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If God Would Exist, The Devil Will Not!

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XenoFish

A lot of the times, when I see threads like this. I wonder what I'm arguing for or against. Due to the extremely subjective nature of belief it all seems pointless. 

God's and devil's both are just ideas that represent some-thing. Anything or anyone can be labeled a god or devil. If you look at the typical structure of human society you can see the mirror image of it in religion/spirituality. 

People choose the reality tunnel they see the world through.

 

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DieChecker

God created all. God is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing. God created angelic beings to do His bidding. The Devil/Satan is an angelic being. As the number two, its his job to take the hits and bad reputation. But ultimately he works for God.

The Devil does go about doing evil things, but such is his nature. Then God gets credit for fixing some of them, and the chaos left unfixed results in mankind getting to exert his own dominion of the Earth to fix things or not. Ultimately the short time on Earth is just testing for the afterlife. Its not what you did here, it is how you did it. Why you did it.

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DieChecker
20 hours ago, News said:

If you think about the true image of god (created) all powerful! Then the devil would not have a chance to be...

Please, Please, contradict me with facts!

So are you saying God can not be all powerful, or the Devil would not exist?

Fact... God created the Devil (According to Christian Myth).

Fact... God is all powerful. (According to the Bible. And assuming He created everything.)

Deduction... The Devil can not beat God. Thus he either works for God, or God for some reason allows him to exist.

Quote

I do believe god exist in nature, and the devil rules in society. For everything in nature is a miracle, and everything in society is a fraud!

Do you agree with all the above, part or none?

I'd agree as far as it is said the Devil is the "god" of the world. He's all the worst things in humanity that have never been driven out.

I'd argue there are things in society that are good. Charity, Selflessness, giving Hope, even providing things at a reasonable price is beneficial. 

It isn't society, but certain individuals in society that make it suck at times.

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XenoFish
32 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

God created all. God is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing. God created angelic beings to do His bidding. The Devil/Satan is an angelic being. As the number two, its his job to take the hits and bad reputation. But ultimately he works for God.

The Devil does go about doing evil things, but such is his nature. Then God gets credit for fixing some of them, and the chaos left unfixed results in mankind getting to exert his own dominion of the Earth to fix things or not. Ultimately the short time on Earth is just testing for the afterlife. Its not what you did here, it is how you did it. Why you did it.

How do you know that this is supposedly true.

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Rlyeh
4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

How do you know that this is supposedly true.

The Bible says so.

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DieChecker
5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

How do you know that this is supposedly true.

Christian doctrine is pretty openly known. This is all derived off pretty basic doctrine.

Most Christians don't want God to be responsible for evil. That it is just the Devil that causes evil. But logically since God is supposed to be infinite, and the Devil finite, God must ultimately be the one responsible. :devil:

The second paragraph is opinion based off the first paragraph. :innocent:

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Iilaa'mpuul'xem
1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

The Bible says so.

 

proofgodexists.jpg

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Stubbly_Dooright
22 hours ago, third_eye said:

Observe... 

[00.02:59]

~

I think I got it. :w00t:

so many opportunities, it might be dangerous.

;)  :devil:

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Stubbly_Dooright
12 hours ago, XenoFish said:

A lot of the times, when I see threads like this. I wonder what I'm arguing for or against. Due to the extremely subjective nature of belief it all seems pointless. 

God's and devil's both are just ideas that represent some-thing. Anything or anyone can be labeled a god or devil. If you look at the typical structure of human society you can see the mirror image of it in religion/spirituality. 

People choose the reality tunnel they see the world through.

 

I am off and reminded of how, people insist on pushing symbolism and subjective outlook in their religious environment. And, as a secular raised individual, it doesn’t show me proof of their religion, just personal excuses. 
I can see what you mean, when things come off as ideas. I’m seeing this here and there, on these boards, and in reality.

In the end, no one can really be proven from another person until they actually have proof in front of them. Suggested ideas, is only left to the person who suggest them. 
when it comes to the question in the OP, I sometimes wonder if God has to be proven first to prove the nonexistence of the devil.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
12 hours ago, DieChecker said:

God created all. God is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing. God created angelic beings to do His bidding. The Devil/Satan is an angelic being. As the number two, its his job to take the hits and bad reputation. But ultimately he works for God.

The Devil does go about doing evil things, but such is his nature. Then God gets credit for fixing some of them, and the chaos left unfixed results in mankind getting to exert his own dominion of the Earth to fix things or not. Ultimately the short time on Earth is just testing for the afterlife. Its not what you did here, it is how you did it. Why you did it.

If god allows the devil to do evil things isn't god ultimately responsible for the existence of evil ?

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Stubbly_Dooright
12 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I’d argue there are things in society that are good. Charity, Selflessness, giving Hope, even providing things at a reasonable price is beneficial. 

It isn't society, but certain individuals in society that make it suck at times

I did put a like on your post, because I do agree with this. I’m glad it was said other than me. 
though, Xeno made a good point, I think.

12 hours ago, DieChecker said:

So are you saying God can not be all powerful, or the Devil would not exist?

Fact... God created the Devil (According to Christian Myth).

Fact... God is all powerful. (According to the Bible. And assuming He created everything.)

Deduction... The Devil can not beat God. Thus he either works for God, or God for some reason allows him to exist.

Are these truly facts? Because, coming from me as a secular raised individual, how exactly is it a fact? Unless, it’s a particular fact from a particular point of view. 
I can see where the OP could more than likely get his point of view  to ask his questions. And his thoughts on the devil not existing but God does, brings back a memory of some thing someone said to me in my childhood. And that the fact is their belief system doesn’t believe in the devil but yet the believes in God.

There really isn’t any objective proof in any of the beliefs systems. Can the OP be proven right or wrong? Do you think what you said be proven to me as objective facts, when I grew up not even realizing them at all facts or not?

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 hours ago, Rlyeh said:
11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

How do you know that this is supposedly true.

The Bible says so.

Which one? ;)

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
A smiley makes all the difference.
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Stubbly_Dooright
5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Christian doctrine is pretty openly known. This is all derived off pretty basic doctrine.

Well, from my secular raised point of view, not really. 

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
Freaking accent
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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Christian doctrine is pretty openly known. 

If that is the case why are there thousands of different denominations ?

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Jon the frog
23 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I don’t understand the pictureless multicolored frame. What is this supposed to represent?

It's a filler to make a leadless conversation longer.

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 minutes ago, Jon the frog said:

It's a filler to make a leadless conversation longer.

Oh, that’s what I thought.

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DieChecker
5 hours ago, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

 

proofgodexists.jpg

I'd think Star Wars a better example, as it was long ago, and in a galaxy far, far away. :devil: Much harder to disprove. Anyone can go look around New York and be unable to find Spiderman. 

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DieChecker
39 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

If god allows the devil to do evil things isn't god ultimately responsible for the existence of evil ?

Yes. That would be true. 

Even if people don't like the idea of God allowing evil, it is biblical that God created the Devil, and thus is ultimately responsible. Just as if a person's dog got loose and killed several children... The owner is responsible.

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DieChecker
24 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

If that is the case why are there thousands of different denominations ?

Most of them share 90+% of doctrine. And the various differences are usually publicly known.

What we were getting on about though is very Christianity 101. Devil = bad/evil. God = infinite, etc...

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DieChecker
34 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Well, from my secular raised point of view, not really. 

you didn't know the Devil was evil and God is all powerful? That God created everything? Thats pretty much common knowledge, I thought.

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DieChecker
37 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Are these truly facts? Because, coming from me as a secular raised individual, how exactly is it a fact? Unless, it’s a particular fact from a particular point of view. 

It depends on your point of view. Some people only recognize scientific facts, but many facts are reference based. XYZ is a fact... Based on the Bible. Based on Darwin, Plato, Copernicus, Robert E Lee, Hitler, Bono, Trump, Bill Gates.... Things impossible to prove are usually also impossible to disprove.

I did make reference to where the facts came from. :tu: Anyone is free to dispute the sources. And doubtless someone will.

Quote

I can see where the OP could more than likely get his point of view  to ask his questions. And his thoughts on the devil not existing but God does, brings back a memory of some thing someone said to me in my childhood. And that the fact is their belief system doesn’t believe in the devil but yet the believes in God.

I've heard of that too, but the denomination escapes me at present. A form of Gnosticism perhaps?

Quote

There really isn’t any objective proof in any of the beliefs systems. Can the OP be proven right or wrong? Do you think what you said be proven to me as objective facts, when I grew up not even realizing them at all facts or not?

The OP asked for facts and opinion. :D That's what I gave him, out of the Bible, which is the generally accepted standard for Christianity.

I've long ago given up the idea thst Biblical/Christian, facts would change anyone's opinions. Or the idea of "proving" anything in religion. The best one can do is live their beliefs and if someone admires your life, tell them why you live that way.

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Stubbly_Dooright
35 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

you didn't know the Devil was evil and God is all powerful? That God created everything? Thats pretty much common knowledge, I thought.

Nope, really  didn’t know that. Until later, when it was coming from other mouths, I was also hearing various other things from various other mouths. So, at that point, it was not ever considered as a factual truth. It was just something various families believed in. 
That is also including Jewish families Muslim families, and also come across a lot of other atheist families. Oh, as a child growing up in a secular family, with no going to church or reading from any kind of religious book, I grew up to what  I can see and not what I am told because of a belief system.

Do you understand what I am saying here? What you consider as a fact or as a common point of view , I don’t. That’s why I, I don’t see it as how you see it based on my own life experiences and viewpoints.

For a long time in the first part of my life, there was no existence or thought or belief of God and Christianity. And considering I saw no examples of it at that time, I can see why it’s not a true fact to me now. Because, there’s no examples of proof of it now.

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Liquid Gardens
13 hours ago, DieChecker said:

The Devil does go about doing evil things, but such is his nature.

Like what specifically for example from the Bible?  God murders the entire world, including countless innocent sinless animals, except for one human family with a flood, and instructs his followers to bash the heads of babies of their enemies on rocks.  What 'evil' has Satan ever done that is even in the ballpark of those evils?

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Stubbly_Dooright
33 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

It depends on your point of view. Some people only recognize scientific facts, but many facts are reference based. XYZ is a fact... Based on the Bible. Based on Darwin, Plato, Copernicus, Robert E Lee, Hitler, Bono, Trump, Bill Gates.... Things impossible to prove are usually also impossible to disprove.

Let’s look at that last line. I personally don’t think that last line is a respectable thought to use as proof of something. If you’re going to reference how God is impossible to prove and then impossible to disprove then you also must believe in the Muslim God,the Wiccan goddess,the force, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, whatever gods that was worshiped in Star Trek Deep Space 9. So, what you believe in must be unlimiting, because they too cannot be disapproved.

I was also wondering but what you said and what I bolded. Are you saying about facts printed it in the Bible? As a bookseller for close to 20 years, I have come across so many various different Bibles with so many various ideals in it. Which one has the facts and which one does not?

38 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I’ve heard of that too, but the denomination escapes me at present. A form of Gnosticism perhaps?

Well I don’t know if this is the same beliefs system that you heard it from, but the person who told me this is a Presbyterian.

39 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

The OP asked for facts and opinion. :D That's what I gave him, out of the Bible, which is the generally accepted standard for Christianity.

Are you seeing what’s coming from the Bible is fact or opinion? So what is it also generally excepted standard for Christianity, is it also just from Christians? What do you think other people would consider as?

41 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I've long ago given up the idea thst Biblical/Christian, facts would change anyone's opinions. Or the idea of "proving" anything in religion. The best one can do is live their beliefs and if someone admires your life, tell them why you live that way.

I wonder though, the reason why you can’t prove to others, is the fact that they don’t see it as facts. I don’t see it as fax, and you can see why I don’t because of how I grew up in what I have seen as proof. I also, can’t see how anyone not realize what they’re saying is not really a fact. And I say this, as a person in my own unique belief. I still firmly believe in what I believe, and I can see that it’s not necessarily seen as facts and objective. I have no problem with that.

And I wonder, that you only tell people why you live the way you do to the people who actually make mention of that. The ones, who do admire your life. What about the ones that don’t care? Are you going to understandably let it be?

i’m sorry, what you think is a fact,  I don’t. And I have enough proof in my whole life to see it as that. And that’s also including, seeing my own belief without actual objective facts. And that’s fine for me, because the way I see it it’s for me only. Which I always believe religion and beliefs systems are for. For teaching those who live in it and not for those around them.

 

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DebDandelion
2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I am off and reminded of how, people insist on pushing symbolism and subjective outlook in their religious environment. And, as a secular raised individual, it doesn’t show me proof of their religion, just personal excuses. 
I can see what you mean, when things come off as ideas. I’m seeing this here and there, on these boards, and in reality.

In the end, no one can really be proven from another person until they actually have proof in front of them. Suggested ideas, is only left to the person who suggest them. 
when it comes to the question in the OP, I sometimes wonder if God has to be proven first to prove the nonexistence of the devil.

Good point you have there, does God have to be proven first to prove non-existence of the devil! I am biased here, so I can't volunteer an answer (unbiased) 

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