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the13bats

The Presidential Debates

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skliss
1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

Citation please. Did Obama get anywhere near the coverage that Trump* got? The coverage that gave him a win? Another disingenuous post by a disingenuous poster.

Seriously?! Just Google Obama.  It was an 8 year love fest.

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joc
4 hours ago, lightly said:

Until, we get fed up enough to storm the castle.   Sometimes ,at that point 'negotiations' cause a 'Reset' of the social system.           

A reset of the American Capitalist Society will be the end of America.  The end of America's might.  The end of America's military...as we know it.  

What do you think will be the end result of that?  The dismantling of America.  The end of Freedom.  Totalitarianism...throughout not only the United States but the entire Free World.

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joc
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

I was born into a staunch Christian Republican Texas family and I would sure consider voting for a Republican if there was one running.

So...you aren't going to vote then...right??

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Tatetopa
14 minutes ago, joc said:

So...you aren't going to vote then...right??

I could vote 3rd party like I did last time, that has been my intention.  But Trump is decaying so fast I might panic and vote for Joe.  I might hate myself in the morning.  Fortunately, I have a couple of days to think about it.  Jo Jorgensen is still a better man than either of them.

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psyche101
19 hours ago, bee said:

 

the people who love and appreciate him would disagree with your opinion... ..

 

 

Poor misguided souls.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/08/how-people-around-the-world-see-the-u-s-and-donald-trump-in-10-charts/%3famp=1

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RavenHawk
8 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ask yourself this - if people were screaming “we love you!” at Obama or Joe, what would you say?

Yes, we ask ourselves this.  It would never happen to Joe, but it has happened with Obama.  And there is a big difference between Obama and Trump.  I think one could argue that a certain level of narcissism is shared between the two as well as a strong charisma.  But the main difference is character.  Obama’s character is bad and Trump’s is good.  That’s in the simplest terms.  Now that doesn’t mean that if you have good character that you are without flaw.  That’s not what character is. 

 

Obama had a lifetime to try to mask his character through being highly articulate and convincing himself and others that this community organizer was working for the people.  Obama has other ideas of grandeur.  Obama would speak out of both sides of his mouth.  One side would say “you didn’t build that” which doesn’t build people up; it degrades them.  And on the other side “if you see something, say something”, trying to zombie-ize his followers to point out Conservative thought to eradicate.  And then there was the big lie, “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”.  How many lost their insurance and their doctor with that one?  Under the ACA, doctors have been retiring in droves.  The rationing had begun.  Under Obama, Hilary, Biden, and Kerry (at least) were making money while serving.  All of these things are due to bad character.  These are not gaffs or fumbles, they are as intended.  It is corruption at the highest levels.

 

Trump has been losing money while serving.  He donates his salary.  He builds people up.  He’s made the economy stronger and robust.  He has gotten our allies to pull their weight.  He’s brought peace to the Middle East (or at least a shot at it) and getting us out of endless wars.  He has taken on the foreign and domestic enemies of this country.  The man has abundant energy and he pours that into making this country greater.  That is good character.

 

With Obama, you could hear the chants of “O-Ba-ma, O-Ba-ma…”  Very reminiscent of “Im-Ho-Tep”.  It was hypnotic and devilishly mindlessness.  It was uber-serious; calling the army together.  It’s not the same with Trump.  It is true affection, not mindless obedience.  The crowd is not hypnotized.  It’s more like a rock concert or tailgate party.  Everyone is there having fun.  It’s free, it’s loose.  Trump raises the people’s awareness, not as minions to do his bidding, but for individual prosperity.  He inspires the individual.  Obama is a negative force and Trump is a positive force.  Which one do you think will win out?  Trump has us on the road to success.  And success will remove division.

 

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Arbenol
23 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

With Obama, you could hear the chants of “O-Ba-ma, O-Ba-ma…”  Very reminiscent of “Im-Ho-Tep”.  It was hypnotic and devilishly mindlessness.  It was uber-serious; calling the army together.  It’s not the same with Trump.  

LOCK HER UP.

SEND THEM HOME.

BUILD THAT WALL.

U-S-A    U-S-A    U-S-A

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Autochthon1990
26 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, we ask ourselves this.  It would never happen to Joe, but it has happened with Obama.  And there is a big difference between Obama and Trump.  I think one could argue that a certain level of narcissism is shared between the two as well as a strong charisma.  But the main difference is character.  Obama’s character is bad and Trump’s is good.  That’s in the simplest terms.  Now that doesn’t mean that if you have good character that you are without flaw.  That’s not what character is. 

 

 

 

Obama had a lifetime to try to mask his character through being highly articulate and convincing himself and others that this community organizer was working for the people.  Obama has other ideas of grandeur.  Obama would speak out of both sides of his mouth.  One side would say “you didn’t build that” which doesn’t build people up; it degrades them.  And on the other side “if you see something, say something”, trying to zombie-ize his followers to point out Conservative thought to eradicate.  And then there was the big lie, “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”.  How many lost their insurance and their doctor with that one?  Under the ACA, doctors have been retiring in droves.  The rationing had begun.  Under Obama, Hilary, Biden, and Kerry (at least) were making money while serving.  All of these things are due to bad character.  These are not gaffs or fumbles, they are as intended.  It is corruption at the highest levels.

 

 

 

Trump has been losing money while serving.  He donates his salary.  He builds people up.  He’s made the economy stronger and robust.  He has gotten our allies to pull their weight.  He’s brought peace to the Middle East (or at least a shot at it) and getting us out of endless wars.  He has taken on the foreign and domestic enemies of this country.  The man has abundant energy and he pours that into making this country greater.  That is good character.

 

 

 

With Obama, you could hear the chants of “O-Ba-ma, O-Ba-ma…”  Very reminiscent of “Im-Ho-Tep”.  It was hypnotic and devilishly mindlessness.  It was uber-serious; calling the army together.  It’s not the same with Trump.  It is true affection, not mindless obedience.  The crowd is not hypnotized.  It’s more like a rock concert or tailgate party.  Everyone is there having fun.  It’s free, it’s loose.  Trump raises the people’s awareness, not as minions to do his bidding, but for individual prosperity.  He inspires the individual.  Obama is a negative force and Trump is a positive force.  Which one do you think will win out?  Trump has us on the road to success.  And success will remove division.

 

 

Dude...I don't know what you where smoking during the Obama years, but when Trump came into power was the worst time to quit it. 

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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, we ask ourselves this.  It would never happen to Joe, but it has happened with Obama.  And there is a big difference between Obama and Trump.  I think one could argue that a certain level of narcissism is shared between the two as well as a strong charisma.  But the main difference is character.  Obama’s character is bad and Trump’s is good.  That’s in the simplest terms.  Now that doesn’t mean that if you have good character that you are without flaw.  That’s not what character is. 

 

 

 

Obama had a lifetime to try to mask his character through being highly articulate and convincing himself and others that this community organizer was working for the people.  Obama has other ideas of grandeur.  Obama would speak out of both sides of his mouth.  One side would say “you didn’t build that” which doesn’t build people up; it degrades them.  And on the other side “if you see something, say something”, trying to zombie-ize his followers to point out Conservative thought to eradicate.  And then there was the big lie, “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”.  How many lost their insurance and their doctor with that one?  Under the ACA, doctors have been retiring in droves.  The rationing had begun.  Under Obama, Hilary, Biden, and Kerry (at least) were making money while serving.  All of these things are due to bad character.  These are not gaffs or fumbles, they are as intended.  It is corruption at the highest levels.

 

 

 

Trump has been losing money while serving.  He donates his salary.  He builds people up.  He’s made the economy stronger and robust.  He has gotten our allies to pull their weight.  He’s brought peace to the Middle East (or at least a shot at it) and getting us out of endless wars.  He has taken on the foreign and domestic enemies of this country.  The man has abundant energy and he pours that into making this country greater.  That is good character.

 

 

 

With Obama, you could hear the chants of “O-Ba-ma, O-Ba-ma…”  Very reminiscent of “Im-Ho-Tep”.  It was hypnotic and devilishly mindlessness.  It was uber-serious; calling the army together.  It’s not the same with Trump.  It is true affection, not mindless obedience.  The crowd is not hypnotized.  It’s more like a rock concert or tailgate party.  Everyone is there having fun.  It’s free, it’s loose.  Trump raises the people’s awareness, not as minions to do his bidding, but for individual prosperity.  He inspires the individual.  Obama is a negative force and Trump is a positive force.  Which one do you think will win out?  Trump has us on the road to success.  And success will remove division.

 

 

Clap Clap Clap that's a wonderful opinionated speech:) But we all have opinions, now facts on the other hand are not something your great at expressing;)

Its amazing how you can identify the faults of one man, and completely overlook / falsify the faults of the other. I think you are suffering from THS Trump Hypnotized Syndrome.:rolleyes:

Edited by Manwon Lender
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bee
4 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Trump has been losing money while serving.  He donates his salary.  He builds people up.  He’s made the economy stronger and robust.  He has gotten our allies to pull their weight.  He’s brought peace to the Middle East (or at least a shot at it) and getting us out of endless wars.  He has taken on the foreign and domestic enemies of this country.  The man has abundant energy and he pours that into making this country greater.  That is good character.

 

I think it's the genuine love and affection - (and the prayers).. that fuels his energy - no man is an Island and all that...

And the icing on the cake was getting better from coronavirus in days... then launching himself into a very demanding campaign schedule -

Such is the make up of his character that I think his own patriotism, determination and desire to win provides the base... for his base..
but it's a mutual exchange of love, trust and energy....
 

African-American supporters, including Terrence Williams, Angela Stanton and Diamond and Silk, pray with President Donald Trump in the Cabinet Room of the White House in Washington. 

African-American supporters, including Terrence Williams, Angela Stanton and Diamond and Silk, pray with President Donald Trump in the Cabinet Room of the White House in Washington. REUTERS/Leah Millis

 

pic

 

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the13bats

I know its slanted, fake, biased news,

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/25/media/new-hampshire-union-leader-democrat-endorsement-joe-biden/index.html
 

Quote

 

"Joe Biden may not be the president we want, but in 2020 he is the president we desperately need," the editorial continued. "He will be a president to bring people together and right the ship of state."

Despite the board's policy disagreements with Biden, it wasn't enough to endorse President Donald Trump, who is scheduled to visit New Hampshire on Sunday. The newspaper's board wrote that Trump is "not always 100% wrong, but he is 100% wrong for America."

 

Of course trump didnt let us down truning to his go to of childish insults tossed at any one who doesnt worship him.

Quote

Trump called the paper's publisher, Joseph McQuaid, a "lowlife" and "bad guy" after he lost the paper's coveted endorsement to New Jersey Governor Chris Christie in the GOP primary.

 

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Setton
On 10/25/2020 at 6:32 AM, RavenHawk said:

why should I present proof?

From the minds that brought you 'alternative facts'...

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Setton
On 10/25/2020 at 6:51 AM, bee said:

 

Trump has the kind of genuine love and affection from many millions of people in America and World Wide (including myself) that the likes of Biden can only dream of.... 

Trump also has the kind of genuine derision and disgust from millions of people in America and worldwide (including myself) that any real leader would hope to avoid.

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Setton
On 10/25/2020 at 12:15 PM, DieChecker said:

Hate... Powerful it is... of the Dark side... Yes.

Yet we have the Media cheering on the hate. Its like CNN is run by the Sith.

And yet anyone who doesn't back Trump is apparently a fifth columnist/socialist/communist/anarchist etc.

Just going to leave this here:

 

unnamed.jpg

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lightly
11 hours ago, joc said:

A reset of the American Capitalist Society will be the end of America.  The end of America's might.  The end of America's military...as we know it.  

What do you think will be the end result of that?  The dismantling of America.  The end of Freedom.  Totalitarianism...throughout not only the United States but the entire Free World.

Whoa horsey!    I'm not advocating revolution!    Just a fairer system.   The rich have gotten too powerful.  That's all I'm saying.

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joc
2 hours ago, lightly said:

 Just a fairer system.   The rich have gotten too powerful.  That's all I'm saying.

Maybe it would help if you explain how 'the rich' have gotten too powerful...and what is 'too' powerful?  Define 'too powerful'.  And what would a 'fairer' system look like?

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lightly
2 hours ago, joc said:

Maybe it would help if you explain how 'the rich' have gotten too powerful...and what is 'too' powerful?  Define 'too powerful'.  And what would a 'fairer' system look like?

Too powerful is when you have too much influence on government policies.    Most lobbyists work for the Rich.  They wine and dine our representatives and give presentations of ideas that, for the Good of the Country of course,  also make the people they represent gobs of money.  Supplying our military adventures worldwide....subsidizing the Banks, Insurance companies, Big Auto, PETROLEUM, corporate Megafarms, Megapharma,   research  on and on...... Too powerful is the power to have needed regulations Cut,  and Unneeded spending bills created...to the economic advantage of....the Rich.   It is the rich that are draining the wealth of the nation.    Even if we look at 'social programs'  ...somebody is making money supplying whatever need or product is involved.  

One example of a 'fairer' system would include an equitable tax system . ...if every dollar of Income, of individuals AND Corp orations (which possess individual personhood) .. was taxed Equally....   We would have farrrrrrrr more internal Revenue !  

Is it fair that a billionaire pay a smaller percentage of TAXes than you do ??   No, it isn't.

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joc
7 hours ago, lightly said:

Too powerful is when you have too much influence on government policies.    Most lobbyists work for the Rich.  They wine and dine our representatives and give presentations of ideas that, for the Good of the Country of course,  also make the people they represent gobs of money.  Supplying our military adventures worldwide....subsidizing the Banks, Insurance companies, Big Auto, PETROLEUM, corporate Megafarms, Megapharma,   research  on and on...... Too powerful is the power to have needed regulations Cut,  and Unneeded spending bills created...to the economic advantage of....the Rich.   It is the rich that are draining the wealth of the nation.    Even if we look at 'social programs'  ...somebody is making money supplying whatever need or product is involved.  

One example of a 'fairer' system would include an equitable tax system . ...if every dollar of Income, of individuals AND Corp orations (which possess individual personhood) .. was taxed Equally....   We would have farrrrrrrr more internal Revenue !  

Is it fair that a billionaire pay a smaller percentage of TAXes than you do ??   No, it isn't.

Too much influence on government policies?   There is nothing wrong with the system.  If you have money you can afford to pay lobbyists to ...Lobby Representatives.  That is nothing new.  It's been going on in one form or another since the beginning.  

I honestly think  you  have bought into the  Rich vs Poor divisionary tactics of the media.

A Fairer System?   Do  you have any idea what Billionaires pay in Taxes?  Which billionaires?   How much?  

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DieChecker
16 hours ago, Setton said:

And yet anyone who doesn't back Trump is apparently a fifth columnist/socialist/communist/anarchist etc.

Just going to leave this here:

 

unnamed.jpg

WOW!! Way to put words in my mouth. 

Its almost like you Hate Trump. And his followers.

Also... Nice strawman attack...

16 hours ago, Setton said:

Trump also has the kind of genuine derision and disgust from millions of people in America and worldwide (including myself) that any real leader would hope to avoid.

Oh look there... Every word except hate. Maybe you're only close then...

I'll go look if there are any other appropriate quotes...

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DieChecker
On 10/25/2020 at 4:37 PM, and then said:

IIRC, a lot of people DID act that way for Obama.  I don't recall anyone making an issue of it at the time but maybe I missed it.

 

On 10/25/2020 at 4:53 PM, Hankenhunter said:

You recall wrong, as usual. Show some proof for a change. Your recall is suspicious at best.

No. I think Hanky is right. People didn't really love Obama. Midterm, well over half the population hated him. Very much like Trump, but the GOP didn't have the stones to go as far as Pelosi has.

Quote

Trumpers are drooling slack jawed morons who'd vote for a fence post if republican was stamped on it. They love Trump because he panders to the worst in them. He allows their ids free reign.

Wow, did that come from Racheal Maddow,  or Don Lemon? 

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DieChecker
16 hours ago, lightly said:

Whoa horsey!    I'm not advocating revolution!    Just a fairer system.   The rich have gotten too powerful.  That's all I'm saying.

So, if the rich were in charge how is it that Joe Biden seems to be winning? Wouldn't the rich rig the media/social networking? Isn't the very top rich people giving the most toward the Democrats?

Bezos, Zuckerberg, Bloomberg, Gates, Buffet, Musk.... All are super rich and yet (most probably) voting Democrat. If they wanted to get richer, wouldnt they support Trump?

https://reason.com/2018/11/12/are-democrats-now-the-party-of-the-rich/

Mayhap the rich are rich due to 8 years of Obama... And they want to go back to that. 

https://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2016/6/3/11843780/democrats-wealthy-party

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bee
2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Bezos, Zuckerberg, Bloomberg, Gates, Buffet, Musk.... All are super rich and yet (most probably) voting Democrat. If they wanted to get richer, wouldnt they support Trump?

 

but....... but...... their money is good, clean money - they are good, clean (Democrat voting?) billionaires..... 
 

 

Tucker: Why Silicon Valley is doing all it can to help the Biden-Harris ticket


2:14 ------ Tucker....." mmm another oppressed billionaire...."  ^_^


 

Edited by bee
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the13bats
35 minutes ago, bee said:

 

but....... but...... their money is good, clean money - they are good, clean (Democrat voting?) billionaires..... 
 

 

Tucker: Why Silicon Valley is doing all it can to help the Biden-Harris ticket


2:14 ------ Tucker....." mmm another oppressed billionaire...."  ^_^


 

Tucker rocks jFWJo=

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ddf55d2e4b0913e6f790a3a

He said trump IS a lying BS artist thats just who he is and TC goes on to try to some way paint a picture that its a good admirable quality for a potus,

OIP.xvCpUHWlIzV96FcynemZcgFZC1?w=193&h=1

No, its not, its not even a good trait for a used car salesmen, just how stupid does TC believe trump worshippers are?

 

Edited by the13bats
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lightly
On October 26, 2020 at 10:14 PM, joc said:

Too much influence on government policies?   There is nothing wrong with the system.  If you have money you can afford to pay lobbyists to ...Lobby Representatives.  That is nothing new.  It's been going on in one form or another since the beginning.  

I honestly think  you  have bought into the  Rich vs Poor divisionary tactics of the media.

A Fairer System?   Do  you have any idea what Billionaires pay in Taxes?  Which billionaires?   How much?  

:lol:.   .. Well, maybe yor right, and everything is just fine and dandy.   I don't think so.    Your likely to think I'm nuts...but here is what I actually think.   I think the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the escapades in the Middle East during the Bush years ,we're ALL, primarily staged to make money from 'defence' contracts. .     We were told that it was absolutely imperative that S. Korea be defended from N. Korea.     We were told that it was equally crucial to our national interests that S. Vietnam be defended from N. Vietnam.   Both 'efforts' failed of course, But....the amounts of money spent/made was astronomical!  

During the Vietnam war, for example, millions of tons of shells were poured into the jungles from 'fire bases' to 'soften' the invisible enemy.  ..Remember the illegal bombings of adjoining Cambodia?    Once again, millions of tons of bombs were poured out on the jungles ,even though everyone involved already knew a withdrawal from the war was eminent.

To make a long story short...look at the amounts of money spent/made,on jets,armaments,ammo,fuel,and EVERYTHING else, to supply and carry out all of the Mid East escapades. Look alone at the amounts of PETROLEUM bought and sold.  Remember who was in charge?  G.W. Bush...Dick Cheney...Donald Rumsfeld..   Who just happened to be Heavily invested in PETROLEUM.

They must have made BILLIONS.... most of it probably stashed away in 'offshore' accounts.     Ok, that's just a small taste of the sorts of 'policy' influence I'm talking about.    

Even the war in Afghanistan...which of course had to be waged ,in large part, to crush the opium/heroin trade... Accomplished what?  Other than a much increased and flourishing opium/heroin trade.    ???

Any groups which formed to defend their lands from the Invasions were labeled TERRORISTS.    Ok, I'll stop now..I told you you'd think I was nuts.  :P  I'm perfectly serious however.

Strength through Peace !  :lol:

 

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RoofGardener
42 minutes ago, lightly said:

:lol:.   .. Well, maybe yor right, and everything is just fine and dandy.   I don't think so.    Your likely to think I'm nuts...but here is what I actually think.   I think the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the escapades in the Middle East during the Bush years ,we're ALL, primarily staged to make money from 'defence' contracts. .     We were told that it was absolutely imperative that S. Korea be defended from N. Korea.     We were told that it was equally crucial to our national interests that S. Vietnam be defended from N. Vietnam.   Both 'efforts' failed of course, But....the amounts of money spent/made was astronomical!  ....

Umm.. the 'effort' to protect South Korea from North Korea failed ???

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