Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
zep73

Superdeterminism

61 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

zep73

Superdeterminism is currently the best solution, that most scientists have, when they want to explain quantum mechanical phenomena.
How can two entangled particles affect each other instantly, no matter how far the distance between them is? How can observation turn waves into particles? Their solution is: It was always meant to be. Every event there ever was, is and will be, is pre-determined since the Big Bang. We are all already dead and in our graves. Our great-great-great-great-grandchildren already lived their lives. The sun already blew up and destroyed the Earth. The universe is already 'dead' - if it can 'die'. You reading this, was always going to happen. You rejecting/accepting this, also. Free will is a fantasy. Making mistakes is an illusion. Crime is not a choice, and punishment is a pointless joke. Life is like the movie on a DVD disc, where there is no Pause button, or F.fwd or Rwd button. No matter what you (think you) decide and do, it was always gonna be like that.
The 'block universe' in Einstein's theory of relativity can be interpreted to support this.

There is also another explanation*, one that is more logical, coherent and causal. An explanation that, however, lacks acceptable evidence, makes us feel insignificant and hurts our ego.
But what is worst? Losing our free will or feeling insignificant? What would you choose? Oh wait... you already chose. Or did you?

The only consolation is that someone, someday, might concoct a third explanation, that will be less unsettling. But I don't like the odds of that. Or you can stick your head in the bush, like many scientists do, and just say there is no explanation. It just is how it is.
 

Arvin Ash explains Einstein's block universe:

[ Duration 8:08 ]


* This thread is about superdeterminism, so I decided (or did I?) to not include the alternative explanation, simulated reality, which is a whole different discussion.

Edited by zep73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

Well that's boring. So who or what set it up? 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spartan max2
2 minutes ago, zep73 said:

The only consolation is that someone, someday, might concoct a third explanation, that will be less unsettling. But I don't like the odds of that. Or you can stick your head in the bush, like many scientists do, and just say there is no explanation. It just is how it is.

I would argue it's more saying there is no explanation right now. There are plenty of things we didn't understand in the past that we do now.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

I would argue it's more saying there is no explanation right now. There are plenty of things we didn't understand in the past that we do now.

I think it's more telling that a semi-intelligent primate thinks it actually knows anything for absolute certain. I won't hold my breath on this.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Well that's boring. So who or what set it up? 

I think it should be seen as the big bang spitting out a complete universe, including time, start to finish. Like a woman giving birth to a man that is both an infant, a teenager, an adult and an old man, simultaneously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
Just now, zep73 said:

I think it should be seen as the big bang spitting out a complete universe, including time, start to finish. Like a woman giving birth to a man that is both an infant, a teenager, an adult and an old man, simultaneously.

That's pretty stupid if you think about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

That's pretty stupid if you think about it. 

No argument there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

Some part of me thinks this is just a form of hindsight fallacy, brought on by our brains desire for patterns. So we fabricate them to make sense of things. We're probably surrounded by chaos and can't see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73

I added a video to the OP.

Edited by zep73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

So exactly what do you wish to get from this thread? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
Just now, XenoFish said:

So exactly what do you wish to get from this thread? 

To discuss the proposed illusion of past-present-future, that scientific evidence is strongly pointing towards.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
Just now, zep73 said:

To discuss the proposed illusion of past-present-future, that scientific evidence is strongly pointing towards.

If there is no past, present, nor future then how can anything be predetermined? If there is only the perpetual now, nothing had existed, neither shall anything exist. We are the center point of the hourglass of our lives. No future, no past.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If there is no past, present, nor future then how can anything be predetermined? If there is only the perpetual now, nothing had existed, neither shall anything exist. We are the center point of the hourglass of our lives. No future, no past.

Check out the video in the OP. It's only 8 minutes. Then you'll know what I mean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
2 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Check out the video in the OP. It's only 8 minutes. Then you'll know what I mean.

I might, might not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
papageorge1

Well I'll offer my Advaita (non-dual=God and creation are not-two) perspective. In this philosophy only Brahman/God/Consciousness is Real and creation is an illusion that Brahman creates. (We are ultimately Brahman.) Rays of Brahman identify with all the myriad of souls in the universe. Maya (illusion) temporarily makes the individual souls unaware that they are Brahman/God in essence. Maya makes us think the play is the ultimate reality.

Ultimately creation can be likened to a play drama of God/Brahman/Consciousness. Like a Shakespearean play the events are fixed for us. But the play was not fixed when Shakespeare was formulating the play.

The universe is analogously a play/drama of Brahman. Brahman has free will over the play/drama. We are the actors in the play. Our eternal essence is Brahman/Consciousness. Maya (illusion) makes the rays of Brahman/Consciousness experience under the illusion of separateness and free will (as in the case of humans).

So ultimately as Brahman we have complete free will. When we are incarnated Maya (illusion) makes us experience as individuals with free will. 

Goal of life: For the finite self To Brahman-Realize

Why does Braham/God do all this? The answer is analogous to why do humans create play/drama/art? The answer is to experience things through being creative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

I watched the video. Just another reason to hate my life. Doesn't matter, I apparently have zero choice in the matter. I'm beginning to hate science almost as much as I do religion. But this post was predetermined so I am not responsible for it.

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

@zep73 I wasn't making a joke. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

@zep73 I wasn't making a joke. 

Still funny, mate.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
1 minute ago, zep73 said:

Still funny, mate.

To you I supposed. Not so much for me. Maybe I'm just a stupid fool who needs to feel like I have a choice in any matter. With both religion and science I am denied that. So screw me for wanting to feel human. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cookie Monster
2 hours ago, zep73 said:

Superdeterminism is currently the best solution, that most scientists have, when they want to explain quantum mechanical phenomena.
How can two entangled particles affect each other instantly, no matter how far the distance between them is? How can observation turn waves into particles? Their solution is: It was always meant to be. Every event there ever was, is and will be, is pre-determined since the Big Bang. We are all already dead and in our graves. Our great-great-great-great-grandchildren already lived their lives. The sun already blew up and destroyed the Earth. The universe is already 'dead' - if it can 'die'. You reading this, was always going to happen. You rejecting/accepting this, also. Free will is a fantasy. Making mistakes is an illusion. Crime is not a choice, and punishment is a pointless joke. Life is like the movie on a DVD disc, where there is no Pause button, or F.fwd or Rwd button. No matter what you (think you) decide and do, it was always gonna be like that.
The 'block universe' in Einstein's theory of relativity can be interpreted to support this.

There is also another explanation*, one that is more logical, coherent and causal. An explanation that, however, lacks acceptable evidence, makes us feel insignificant and hurts our ego.
But what is worst? Losing our free will or feeling insignificant? What would you choose? Oh wait... you already chose. Or did you?

The only consolation is that someone, someday, might concoct a third explanation, that will be less unsettling. But I don't like the odds of that. Or you can stick your head in the bush, like many scientists do, and just say there is no explanation. It just is how it is.
 

Arvin Ash explains Einstein's block universe:

[ Duration 8:08 ]


* This thread is about superdeterminism, so I decided (or did I?) to not include the alternative explanation, simulated reality, which is a whole different discussion.

I dont know where that guys views have come from but he is wrong.

The quantum nature of atomic particles is indeterminism not determinism. They work off probabilities not certainties. Predeterminism doesnt exist.

Edited by Cookie Monster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

To you I supposed. Not so much for me. Maybe I'm just a stupid fool who needs to feel like I have a choice in any matter. With both religion and science I am denied that. So screw me for wanting to feel human. 

Religion might be settled, but science isn't. It will always be a matter of interpreting the evidence. Or to wait for a better interpretation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
Just now, zep73 said:

Religion might be settled, but science isn't. It will always be a matter of interpreting the evidence. Or to wait for a better interpretation.

You don't have a choice in the matter. It's all predetermined. All you are is an npc in the cosmic simulation. Just like the rest of us. Which makes conscious awareness even more tragic. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish

If you really want to take this to a dark place. How about we are all dead and this illusion of life is just what is flashing before our eyes as our bodies shut down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zep73
2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I dont know where that guys views have come from but he is wrong.

Are you referring to Arvin Ash? He's talking about relativity, not QM.

4 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The quantum nature of atomic particles is indeterminism not determinism. They work off probabilities not certainties. Predeterminism doesnt exist.

That is a different discussion. If you can't distinguish between an ontology and quantum theory, you should avoid discussing them.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
L.A.T.1961

One option instead of Superdeterminism is the idea of backwards causality. The concept allows the future to influence now. 

As far as I can see this would allow free will?

https://www.facebook.com/CloserToTruthTV/videos/is-backwards-causality-possible/2094935784135562/

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.