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Eldorado

Azerbaijan and Armenia at war

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Eldorado

Clashes have begun between Armenian and Azerbaijani forces over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region, with at least one Azerbaijani helicopter shot down.

Armenia said Azerbaijan had launched an air and artillery attack. It later declared martial law and total military mobilisation.

Azerbaijan said it was responding to shelling along the whole front. Both sides have reported civilian deaths.

Full report at the BBC: Link

Nagorno-Karabakh conflict: Link

Edited by Eldorado
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ThereWeAreThen

Saw this when I woke up this morning. Not good at all. Yet again, our species are fighting over land.

From what I can tell, the people who live in the territory that Armenia occupies, want to be part of Armenia. Why don't Azerbaijan just let them have it then? I could be wrong though.

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DarkHunter

The situation is getting worse between both countries as both have put their countries under martial law, both declared being in a state of war, and have started full mobilization.  Armenia is calling up all reserves under the age of 55 and calling for more military recruitment and saying they are in an all out war and also fighting the Turkish military.

Losses on both sides are not clear, Armenia keeps stating amount of equipment they have destroyed but it seems highly inflated.  Does seem that Azerbaijan has captured a few villages in the break away region.

The real question is what will Russia do.  Armenia is in CSTO while Azerbaijan is not, CSTO is essentially the Russian version of NATO.  The fighting currently isnt in Armenia but in the break away region of Azerbaijan which is still recognized as belonging to Azerbaijan.  If Russia intervenes military it would almost certainly damage relations with Turkey as they back Azerbaijan fully.  

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Mr.United_Nations
21 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Saw this when I woke up this morning. Not good at all. Yet again, our species are fighting over land.

From what I can tell, the people who live in the territory that Armenia occupies, want to be part of Armenia. Why don't Azerbaijan just let them have it then? I could be wrong though.

Azerbijan has land that Aremnua won't recognise 

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Great Old Man

War has begun. Why people don't know, War hurts everyone?

We are live under the simulation. 

War, puppet of simulation.

 

 

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odas
On 9/27/2020 at 7:01 AM, ThereWeAreThen said:

Saw this when I woke up this morning. Not good at all. Yet again, our species are fighting over land.

From what I can tell, the people who live in the territory that Armenia occupies, want to be part of Armenia. Why don't Azerbaijan just let them have it then? I could be wrong though.

Then we would have to draw new borders everywhere in the world.

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DarkHunter

Apparently Turkey has been transporting fighters from Syria to Azerbaijan to fight against Armenia and suspicious activity is occuring on the Iranian Azerbaijan border, by suspicious I mean Iran seems to be sending Azerbaijan various military vehicles and weapon systems.  There have been rumors of IRGC involvement with the current fighting but not yet confirmed

Edited by DarkHunter
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TrumanB

The real trouble here is Turkey. They are supporting Azerbaijan. Erdogan is a threat to peace, I hope that Russia can handle him.

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DarkHunter

The conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan seems to be getting worse.  It's hard to tell what information is accurate and what isnt as both Armenia and Azerbaijan are spreading large amounts of misinformation but it has been confirmed the fighting has expanded beyond the break away region of Nagorno-Karabakh.  

So far Azerbaijan is claiming Armenian artillery have targeted Dashkesan, which is in uncontested Azerbaijan territory, and now Azerbaijan is attacking targets within Armenia, until now Azerbaijan has only attacked Armenian units in Nagorno-Karabakh.  Azerbaijan is claiming they destroyed an Armenian BM-27 but that's unconfirmed but what is confirmed is that an Azerbaijan drone destroyed a bus in Vardenis, Armenia but it's not clear if it was a civilian bus or a bus transporting Armenian soldiers.

As for other related news patriotic fervor is apparently at an all time high in Azerbaijan, reports from civilians that Azerbaijani businesses and homes are covered in the Azerbaijan flag.  As for Armenia they have passed a law forbidding any males between the ages of 18 and 55 from leaving Armenia unless given permission from the military.

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DarkHunter

Fighting is definitely getting worse.  It has been confirmed a Turkish F-16 has shot down an Armenian Su-25, it is believed the pilot has been killed.  Russia has summoned the ambassador from Azerbaijan and Armenia.  

Seems like this wont be remaining between just between Azerbaijan and Armenia for much longer.  

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third_eye

Idiots... They dodged covid19 and they start a war... 

~

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DarkHunter

The downing of a Su-25 by an F-16 might not be true.  The only ones claiming a Su-25 was downed have been the Armenians and they are refusing to show any proof of the downing, only proof is a statement from the Armenian MoD saying it happened.  Azerbaijan is denying any Armenian planes have been shot down.  There is suspicion Armenia is faking their Su-25 being shot down in an attempt to draw Russia into the conflict.

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Eldorado

The Su-25 incident...

"Armenia says its fighter jet 'shot down by Turkey'"

Report at the BBC: Link

Latest at Reuters: "Azerbaijan and Armenia reject peace talks as Karabakh conflict zone widens" Link

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ThereWeAreThen
On 9/28/2020 at 9:52 PM, odas said:

Then we would have to draw new borders everywhere in the world.

And? Borders are easy to draw, implementing them takes time yes. I'm all for self determination.

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odas
7 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

And? Borders are easy to draw, implementing them takes time yes. I'm all for self determination.

Ever been in a War? Got kids? Wife? Parents?

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and then
5 hours ago, odas said:

Ever been in a War? Got kids? Wife? Parents?

Why do you think that matters?  Are only those who experience war first hand allowed to have geopolitical opinions?

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DarkHunter

Figured it would be interesting to say how each side in this conflict is reporting how it is going, largely to show how utterly insane and massively inaccurate both countries are reporting on the war.

First Azerbaijan. They are claiming 2,300 enemy combatants killed or wounded, 130 tanks and armored vehicles destroyed, 200 artillery pieces (which includes regular artillery, rocket launchers, and mortars), 25 anti air systems destroyed including an S-300, 50 anti-tank vehicles destroyed, and 55 vehicles destroyed and I will be honest I have no idea what they are counting in this category. 

Why those figures are insane.  Armenia only has about 867 to 887 armored vehicles and tanks combined (119 to 139 tanks and 748 armored vehicles), 256 total artillery pieces, and for anti-air couldnt find a good number.  If Azerbaijan is correct Armenia should essentially have no artillery left and lost approximately a quarter of its armored vehicles in a few days of fighting.  

Not to be outdone Armenia is claiming to have destroyed 137 tanks and armored vehicles, 72 aerial vehicles (drones), 7 helicopters, and a plane.  So in the same amount of time Armenia is essentially saying they destroyed 5% of Azerbaijan's armored vehicles and about 10% of its helicopters.  They did shoot down an Azerbaijan plane but it was an Antonov An-2, essentially a modern propeller driven biplane.  

Azerbaijan has been showing quite a few videos of them destroying Armenian military equipment but no where near the amount they report and the same goes for Armenia and its reports on destroyed Azerbaijani military equipment.

Ultimately though this conflict is showing no signs of ending any time soon.  This particular conflict has been going on for approximately 100 years and only stopping temporarily when the Russian army during the USSR era incorporated both into the USSR and forced them to stop fighting.  Both have a long list of grievances and no interests in having peace talks.

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odas
18 hours ago, and then said:

Why do you think that matters?  Are only those who experience war first hand allowed to have geopolitical opinions?

? Everyone is entiteld to their opinion. Redrawing borders comes usually with a high price. Human lifes. And yes, out of own experience I know that first hand. People without that experience can have their opinion but the input is not valid because of the lack of experience.

The question I asked about kids, parents, spouse is very valid. One thing is to send your troops overseas, the other thing is when the war is in your backyard. I know the difference, you don't.

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DarkHunter

On the geopolitical front stuff is happening.  First a minor correction, the Iranian military equipment is not going to Azerbaijan but instead Armenia.  

Recently Iran has stated it will not tolerate instability on its northern border.  From what I have heard online it seems Iran is getting a bit concerned about the sizable Azerbaijani population in northern Iran getting separatist ideas and is fearing another insurgency like they are facing with the Kurds.  Also quite a few protests in various northern Iranian cities, cities with high Azerbaijani populations, demanding the border with Armenia be closed.

Armenia has recalled their ambassador to Israel over Israel continuing to supply Azerbaijan with drones.  Seems these Israeli made drones, especially the suicide drones, have done significant material damage to the Armenian army.  On a side note the Israeli suicide drone sounds incredibly like a Stuka dive bomber while doing its attack.

Link to video of said suicide drone in use.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IntelDoge/status/1311727741063114752

Turkey is continuing to give support to Azerbaijan, even suggesting they would get involved directly if asked by Azerbaijan.  Also Turkey is continuing to send in foreign fighters from Syria to Azerbaijan to fight with seemingly multiple planes carrying troops landing daily.

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ThereWeAreThen
21 hours ago, odas said:

? Everyone is entiteld to their opinion. Redrawing borders comes usually with a high price. Human lifes. And yes, out of own experience I know that first hand. People without that experience can have their opinion but the input is not valid because of the lack of experience.

The question I asked about kids, parents, spouse is very valid. One thing is to send your troops overseas, the other thing is when the war is in your backyard. I know the difference, you don't.

I dont wan't war. My argument is, why can't we just let the people have it without the use of war? IF the people of a land want to go independent, anywhere in the world, in my humble opinion they should be allowed.

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odas
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

I dont wan't war. My argument is, why can't we just let the people have it without the use of war? IF the people of a land want to go independent, anywhere in the world, in my humble opinion they should be allowed.

I understand and appologise if I came over as a duffus. Unfortunately this is not how it works. What if let's say in UK the majority of Asians e.g. living on the London area would do that? What about the french, germans, italians in Switzerland? What about the balkan dynamite? Israel/Palestine? As I said every redrawing of borders will most certainly end in slaughter. History proves it.

Edited by odas

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Mr.United_Nations

There was drones near the Armenian capital last night, I believe several were shot down

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DarkHunter
1 hour ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

There was drones near the Armenian capital last night, I believe several were shot down

If I remember correctly it was 4 recon drones and for whatever reason Armenia used one of their S-300 systems to bring them down.

The problem is the Armenian capital is decently far from the fighting and any action against the Armenian capital would almost certainly get CSTO involved.  Some speculation online that the drones were a false flag operation done by Armenia to try and bring Russia into the conflict as there does seem to be significant losses on the Armenian side.

Since I dont feel like making two posts just going to throw in current state of the war.

Azerbaijan has started attacking the capital of the break away region directly, seems to of been multiple large MLRS attacks already.  The leader of the breakaway region has said the capital of the breakaway region will not be evacuated but also admitted multiple villages near the frontline have already been evacuated.  

Armenia is now going to go to the CSTO with what they say is evidence of Azerbaijani aggression against Armenia, presumably to call the collective defense of CSTO and bring Russia into the conflict.  

Both Armenia and Azerbaijan are still claiming they are winning and inflicting heavy losses on the other but it seems the videos showing Armenian successes have decreased significantly while most new videos seem to be of Azerbaijan destroying Armenian equipment.

Turkey still supporting Azerbaijan and flying in more mercenaries from Syria.  If Russia gets involved Turkey will almost certainly step in.  

The divide on who supports who keeps on growing.  Currently France and Greece have come out as backing Armenia, a small number of Armenians in Greece and a few Greeks have gone to fight for Armenia while various greek hackers keep attacking Azerbaijan.  Hungary and Ukraine have come out as backing Azerbaijan.  Israel is continuing to sell weapons to Azerbaijan while Iran seems to of tried to supply Armenia with some weapons but it's not clear if that is continuing or not.  Russia continues to call for both sides to stop hostilities and return to negotiations.  America is essentially doing the same as seems like America doesnt want involved in this at all.

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ThereWeAreThen
18 hours ago, odas said:

I understand and appologise if I came over as a duffus. Unfortunately this is not how it works. What if let's say in UK the majority of Asians e.g. living on the London area would do that? What about the french, germans, italians in Switzerland? What about the balkan dynamite? Israel/Palestine? As I said every redrawing of borders will most certainly end in slaughter. History proves it.

Not doubting they do. Cause as a species we still bicker over anything. It's sad really, but yea you're right. I'm trying to think of a rewritten border which was solved peacefully.

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odas
8 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Not doubting they do. Cause as a species we still bicker over anything. It's sad really, but yea you're right. I'm trying to think of a rewritten border which was solved peacefully.

Czech and Slovakia, but the borders were ageold and they stuck to them ones they seperated.

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