Trump and Melania have coronavirus

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 11/3/2020 at 12:28 AM, Desertrat56 said:

Like the flu and "common cold" there is no herd immunity for Covid 19 or any other corona virus because they mutate constantly.  I suspect you were expecting someone to say "we don't have a vaccine yet."  That is only part of the difference.

The biggest challenge to Herd Immunity is that 70% of the population would need to have been infected for it to take place. The US has a population around 350 million, so it is very easy to see we are no where near the point where Herd Immunity could take effect. Even with a Vaccine reaching Herd immunity may be impossible to reach, because the top Immunologists in the world can't  even say how long a Vaccine will be effective because it appears that the Antibodies produced are short lived. So it could taken two vaccines or more per year to give you a decent chance at Immunity. 

None of the current Vaccines being developed will give you 100% immunity, according Again to the immunologists who are saying that between 60 to 70 percent immunity is the best we can hope from a vaccine.

So the facts are simply COVID19 is here to stay, and the old normal may never return or it could take many years to return and this sad but very true.

[+Desertrat56]

16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The biggest challenge to Herd Immunity is that 70% of the population would need to have been infected for it to take place. The US has a population around 350 million, so it is very easy to see we are no where near the point where Herd Immunity could take effect. Even with a Vaccine reaching Herd immunity may be impossible to reach, because the top Immunologists in the world can't  even say how long a Vaccine will be effective because it appears that the Antibodies produced are short lived. So it could taken two vaccines or more per year to give you a decent chance at Immunity. 

None of the current Vaccines being developed will give you 100% immunity, according Again to the immunologists who are saying that between 60 to 70 percent immunity is the best we can hope from a vaccine.

So the facts are simply COVID19 is here to stay, and the old normal may never return or it could take many years to return and this sad but very true.

You just answered your own Herd Immunity challenge.  It doesn't matter if 70% or more of the population gets it because the antibodies do not stay in the system like they do (for most people) for chicken pox, measles, polio etc.  That is why we have a NEW flu vaccine Every Year.  Because we don't keep the flu or other corona virus antibodies in our system, AND those mutate very fast.   No vaccine provides 100% immunity.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

You just answered your own Herd Immunity challenge.  It doesn't matter if 70% or more of the population gets it because the antibodies do not stay in the system like they do (for most people) for chicken pox, measles, polio etc.  That is why we have a NEW flu vaccine Every Year.  Because we don't keep the flu or other corona virus antibodies in our system, AND those mutate very fast.   No vaccine provides 100% immunity.  

Here is some information you may be interested in concerning COVID19 Vaccines. There is much more information in the link below, this information is coming from one of the leading organizations on this and other Viruses worldwide. Your right Herd Immunity will never work because even with a Vaccine we will never reach 70%+ of the population with immunity to make it happen.

A first generation of COVID-19 vaccines is expected to gain approval as soon as the end of 2020 or early 2021. A popular assumption is that these vaccines will provide population immunity that can reduce transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and lead to a resumption of pre-COVID-19 “normalcy”. Given an initial reproduction number of around 2·2, which has since been revised to as high as about 4, and taking into account overdispersion of infections, perhaps about 25–50% of the population would have to be immune to the virus to achieve suppression of community transmission. 

 

Multiple COVID-19 vaccines are currently in phase 3 trials with efficacy assessed as prevention of virologically confirmed disease. WHO recommends that successful vaccines should show disease risk reduction of at least 50%, with 95% CI that true vaccine efficacy exceeds 30%. However, the impact of these COVID-19 vaccines on infection and thus transmission is not being assessed. Even if vaccines were able to confer protection from disease, they might not reduce transmission similarly.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31976-0/fulltext

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[SHaYap]

What dreadfully little that is actually what is known so far... 

Quote

www.health.harvard.edu › coronavi...

Coronavirus Resource Center - Harvard Health

6 days ago — The rapid spread of the virus that causes COVID-19 ... We know that wearing masks can help prevent the spread of  ...

 

www.medicalnewstoday.com › articles

Novel coronavirus: What we know so far - Medical News Today

The COVID-19 pandemic has rocked communities around the world. Here, we answer questions about SARS-CoV-2 transmission, ...

 

www.pharmaceutical-journal.com › ...

Everything you should know about the coronavirus outbreak | Feature ...

23 Oct 2020 — What should I do if a patient thinks they have COVID-19? What can I do to protect myself and my staff? What about ' business ...

 

www.statnews.com

Seven months later, what we know — and don't know — about Covid ...

17 Aug 2020 — Here are some of the things we have learned about Covid-19, and some of the pressing questions that we still need ...

~

 

[bmk1245]

4 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Hmm - you're a fortune teller?  Lots of other governments and countries have done a MUCH better job than Trump, and his carefully selected morons that have no relevant experience... How's things in Lithuania?  Hereabouts, no or very few cases in all states across Australia - things are returning to a cautious normal.

Your 'references' are not to those in power who can implement a nationwide plan, just handwaves about what you think will happen, and what state governors have tried to do without a shred of federal support.

Anyhoo, I suspect we'll find out how the Dem's apply a different approach after tomorrow....  We'll discuss later.

Glad you asked: two months of very strict quarantine (mid March till mid May), then month of bit less strict measures (mid June), then bit lesser restrictions since mid June, and now we have waaay more cases per day. Add to that 0.3% GDP drop in first quarter, and 5.5% drop in second quarter, plus unemployment (adjusted to seasonal variations) steadily rose from 6.6% in March to 9.8% in September.

So, should we'd stayed closed until complete economy collapse and unemployment of 20% or higher?

And yeah, by first (and consequential) steps you can extrapolate outcome...

[ChrLzs]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

Glad you asked: two months of very strict quarantine (mid March till mid May), then month of bit less strict measures (mid June), then bit lesser restrictions since mid June, and now we have waaay more cases per day. Add to that 0.3% GDP drop in first quarter, and 5.5% drop in second quarter, plus unemployment (adjusted to seasonal variations) steadily rose from 6.6% in March to 9.8% in September.

Sorry to hear that.

Quote

So, should we'd stayed closed until complete economy collapse and unemployment of 20% or higher?

Would you like me to open my mouth wider so you can stuff more words in there, and then argue with them?  I simply asked how you were going, so take your attitude and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

Quote

And yeah, by first (and consequential) steps you can extrapolate outcome...

It's actually very complex and different countries have different issues that need to be understood and dealt with. That's the sort of stuff I'd expect a good government to do (and have been planning for).

 

That's what we did in Australia.  Bye.

Edited November 4, 2020 by ChrLzs

[aztek]

the title is outdated, they recovered, and do not have it anymore,  so the title should say HAD

[ChrLzs]

6 hours ago, aztek said:

the title is outdated, they recovered, and do not have it anymore,  so the title should say HAD

Wow - that's sheer genius.  No one could actually just read the thread for themselves.

Just because *you* can't work things out, doesn't mean that the rest of the world can't.

[the13bats]

And trumps incompatance and carelessness just keeps on infecting people, he proves he just does care,

https://www.businessinsider.com/130-secret-service-officers-have-covid-19-or-quarantining-2020-11

And after hinding over a week due to his epic election loss and empty claims of voter fraud trump crawls out of his safe space of meltdown and sour defeat to make a forced covid announcement.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-gets-vaccine-update-after-criticism-he-s-ignored-pandemic-following-defeat/ar-BB1aZC0N

Needless to say it was full of untruths, undeserved self praise and typical trump go to of blaiming and insulting others esoecialky ones who make him look like the incompetent bumbling buffoonthst he is.

Lets hope all those secret service members that trumps huge fragile ego and gross carelessness placed in harms way have a fully and speedy recovery.

 

[the13bats]

And,

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/13/politics/cuomo-trump-vaccine-new-york-bully-cnntv/index.html

 

Just no limits how low trump will go due to his huge fragile ego, if he kills people in N.Y. he doesnt mind, N.Y. cant stand him anymore anyway,

Biden slaughtered deranged don in N.Y.

[Michelle]

Cuomo worried about 'flawed' vaccine plan before Biden takes office

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo on Sunday said he worried it would be hard for a Biden administration to "turn it back" if the Trump administration "rolls out a flawed" coronavirus vaccination plan.

Cuomo, speaking on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday morning, said "the vaccination plan is a huge undertaking; 330 million people have to be vaccinated. This nation only did 120 million COVID tests in seven months. If this administration rolls out a flawed vaccination plan, it's going to be a problem because it's going to be very hard for the Biden administration to turn it back."

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/cuomo-vaccination-plan-coronavirus-1.50060416

 

[the13bats]

2 hours ago, Michelle said:

Cuomo worried about 'flawed' vaccine plan before Biden takes office

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo on Sunday said he worried it would be hard for a Biden administration to "turn it back" if the Trump administration "rolls out a flawed" coronavirus vaccination plan.

Cuomo, speaking on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday morning, said "the vaccination plan is a huge undertaking; 330 million people have to be vaccinated. This nation only did 120 million COVID tests in seven months. If this administration rolls out a flawed vaccination plan, it's going to be a problem because it's going to be very hard for the Biden administration to turn it back."

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/cuomo-vaccination-plan-coronavirus-1.50060416

 

Everyone knows trumps life costing incompetent covid response was a disaster.

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, the13bats said:

Needless to say it was full of untruths, undeserved self praise and typical trump go to of blaiming and insulting others esoecialky ones who make him look like the incompetent bumbling buffoonthst he is.

I was surprised at his contradiction of Pfizer.  They were very clear when Pence made the announcement that,  "No, they were not part of Project Warp Speed." Now Trump is coming back saying they are wrong.  It would be hard for a major corporation not to know they were at the cutting edge of  a such an important project.  

[acidhead]

Just now, Tatetopa said:

I was surprised at his contradiction of Pfizer.  They were very clear when Pence made the announcement that,  "No, they were not part of Project Warp Speed." Now Trump is coming back saying they are wrong.  It would be hard for a major corporation not to know they were at the cutting edge of  a such an important project.  

Trump gave them almost 2 billion $

[Tatetopa]

3 minutes ago, President-Elect Acidhead said:

Trump gave them almost 2 billion $

No Mr. President-Elect, we the US tax payers will give them almost 2 billion when they deliver contractually required doses of the vaccine.  Trump has given them nothing yet.  Unlike .Astra-Zeneca and Moderna, they did not accept federal funding for development.  They own their formula and because they did not accept federal money for R&D, they can likely sell it to anybody and everybody they want.  Probably foreign countries and even Cuomo in New York.

[acidhead]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

No Mr. President-Elect, we the US tax payers will give them almost 2 billion when they deliver contractually required doses of the vaccine.  Trump has given them nothing yet.  Unlike .Astra-Zeneca and Moderna, they did not accept federal funding for development.  They own their formula and because they did not accept federal money for R&D, they can likely sell it to anybody and everybody they want.  Probably foreign countries and even Cuomo in New York.

You are your own leader

Embrace your world.  

[Tatetopa]

Just now, President-Elect Acidhead said:

You are your own leader

Embrace your world.  

Thanks, but I was wrong.   Pfizer says that since they have agreed to supply 100 million doses, they are part of Warp Speed.  That is the latest I heard.  I guess the fine print got straightened out.

[toast]

2 hours ago, President-Elect Acidhead said:

Trump gave them almost 2 billion $

^^False.

Quote

Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 07:10am

NEW YORK & MAINZ, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX)

today announced the execution of an agreement with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Defense to meet the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program goal to begin delivering 300 million doses of a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2021. Under the agreement, the U.S. government will receive 100 million doses of BNT162, the COVID-19 vaccine candidate jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, after Pfizer successfully manufactures and obtains approval or emergency use authorization from U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

(..)

The U.S. government will pay the companies $1.95 billion upon the receipt of the first 100 million doses, following FDA authorization or approval. The U.S. government also can acquire up to an additional 500 million doses.

(...)

pfizer.com

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 hours ago, President-Elect Acidhead said:

You are your own leader

Embrace your world.  

[Horta]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:57 AM, simplybill said:

The bolded words are the proof that Marxism is worthless. Karl Marx and his followers set out to destroy Capitalism, and yet they’re forced to once again embrace Capitalism after their Marxist ideology destroys their nations.
There are politicians here in North America (and in Europe) that openly espouse a Marxist organization, in spite of witnessing in real life how Marxist/Socialist/Communist ideology ruins everything it touches. It’s political insanity.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

That depends on your form of "Marxism". If you stick to 1800's Marxist ideas that have communism as the eventual goal and hold to it as if it's a religion, I agree (communism in any practical sense is utopian nonsense, beyond our species capabilities IMO). But if you are talking about ideas that evolved out of Marxist principles, that's a very different thing. 

The general term "left" (a common position amongst intellectuals) that would broadly include not only "socialists" but also Marxists (and even various anarchists) is a lot more refined these days. At least in the west. They all (at least mainstream ones that I know of) value and centre society around democracy. They realise democracy is impossible under the current economic system that the US pushes and which has become a form of corporate dictatorship in the US itself. Where it has led to a one party political system with two factions and different rhetoric. Though both owned by and in the service of corporate America. Some of these "Marxists" want to extend democracy to the economy, rather than have groups of corporate dictatorships controlling society. This is especially relevant regarding climate policy. The current sociopathic and exploitive economic system that you like to call "capitalist" is unlikely to ever get on top of this.

Think more Bernie Sanders, worker co-ops, public education and healthcare. Many of the things that the healthiest western societies already have. 

Though I take issue with your claim the US is a capitalist country to begin with. The US became successful through financing a couple of world wars where it ended up with half the worlds GDP and a manufacturing base unaffected by the war, while everyone else was in tatters. Since then foreign policy has always amounted to...trade what we want, with whom we want, at a price and especially in the currency we approve of and you'll get protection...don't do this and you'll get blockades, coups, assassinations, civil wars and if this doesn't work and you can't really fight back - invasion. It won't matter if you have a democratic government, we'll overthrow it and install our own dictator if necessary.....This isn't really sounding like "capitalism" or anything Adam Smith would recognise, it's really the same type of economics that the mafia were so successful with (a protection racket). When did Tariffs become part of free market economics?

Domestically the US has become a corporate welfare state. How are subsidies to rich oil companies "capitalist" even in principle? Surely if "market forces" were left to decide, there would be an awful lot of free office space to let on Wall St? How is throwing billions/trillions of dollars at corporations via Wall St banks leaving market forces to decide? Why are all of these banks even necessary? What value do they add to society (they see to do nothing but take)? Funny how in times of crisis (such as wars or the regular "capitalist" economic melt downs) governments go quite strongly socialist in efforts to fix the broken system, then it reverts only to eventually break again. You only have to look at the utter failure in the pandemic. Corporate America has been "on the dole" for the past couple of decades.

 

 

[Horta]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:53 AM, simplybill said:

I’m going by the accepted definition of Socialism:

“A theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole, usually through a centralized government.“

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism

 

That's irrelevant as it is a definition of "socialism" and you're changing all over the place. You specifically mentioned a "communist" regime (which would be a contradiction in terms). Communism is the end game. The end of class struggle, the end of worker exploitation where everyone receives from an "abundance of wealth" according to their needs and there is no need for a "regime" as such. Basically a society without greed. It's nonsense. Hasn't and will never happen.

Quote

You’re comparing social programs to Socialist government. Beyond NASA, the government doesn’t own the means of production for the space race, as evidenced by Elon Musk and Richard Branson, both of which are independently producing space travel technology. It’s the same with smart phones and the Internet: the government may have funded the initial research, but the government doesn’t control the means of production.

No. Governments funding research and social programs is a socialist principle. Remember the "capitalist" narrative? The one where the private sector does all the innovation and the government leaves them alone? Government is the problem, not the solution? Where market forces decide? You're just changing your definitions to match your propagandised beliefs. 

It's funny how it's not socialism, until you mention healthcare. Then it becomes extreme and radical socialism lol. It's probably difficult, if not impossible for a government not to embrace some forms of socialist politics.

The US taxpayer funded development of smart phones, the internet and a million other things. Even on the odd occasion when capitalists did invent something (the transistor for instance), the US taxpayer had to spend a fortune buying the output to make it viable. Until they became affordable and could be used. Similar to the way the US taxpayer funds medical research worth billions...which is then priced out of their reach. While in much of the world (socialist type) regulations stop this, and makes medication affordable (often at litterally hundreds of times cheaper than in the US).

Despite recently having his wealth go up by tens of billions of dollars thanks to gov welfare, Musk still relies on Chinese innovation and parts to build his mid/low end EV's. He is also (along with Branson) standing on the shoulders of (US tax payer funded) giants as far as basic rocket technology goes. Thanks to decades long programmes that included certain Nazi engineers and scientists (in particular one ex member of the Schutzstaffel).

There's an ironic parallel between Musk and Von Braun. The Nazis forced people to work in labor camps on Von Braun's projects (against his will as far as we know, he had no say in it). While conversely Musk forced people to work through a pandemic on his projects, against his governments wishes. As if to underly the obvious...that the US is run by an oligarchy, it's a corporate dictatorship.

 

[Horta]

On 10/26/2020 at 12:57 PM, simplybill said:

 

 The BLM movement was founded by professed ‘trained Marxists’. 

Having followed this claim back to the cited source, (which no doubt you will also have done ) it isn't even clear the relevant people themselves hold to any Marxist beliefs. In context it simply means their education covered various political ideologies including Marxism. Not that it would matter either way, without a lot more clarification. 

Surely it's republican ideologues that you must be concerned about. They already offer an example of regime change in America (via a civil war that was eventually won for them by France). Especially when you take into account the systematic genocide, enslavement...and the immiseration of certain groups ever since. Not to mention the wars and Empire building. With recent calls for beheadings of public figures...the planning of what appears to be a coup d'etat (though will fail as it hasn't got corporate support). Surely that would be a concern.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Horta

[+and-then]

On 10/19/2020 at 2:09 PM, lightly said:

It's good to hear we can ,at least, expect peace and quiet in the south  when trump looses .

This is cute.  Now that the evidence is coming to courts, we know without ANY doubt that the Dems and their cronies decided to F around and now they're going to find out.  

[Tatetopa]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

This is cute.  Now that the evidence is coming to courts, we know without ANY doubt that the Dems and their cronies decided to F around and now they're going to find out.  

Grandma the old farm girl used to say, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch."

Kenny Rogers updated that to, "You never count your money while you're sitting at the table.  There'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done."

The world needs to move on, but when results are in, we will pay attention.  

Evidence presented in court and made public so we can all see it check it and trust it.  

And just like that Kenny Rogers poker game, when you lay your hand down on the table for all to see, that is evidence.

When you are holding the cards in your hand and say you have 3 kings, that could be bluffing, but it is not evidence.

When the drink girls goes by and tells the table, :"Oh yeah, he has 3 kings" that is not evidence.

We will wait to hand over our chips when we all lay our cards on the table. and we all see that you have the best hand.

[the13bats]

16 minutes ago, and then said:

This is cute.  Now that the evidence is coming to courts, we know without ANY doubt that the Dems and their cronies decided to F around and now they're going to find out.  

you guys been blustering that for weeks, post a link prove it already.

it is nice you have laid off your threats of volence if trump should lose for any reason, afterall he did lose

Graham a rep did suggest tossing out votes trying to F around but an honest man called him out.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-election-brad-raffensperger-lindsey-graham-throw-out-ballots/#app