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Still Waters

Teacher loses job after tattoos 'scare child'

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Still Waters

A schoolteacher whose body, face and tongue are covered in tattoos and who has had the whites of his eyes surgically turned black said he was prevented from teaching at a French kindergarten after a parent complained he scared their child.

But the teacher, Sylvain Helaine, 35, still teaches children from the age of six up, and said that, after an initial shock when they see him for the first time, his pupils see past his appearance.

"All of my students and their parents were always cool with me because basically they knew me," said Helaine, who estimated he has spent around 460 hours under the tattooists' needle.

"It's only when people see me from far away that they can assume the worst."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/28/europe/sylvain-helaine-tattoo-teaching-job-scli-intl/index.html?

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/french-primary-school-teacher-whose-face-is-covered-in-tattoos-leaves-young-child-with-nightmares-c-1349721

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itsnotoutthere

 

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/french-primary-school-teacher-whose-face-is-covered-in-tattoos-leaves-young-child-with-nightmares-c-1349721

And he was surprised !!!  :hmm:

Edited by Still Waters
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seanjo

I wouldn't trust someone who had done that to themselves with kids.

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itsnotoutthere

17zoxk.jpg.04253eb0324b7a65d117a02356081a30.jpg

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Orphalesion
2 hours ago, seanjo said:

I wouldn't trust someone who had done that to themselves with kids.

Why not? What about this makes him a bad person or of questionable morality? What about his tattoos would make him a danger to children?
And while I personally wouldn't want to get tattoos like that (or any) I think teaching children not to judge by appearances is a good idea in general.

The only thing I'd object to would be the eyeball tattoos since those are dangerous to get.

Edited by Orphalesion

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OverSword
47 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Why not? What about this makes him a bad person or of questionable morality? What about his tattoos would make him a danger to children?
And while I personally wouldn't want to get tattoos like that (or any) I think teaching children not to judge by appearances is a good idea in general.

The only thing I'd object to would be the eyeball tattoos since those are dangerous to get.

I don't agree.  You should teach children to judge people by their appearance and by many other things.  We constantly judge people based on appearance including whether or not they are a threat.  Sure this guy is probably not a threat to the children but I wouldn't want to normalize that assessment for a five year old.  Take a good look.  Do you want your five year old child not to be cautions of a people that looked like that?

You normalize that for them and they won't really be able to distinguish between those decorative tats and these skin head convict tats.  Do you want your five year old to think this guy is okay too?

Edited by Saru
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Orphalesion
25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I don't agree.  You should teach children to judge people by their appearance and by many other things.  We constantly judge people based on appearance including whether or not they are a threat.  Sure this guy is probably not a threat to the children but I wouldn't want to normalize that assessment for a five year old.  Take a good look.  Do you want your five year old child not to be cautions of a people that looked like that?

And a lot of child molesters, murderers, rapists etc. look like the nicest and cleanest of people out there. So it's not as easy as you paint it here.

And yeah we *totally* should teach children to judge by appearances; let's teach them to fear and ostracize the physically unattractive, handicapped, people with deformities or scars... :rolleyes:
I know those things are not the same, but well it starts somewhere, where do we draw the line?

Edited by Orphalesion

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OverSword
10 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

And a lot of child molesters, murderers, rapists etc. look like the nicest and cleanest of people out there. So it's not as easy as you paint it here.

Yes.  You should teach them to trust hardly anyone.  They're five.  They don't have good judgement and tend to either trust anyone or to be easily talked into it.

 

10 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

And yeah we *totally* should teach children to judge by appearances; let's teach them to fear and ostracize the physically unattractive, handicapped, people with deformities or scars... :rolleyes:
I know those things are not the same, but well it starts somewhere, where do we draw the line?

You don't have to, humans are hardwired to shun the unattractive, there is plenty of literature about it.  There are evolutionary reasons for this. 

Edited by OverSword
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Orphalesion
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

 

You don't have to, humans are hardwired to shun the unattractive, there is plenty of literature about it.  There are evolutionary reasons for this. 

We should judge them *not* to, because these days those reasons don't apply anymore. We aren't a species in danger of extinction anymore.

 

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yes.  You should teach them to trust hardly anyone.  They're five.  They don't have good judgement and tend to either trust anyone or to be easily talked into it.

Yes, that's why they should be taught whom to trust on a case-by-case basis by their parents, not judge groups of people by superficial elements.

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OverSword
8 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

We should judge them *not* to, because these days those reasons don't apply anymore. We aren't a species in danger of extinction anymore.

Yes, as they get older and are capable of good decisions and or defending themselves (running away, fighting back)  I know as a percentage children snatched by strangers is small but still happens.  Plan for the worst.

8 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Yes, that's why they should be taught whom to trust on a case-by-case basis by their parents, not judge groups of people by superficial elements.

As they get older.  When they are five just people they know.  Maybe including this guy at some point but here is the bottom line.  You can augment your body any way you want. Do whatever you like that harms nobody else.  But there are going to be societal consequences.  If you may not like the consequences of tattooing your eyes black or covering your entire face with tats then maybe don't do it.  I guarantee you there will be nobody that does that to themselves working as a salesman where I work.   

Edited by OverSword

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Orphalesion
Just now, OverSword said:

 

As they get older.  When they are five just people they know.  Maybe including this guy at some point but here is the bottom line.  You can augment your body any way you want. Do whatever you like that harms nobody else.  But there are going to be societal consequences.  If you may not like the consequences of tattooing your eyes black or covering your entire face then maybe don't do it.  I guarantee you there will be nobody that does that to themselves working as a salesman where I work.   

I agree with you here, to an extend. Note that I haven't defended the guy directly and I do actually think that it was pretty stupid of him to get that many tattoos if he's working in a job were appearance matters.
And I'm not gonna lie and pretend I would not be a bit taken aback if he was teaching my kid, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get him fired either. If my child was scared of him, I'd tell them that *this* specific teacher is not dangerous because he's a teacher and they can trust him.
Doesn't mean I would want my children to cuddle up to some random tattooed guy on the street.

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seanjo
1 hour ago, Orphalesion said:

Why not? What about this makes him a bad person or of questionable morality? What about his tattoos would make him a danger to children?
And while I personally wouldn't want to get tattoos like that (or any) I think teaching children not to judge by appearances is a good idea in general.

The only thing I'd object to would be the eyeball tattoos since those are dangerous to get.

Because there is something deeply wrong with the thought process that goes " here's a good idea, I'm going to mutilate myself permanently"...

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keithisco
34 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I agree with you here, to an extend. Note that I haven't defended the guy directly and I do actually think that it was pretty stupid of him to get that many tattoos if he's working in a job were appearance matters.
And I'm not gonna lie and pretend I would not be a bit taken aback if he was teaching my kid, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get him fired either. If my child was scared of him, I'd tell them that *this* specific teacher is not dangerous because he's a teacher and they can trust him.
Doesn't mean I would want my children to cuddle up to some random tattooed guy on the street.

And that is the mistake that you make, on behalf of your children. A teacher is NOT automatically a good person. 

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Orphalesion
4 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Because there is something deeply wrong with the thought process that goes " here's a good idea, I'm going to mutilate myself permanently"...

I mean I agree I'm against self-mutilation, especially the tattooing the eyeball tattooing since that can blind you even if the tattoo artist knows what they are doing.
For the other points see my conversation with OverSword.



@keithiscoI wasn't saying that. But there's no way to look inside a teacher and know whether they might be dangerous, and that not a reason to tell a child that they can't trust their teacher. And honestly in a weird way I'd actually trust this guy, because I'd have the impression that someone who looks like that in a teaching job must be extremely trustworthy/gifted to even keep their job.

Just now, keithisco said:

And that is the mistake that you make, on behalf of your children. A teacher is NOT automatically a good person. 

Edited by Orphalesion

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keithisco
29 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:



@keithiscoI wasn't saying that. But there's no way to look inside a teacher and know whether they might be dangerous, and that not a reason to tell a child that they can't trust their teacher. And honestly in a weird way I'd actually trust this guy, because I'd have the impression that someone who looks like that in a teaching job must be extremely trustworthy/gifted to even keep their job.

Why??? Your argument makes no sense on any level... doyou even know how difficult it is to sack someone in France?

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