The Presidential Debates

[Michelle]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

The problem with your approach is that it is flawed, the Children in question were accompanied by parents and nothing you have posted proves otherwise.

And you haven't proven they were indeed with their parents or a relative.

[Grim Reaper 6]

25 minutes ago, Michelle said:

And you haven't proven they were indeed with their parents or a relative.

Well according to the court documents I provided I have proven my point, guess you didn't read the documents in the link!

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/10/20/ms_l_v_us_immigration_and_customs_enforcement__casdce-18-00428__0556.0.pdf

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Manwon Lender
Added link

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Well, I appreciate the respectful long answer.   However;  let me just put it in my perspective for you.  Neither you or I or anyone else on this forum or at large in Americana know anything about anything except what the Media has put out. Period.   You don't know anyone who works for the company that manufactures treatments...you read it in the press...if someone from the company said something...you don't know them...you just know that they reported something to the Media.    

Another thing to keep in mind is...He is the President of the United States of America.  He/Obama/Bush/Clinton/Reagan/Carter/Ford/Nixon...on and on and on have the very best medical staff available to anyone in the entire world.   On the other hand...the Media has already proven themselves to make up out of whole cloth anything they think can sway voters one way or the other...from Russian Collusion with Trump to Dan Rather making up stories about Bush  to  stories about the Contras and Reagan, and on and on.  

There is a chess game that neither you or I or any other American or citizen of the world at large know anything about.  But we do know that the Media cannot be trusted.  Period.  And everything you think you or anyone else knows about anything that happens in Washington comes from...The Media.  That's all.

Kind of a swerve there to take focus off what i said that was pretty solid by claiming im duped by the media, it falls short in this one.

Well, i did get my info from various media sources concerning that the covid drug trump took was created with research using fetal cells from a baby aborted in the 70s, the company released the info im sure you have 101 reasons they would make it up but im good being guilble and taking them on their word for it, since it wasnt exactaly a positive thing, if that company did lie they used fetal cells in their research so be it.

I have come to my opinions that trump is a self serving self centered ego maniac who doesnt care about others not from the media its from things ive seen him do or heard him say, it might have been live like debates or a prerecorded interview but it was trump not a mouthpiece "max headroom" of him.

So that part i do know, no amount of saying the media did this or that in forming my opinion of trump applies because i do get your point about slanted biased media, like when tucker called trump a full of bs liar and tried to paint that as a good thing,

i only use what comes out of the horses mouth to form my opinions about trump i never suggested you change your very different opinions about him.

 

[bee]

 

I thought the second and final debate was better than the first....

As far as I'm concerned Trump is the real deal... trying to lead and serve his country as a president should - taking a pragmatic approach and trying to help the people and the country through practical measures like with the economy / jobs / border control / law and order...

Biden on the other hand - and as Trump said.... is all talk and to me he is just a typical 2nd rate professional politician spouting sound bites but not doing anything really helpful for America.... in fact quite the reverse...

I feel the reason Biden got to be the Presidential Candidate is because he provides a smoke screen for the real agenda that his backers have - a neo communist, globalist agenda...

I think he is happy to be the Trojan Horse for this agenda because he would love the status of being president and loves all the money he makes through his political career - (on top of the normal wages)....

 

[+DieChecker]

13 hours ago, the13bats said:

And trump is basically ripping kids from parents and storing people in cages so i dont see how either obama or trump is better in this one, of course i dont wear orange tint glasses.

I try not to wear such glasses, but the constant, over the top, overreaction and the wailing emotional appeals, makes it a bit hard at times not to.

I'm simply conservative... not stupid. Trump simply is the better vehicle to get to where I'd like to see things move. I'd ride in a horse cart, if it was taking me to work. 

[+DieChecker]

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Ah, so of course if it was wrong then, its OK for the next president to do it?  Or do you use reverse logic?  It is OK for Trump to do it so it must have been OK for Obama to do it too.

Two wrongs make it right?

It appears though that just about every major figure in politics DOES seem to practice... "Well they are doing it...".

IMHO, neither the Rs, or the Ds, can claim even a molehill of the moral high ground.

[+DieChecker]

11 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Did you know many of those Children have been there since 2018? 

Oh and by the way,  early you said that NPR is a biased site,  and then you use Alhazeera as your source now that is funny!

Well, I do very often use Liberal sources, as it seems the only currency that some i am discussing with will believe. 

I thought most have been on the list since 2017.

Not to defend Trumps actions over much, but none of those kids are in Federal custody. That i know of anyway. In 2017-2018 most, if not all, were removed from Federal care and housed with relatives, friends of family, or a volunteer sponsor. The 500+ are in many cases living with family... Just not their parents. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/us/migrant-children-separated.html

Quote

Once the existence of a larger group was revealed, the Trump administration fought for months against providing data on the additional families, arguing that it was not necessary because the children had already been released from federally overseen shelters and foster homes into the care of sponsors, who are typically relatives or family friends. The parents of the children had already been deported without them.

Quote

The 545 children whose parents have not been found were all initially placed in shelters or foster homes under the supervision of H.H.S. They were then released to sponsors, who are typically relatives or family friends. About 362 of the children also cannot be located because the contact information provided by their sponsors is no longer current. Many of the children are believed to be in the United States, though some may have returned to their home countries since they were released from federal custody.

So... They are still trying to find the parents... But have no idea where the kids currently are!!!

Thats more crazy then the initial separations, IMHO. 

[+DieChecker]

11 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Please back up your claim that 485 of those children's parents have been located and don't want them back. Your opinion isn't welcome, supply a link to where your information comes from. 

Oh and by the way, this isn't story time at Ravenhawks neighborhood.

Well, my earlier post...

Had a link that said about some of the 550+ children (Some are over 18 now) did have parents located, but they refused to cooperate with those who wanted to reunite them.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by DieChecker

[Myles]

17 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Ah, so of course if it was wrong then, its OK for the next president to do it?  Or do you use reverse logic?  It is OK for Trump to do it so it must have been OK for Obama to do it too.

Two wrongs make it right?

The same people who are voting for Biden are the ones complaining about the cages that Biden and Obama put into use.  That is the ironic thing about this argument.  I don't remember complaints about the kids in the cages when Obama was doing it.  

[+joc]

9 hours ago, the13bats said:

Well, i did get my info from various media sources concerning that the covid drug trump took was created with research using fetal cells from a baby aborted in the 70s, the company released the info im sure you have 101 reasons they would make it up but im good being guilble and taking them on their word for it, since it wasnt exactaly a positive thing, if that company did lie they used fetal cells in their research so be it.

Did they tell Trump, 'Hey now, we have a treatment but we wanted to ask you first because it was researched by using fetal cells aborted in the 70s' ?  Are you implying Trump knew?   Did they tell Trump?  And if they did, so what?  That makes him a hypocrite?  Maybe.  But the pot calling the kettle black has always been a tactic of the Media.  

I think it's all BS...I don't know, that's just what I think...and I think it's not true simply because I do not trust any Media and the election is in less than two weeks.  If you want to take the election out of the picture go ahead but keep in mind what I said about The Chess Game!

There isn't a Right tilted media and a Left tilted media.  It's all the same Media.  

I'm not a fan of any Media talking heads.  They are all the same...they are getting paid millions of dollars.  They all will say anything they are told to say, 

 

[lightly]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

 

There isn't a Right tilted media and a Left tilted media.  It's all the same Media.  

I'm not a fan of any Media talking heads.  They are all the same...they are getting paid millions of dollars.  They all will say anything they are told to say, 

 

      I think the terms ' right' and 'left' have been misconstrued to the point of meaninglessness.. but, that aside.....the interpretation and dissemination of The 'News' by CNN Or NEWSMAX ...  Is completely Opposite.    I watch both..and am constantly stunned by the juxtapositions .       I call CNN the anti trump channel, and NEWSMAX , the trump channel.  

  .as to your closing statement^ .....right on.  

[+DieChecker]

13 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/10/20/ms_l_v_us_immigration_and_customs_enforcement__casdce-18-00428__0556.0.pdf

The problem with your approach is that it is flawed, the Children in question were accompanied by parents and nothing you have posted proves otherwise. Above in the link proved is an official report by the state of California, designed to update the court on progress finding their parents.

This case isn't about sexual trafficking

It is true though that the Border Patrol has caught many sex traffickers, drug runners, gang members, and others, who have brought coerced, or stolen, children with them to try to get a easier time with the Border Patrol. 

Example...

https://www.newsweek.com/customs-border-protection-agents-toddler-fraudulent-family-u-s-mexico-border-1462040

Those who don't believe the Trump Admin probably won't believe this either, but...

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/29/708176435/fake-birth-certificates-and-fake-families-amid-migrant-surge-at-border

Quote

KIRSTJEN NIELSEN: Cases of fake families are popping up everywhere, and children are being used as pawns. In fact, we have uncovered child recycling rings, a process by which innocent child are used multiple times to help migrants gain illegal entry. As a nation, we cannot stand for this.

Could be that some if these missing family children are from this kind if fake family. It would explain why the contact info given by the "Parent" doesn't seem to be correct.

Edited October 24, 2020 by DieChecker

[+joc]

1 hour ago, lightly said:

      I think the terms ' right' and 'left' have been misconstrued to the point of meaninglessness.. but, that aside.....the interpretation and dissemination of The 'News' by CNN Or NEWSMAX ...  Is completely Opposite.    I watch both..and am constantly stunned by the juxtapositions .       I call CNN the anti trump channel, and NEWSMAX , the trump channel.  

  .as to your closing statement^ .....right on.  

You make a great point...their coverage is completely opposite.  So...let me expound on my point for a moment.  If you and I have an opposing view about something, you could say that on that issue we are  d i v i d e d.   I'm sure you have heard the phrase...Divide and Conquer.   That my friend is the phrase with which you have to view the Media through.  Divide and Conquer.  Divide who and conquer what?  Us   and   Money.   It's all about the money.  Money is power.  Money is everything.  Of course there is a Chess Game being played by those Elites who wish to win the money game.  There really are two opposing views.  Socialism and Capitalism.  Capitalism allows you and I the ability to create wealth.  Socialism gives the government the ability to take what you create and give it to those who have created nothing.  

It is all about Division of the People.   Never lose sight of that my friend.  CNN  vs Fox News = Division.

[RavenHawk]

17 hours ago, the13bats said:

Back up your claims with proof please

You are so stupid.  You can’t go google for yourself or pay attention to the news?  OK fine, here are just two of the articles out there:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/07/15/331477447/who-is-smuggling-immigrant-children-across-the-border

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/lawyers-say-they-can-t-find-parents-545-migrant-children-n1244066

 

The NPR one was harder to locate because of the idiotic story the MSM is flooding social media with.  The one that says that Trump says that actual coyotes are dragging children across the border.  Are they serious!  This just shows the low IQ of the MSM and the few that quaff their every word.  I think they do this on purpose to overwhelm the search engines so that you can’t find the real stories.  So you go waste your time.

 

The NBC one had a typical anti-Trump twist to it, but even after weeding through it, you begin to see that neither article comes close to the full story.  I would suggest that if you are truly interested in the facts that you go google more.  Otherwise, just chill and get use to disappointment.

 

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, Myles said:

The same people who are voting for Biden are the ones complaining about the cages that Biden and Obama put into use.  That is the ironic thing about this argument.  I don't remember complaints about the kids in the cages when Obama was doing it.  

I think if you go back and look, there were.  He earned the nickname "Deporter in Chief" too

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Myles said:

The same people who are voting for Biden are the ones complaining about the cages that Biden and Obama put into use.  That is the ironic thing about this argument.  I don't remember complaints about the kids in the cages when Obama was doing it.  

It makes you wonder if they're able to ignore facts that are in conflict with their beliefs.  The cages WERE created during the Obama administration.  NO ONE complained then but they are acting like it's a crime against humanity on Trump's watch.  This crowd started wailing and moaning and screeching the day after he was elected and they've never stopped since.  That's why it's so easy to ignore them like spastic, ill-mannered children.  BTW, the cages served a good purpose and no one speaks of that.  It was designed to keep predators away from these children.

[+and-then]

8 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I think if you go back and look, there were.  He earned the nickname "Deporter in Chief" too

If anyone complained, that story never had legs.  The golden one never caught flak for such things.  That's one of the biggest reasons that the Left are so easy to ignore as noise.

[bee]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

The NPR one was harder to locate because of the idiotic story the MSM is flooding social media with.  The one that says that Trump says that actual coyotes are dragging children across the border.  Are they serious!  This just shows the low IQ of the MSM and the few that quaff their every word.  I think they do this on purpose to overwhelm the search engines so that you can’t find the real stories.  So you go waste your time.

 

there are no depths of depravity too low for them...  

I remember when the invasion of migrants into Europe was happening and there was some footage of it - a youngish man ( no female with him) was carrying a child about 1 1/2 years old - the way the child was holding itself and pushing away from him and the look of alarm on the child's face gave me the strong impression that the child had probably been grabbed - taken from it's family - 

Trump's trying to tackle this evil going on at your southern border but all the MSM and the Democrats can do is criticize and minimize the problem.....like Biden in the debate... it's a disgrace.... an utter disgrace... 

 

[Raptor Witness]

The rabid Republicans are still wandering our neighborhoods. We need to call this what it really is. 

 

 

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, and then said:

If anyone complained, that story never had legs.  The golden one never caught flak for such things.  That's one of the biggest reasons that the Left are so easy to ignore as noise.

It did get a little negative press when the facilities were built for families to be held for 72 hours.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not

The Obama Record on Deportations: Deporter in Chief or Not?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President

https://www.npr.org/2017/01/20/510799842/obama-leaves-office-as-deporter-in-chief

Obama Leaves Office As 'Deporter-In-Chief'

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/12/biden-immigration-2020-1411691

Biden under fire for mass deportations under Obama

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/aca6ab76

Obama administration had built the cages for immigrants.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/09/viral-image/photo-detained-child-migrants-2019-not-2014/

 

Photo shows “‘kids in cages’ taken in 2014 under the Obama admin.”

 

•  

 

By Ciara O'RourkeSeptember 9, 2020

This photo of detained child migrants is from 2019, not 2014

[lightly]

6 hours ago, joc said:

You make a great point...their coverage is completely opposite.  So...let me expound on my point for a moment.  If you and I have an opposing view about something, you could say that on that issue we are  d i v i d e d.   I'm sure you have heard the phrase...Divide and Conquer.   That my friend is the phrase with which you have to view the Media through.  Divide and Conquer.  Divide who and conquer what?  Us   and   Money.   It's all about the money.  Money is power.  Money is everything.  Of course there is a Chess Game being played by those Elites who wish to win the money game.  There really are two opposing views.  Socialism and Capitalism.  Capitalism allows you and I the ability to create wealth.  Socialism gives the government the ability to take what you create and give it to those who have created nothing.  

It is all about Division of the People.   Never lose sight of that my friend.  CNN  vs Fox News = Division.

  Yes, socialistic policies can take from the rich and give to the poor... But, Capitalists have become too powerful ,in shaping government policies which take from the many to give to the few....in the form of lopsided tax codes... Government contracts, and subsidies, Government bailouts for banks and insurance companies ,car companies, and many other mismanaged economic giants...as their need arises.        The wealth and therefore, the Power, of the nation is in fewer and fewer pockets and hands.   That is always extremely unhealthy for a nation.

 

[Tatetopa]

17 hours ago, bee said:

As far as I'm concerned Trump is the real deal... trying to lead and serve his country as a president should - taking a pragmatic approach and trying to help the people and the country through practical measures like with the economy / jobs / border control / law and order...

I hope you are working equally hard to get some of these benefits for your country.

First off, get rid of the globalist, neo-communist, totalitarian NHS.  Make every citizen responsible for their own health care of face the consequences.

Second, get rid of  communist globalist free trade.  Put tariffs on everything.  Let British citizens pay the increased costs if they want imports so much.

Third, have your leader tell everybody how stupid it is to defund police, but then have your son go online to say the first thing dad's gonna do when he is reelected is dismantle the FBI.

Fourth, have your leader be selective in his promises in order to save money.  Ban abortion, that is free.  Promise 2,000 miles of a wall and deliver 20.  Promise infrastructure, putting a colony on the moon and a man on Mars and don't do squat.

[+joc]

1 hour ago, lightly said:

  Yes, socialistic policies can take from the rich and give to the poor... But, Capitalists have become too powerful ,in shaping government policies which take from the many to give to the few....in the form of lopsided tax codes... Government contracts, and subsidies, Government bailouts for banks and insurance companies ,car companies, and many other mismanaged economic giants...as their need arises.        The wealth and therefore, the Power, of the nation is in fewer and fewer pockets and hands.   That is always extremely unhealthy for a nation.

 

Where did you get that information?  Media?

I am a  Capitalist...I own a small business..I have no power except in my own little world.  The Rich have always run the world..nothing new there.  Nothing new here.

Don't you see... d i v i s i o n .....the rich against the not rich.  Media sells it.  You buy it.  See how that works?  At every level...races vs races...gay vs straight...Dems vs Repups...at every facet of our society we are divided...and who does that?  Media.

[the13bats]

7 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

You are so stupid.  You can’t go google for yourself or pay attention to the news?  OK fine, here are just two of the articles out there:

 

 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/07/15/331477447/who-is-smuggling-immigrant-children-across-the-border

 

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/lawyers-say-they-can-t-find-parents-545-migrant-children-n1244066

 

 

 

The NPR one was harder to locate because of the idiotic story the MSM is flooding social media with.  The one that says that Trump says that actual coyotes are dragging children across the border.  Are they serious!  This just shows the low IQ of the MSM and the few that quaff their every word.  I think they do this on purpose to overwhelm the search engines so that you can’t find the real stories.  So you go waste your time.

 

 

 

The NBC one had a typical anti-Trump twist to it, but even after weeding through it, you begin to see that neither article comes close to the full story.  I would suggest that if you are truly interested in the facts that you go google more.  Otherwise, just chill and get use to disappointment.

 

 

 

Of course people know what " coyotes" means, they were playing on trumps baffoonery,

You jumped to post all that yet call me stupid, great irony there

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

This photo of detained child migrants is from 2019, not 2014

Which is just the kind of word games you guys excel at.  Maybe THAT photograph is of 2019.  That in no way proves the premise that Obama didn't initiate the cages.