MAGA” is awesome.  Other things to look at is how each Convention played to their supporters.  The RNC was upbeat and positive, full of hope and looking to a bright future.  This is the mindset of Trump supporters.  The DNC was dark and hate filled.  I couldn’t watch it too long without getting mentally ill.  And that describes the Left pretty well.

 

Have you ever been to a Trump rally?  At least seen one televised?  The televised one doesn’t do being in person justice.  It is wild, loud, rowdy, and fun.  It’s like going to a rock concert.  There is a lot of hope and love at these things.  We went to the one here last year.  We came prepared.  We had our tent, folding chairs, food, water, clothes, umbrellas, you name it and a beach wagon to put it all in.  We initially wanted to get in line and scope out the situation before hauling everything.  So we brought just the chairs and some food/water in a wheeled cooler.    About an hour after we got there, the line began to move and shift.  They weren’t going in yet.  But we figured we didn’t need the tent. 

 

Everyone was friendly.  The never-Trumpers that were there protesting didn’t yell or anything.  They just held their signs up and everybody was kewl with that.  It was very festive, like a state fair or tailgate party.  Everybody was doing their own thing.  Politicians were out doing their thing.  The diversity stuck out.  Now our population is mostly divided between Hispanic and White, but there were Blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and others (all New Mexicans and Americans).  There were “lesbians for Trump”, Lady MAGA was there.  There were just as many (if not more) women there.  There were youth by the score.  Some youth were dressed up Alex Keaton like and then you had those like us in shorts going “hippie”.  And I had never seen as many wheelchairs and walkers.  There were easily 10,000 there and the arena only holds about 8500.  And they were still driving in.  You could see caravans of people that had to park a mile or two away walking in.

 

We were getting to know our neighbors.  One older gentleman was here from out of town visiting his daughter.  They just decided to come out at the last minute and they hadn’t prepared.  Here in New Mexico, if you’re not use to the sun and altitude, it can be deadly.  The daughter told us that he had heart problems and he was looking a bit pale.  We gave him some of our water and food and had him sit under a nearby tree.  There was an elderly couple in front of us that was in the same situation, not being prepared for the heat.  We had a spare hat for the woman and we gave them some of our food and water.  The remaining 4 or 5 hours, we doled out all our food and water.  It made packing up easier.  We couldn’t bring anything in so before the line got close to the front doors, I carted everything back to the car and purchased a NM Zia/Gadsden flag.

 

We figured we were about the 4000th of the 8500.  When we got inside, I had looked behind me and all I could see was an ocean of faces waiting to get in.  Not all were going to make it in but some came out to watch on the jumbotron setup outside.  We found some seats and the place was already roaring a good hour before Trump showed.  The TV mics don’t pick this stuff up.  We got some of the typical Trump posters.  And for over two or three hours, the noise level kept going up.

 

What does the Left offer?  Antifa and BLM.  Violence and hate.  “Pigs in a blanket, fry’m like bacon”, “ACAB”, “Burn the MF-er down”.  These are the terms of endearment we hear from the Left.  This has nothing to do with systemic racism which doesn’t exist.  The stats do not show it.  This is nothing but to create anarchy to overthrow Trump.  Most people know this and they want no part of it.  Biden can’t control this and neither do his handlers want to as they can use this violence to further their agenda after the election.

 

In recent rallies you can hear the chants of “lock her up” change to “we love you”.  Yes, it is almost reaching cult levels.  But it’s not.  It’s not anything close to the fawning that occurred with Obama.  Because of that, the Left are jealous and it just makes them hate even more.  No one can hold onto this kind of hate indefinitely and remain healthy.  I’ve seen many casualties from this forum alone.  The Left is going to increase the violence, but many cities will withstand it.  One other thing is energy levels.  Trump is everywhere, go – go – go.  Biden is back in his bunker.  I think they are trying to change Biden’s internal clock so that his Sundowner syndrome doesn’t bother him during the first debate.  Sorry for being long winded on this but all of this is my indicator for what’s going to happen in November.

 

But on the other hand, Lichtman could still be right about Biden being the winning candidate and yet somehow Trump could still remain President for the next four years through some unforeseen circumstance. Stranger things have been know to happen,

Only the polls show that Biden has a lock, so I would consider that if Biden wins, that will be because of some unforeseen circumstance.

 

like this Covid-19 pandemic happening during a presidential election cycle. I would have never foreseen something like that hurting Trump's chances of winning a reelection, because like most people before the pandemic, I thought for sure Trump would be reelected a second time. And if it weren't for the pandemic and the disastrous domino effect it has caused so far, like the high unemployment, I would have still believed Trump would win again.

Still believe!  I really have faith in the American people that they are not as stupid as the Left thinks they are.  Those not blinded by hate can still see that their futures are more tied to Trump than to the Left.  Why I say “the Left” and not Biden is because as soon as his usefulness is over, they will discard him and that will be shortly after the election.  Biden has about another month of relevancy.  Most see the violence and the pandemic as attacks on Trump by the Left.  It is the same kind of anarchy you see in third-world nations.  Now don’t misread me, covid is real but there was no reason to panic.  As Rahm was so found of saying, “why waste a good crisis?”  From the beginning, the Left has been foaming panic.  The news is not those that have died from covid, it is that this is a soft coup happening right before our eyes.  There has been a peaceful transfer of power in this country every time, up until the last one, four years ago.  Ever since then, the Left has been spying on the current Administration.  They have been leaking info and thwarting this President.  Trying to keep things unstable.  And they have been failing every single time and I suspect that this time around will be no different.  Inept ideology can’t win unless by some unforeseen circumstance.

[RoofGardener]

Well, its less than 24 hours to go. I am VERY much looking forwards to this. 

I still suspect that Joe Biden will somehow duck out of the event, though I must admit I can't see how he could possibly do that at this late stage without looking like a complete washout in front of his voter base, and practically handing the election to President Trump. 

On the other hand, I can't see how Joe Biden could POSSIBLY survive the event. I'm basing this on his recent media 'appearances'. He's only done very lightweight stuff: scripted statements, or pre-arranged "soft" questions from (seemingly) compliant 'journalists'. Even then, he's managed a few bloopers. How he will cope with even mildly aggressive questions from a neutral (?) moderator, and having his response compared to President Trumps.... well.... I really can't see him prevailing ? 

In point of fact, I think the President will eviscerate him. 

< gets popcorn out > 

 

On 9/25/2020 at 5:35 PM, OverSword said:

excellent point.  Our government(s) are out of control.  Vote Libertarian  

Well, I suppose they'd have a good policy of returning books on time, and ensuring that everything is put on the shelves in the correct order, but I'm not sure how they would cope with general politics ? 

Oh wait.. LIBERTARIANS ? I thought you said Librari..... never mind.