Virgin Mary chalk drawing reappears 13 yrs on

[psyche101]

7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Yes, that is a credible idea

No it is not credible. It's extremely silly. Explain why such a ridiculous idea is credible. Why would a all powerful being contact the faithful with street tags? 

7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

but 'God' might be too vague a word there. Mary and associates may be a more specific agent of these actions.

Vague doesn't come close. Ridiculous is closer. 

7 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

The evidence is there from many other cases to make the theory quite credible.

Hysterical reactions to unusual happenstance's are neither evidence not credible. Just like posters who welch on bets. 

[papageorge1]

10 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

No it is not credible. It's extremely silly. Explain why such a ridiculous idea is credible. Why would a all powerful being contact the faithful with street tags? 

Vague doesn't come close. Ridiculous is closer. 

Hysterical reactions to unusual happenstance's are neither evidence not credible. Just like posters who welch on bets. 

The evidence makes it credible! Marian miracles happen.

 

[XenoFish]

Pretty stupid 'miracle'. I mean if somehow covid vanished over night worldwide. I'd think that might be a bit more impressive that some drawing. I guess god is too weak to do anything actually impressive, that might actually entice people to believe. Not much of a god really.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

The evidence makes it credible! Marian miracles happen.

I think perfectly normal phenomena occur and people interpret them as "miraculous". What if it was a chalk drawing of a cow?

[papageorge1]

Just now, Nuclear Wessel said:

I think perfectly normal phenomena occur and people interpret them as "miraculous". What if it was a chalk drawing of a cow?

I think though with Mary events like Our Lady of Guadalupe and Our Lady of Fatima and other well-studied cases miracles genuinely occurred. Now as I said I'd like to see a full unbiased study of this possible chalk miracle. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

I think though with Mary events like Our Lady of Guadalupe and Our Lady of Fatima and other well-studied cases miracles genuinely occurred. Now as I said I'd like to see a full unbiased study of this possible chalk miracle. 

Miracles, as in events that had a divine influence? Nope.

[papageorge1]

Just now, Nuclear Wessel said:

Miracles, as in events that had a divine influence? Nope.

And I have looked and say 'Yep' but those other cases are not the subject of this thread. 

[psyche101]

59 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

The evidence makes it credible!

Hearsay isn't evidence. 

Anecdotes aren't evidence. 

Considering a chalk drawing divine intervention is incredibly silly. 

59 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Marian miracles happen.

No they don't. Stories happen, mainly with the credulous. You are an enemy of reason 

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

. 

No they don't. Stories happen, mainly with the credulous. You are an enemy of reason 

Stop bickering.  Closed-mindedness by certain members  is the enemy of reason.

[psyche101]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Stop bickering.  Closed-mindedness by certain members  is the enemy of reason.

Exactly, your closed mindedness towards rational explanations is deplorable. Your opposition to science is unfathomable. 

What warrants a full investigation as you suggested earlier? Who should pay a professional to waste time on a credulous anecdote? Would you personally fund it? And would you accept a rational mundane explanation under any circumstances?

I seriously doubt that. 

[Davros of Skaro]

No check of any CCTV security systems that point in that direction?

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Hearsay isn't evidence. 

Anecdotes aren't evidence. 

Considering a chalk drawing divine intervention is incredibly silly. 

No they don't. Stories happen, mainly with the credulous. You are an enemy of reason 

No he is right Miracles happen You just cant accept  tha t to be true  (Or even to be possible) 

The y may, or may not, be divine but there are miracles happening to people, all around the world, every day

Reason is  accepting truth and reality. Not denying it because of a belief or disbelief  

Things which happen to individual people are evidences 

The y become anecdotes  and hearsay when others are told of them, but to the first individual involved, they are (or can be)  factual and evidenced, not hearsay or anecdote  For example I gave myself a tiny cut (1 to 2 millimetres wide in diameter and very shallow)  with some pliers last night when i was trying to get my bike ready for the summer

It bled for several hours, and i had to maintain pressure and a tissue on it for that time  

This is true, but might seem unbelievable, unless you  knew i was on blood thinners and had just tested as being a bit over the dosage required, meaning my blood wouldn't clot. 

So, to you, the story is an  unlikely anecdote, as such a small wound should have stopped bleeding immediately.

  To me it is true, and my sore finger and bandaid are the evidences of its reality 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Mr Walker

[psyche101]

45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No he is right Miracles happen You just cant accept  tha t to be true  (Or even to be possible) 

The y may, or may not, be divine but there are miracles happening to people, all around the world, every day

Reason is  accepting truth and reality. Not denying it because of a belief or disbelief  

Things which happen to individual people are evidences 

The y become anecdotes  and hearsay when others are told of them, but to the first individual involved, they are (or can be)  factual and evidenced, not hearsay or anecdote  For example I gave myself a tiny cut (1 to 2 millimetres wide in diameter and very shallow)  with some pliers last night when i was trying to get my bike ready for the summer

It bled for several hours, and i had to maintain pressure and a tissue on it for that time  

This is true, but might seem unbelievable, unless you  knew i was on blood thinners and had just tested as being a bit over the dosage required, meaning my blood wouldn't clot. 

So, to you, the story is an  unlikely anecdote, as such a small wound should have stopped bleeding immediately.

  To me it is true, and my sore finger and bandaid are the evidences of its reality 

 

No they don't, you have about as much credibility as PG after your last bout of utter nonsense. I know you are not truthful for sure after that. And I have no time for you anymore. 

I'd appreciate it if you don't converse with me. You are well below my standards. I'm not interested in pandering to your childish attention seeking. Play pretend with someone else. 

[Mr Walker]

7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

No they don't, you have about as much credibility as PG after your last bout of utter nonsense. I know you are not truthful for sure after that. And I have no time for you anymore. 

I'd appreciate it if you don't converse with me. You are well below my standards. I'm not interested in pandering to your childish attention seeking. Play pretend with someone else. 

lol  My credibility is not the issue 

Miracles occur every day, to millions of people around the world.  Basically a miracle is anything that occurs which, given the known and understood laws of physics, should NOT occur;  OR which is so statistically unlikely to occur, that it is mathematically almost impossible   to occur  naturally ie without directed conscious  intent or purpose.

So at first sight an empty tumbler floating in mid air after a sofa was shifted( and remaining there for several minutes being observed by several sober individuals,) before falling to the floor, is  a miracle.

it remains a miracle until the reasons why/how it did that  can be proven or at least logically explained   

The real problem is your refusal to accept things which are real but are outside your experience and which ou cannot accept given your distaste for all such things 

give me ONE statement i have ever made which you can PROVE is untrue let alone a lie  (ie a deliberate untruth)

You dont get to wiggle out of such debates just because th y make you feel uncomfortable (well actually you can but that is the real reason you wont debate them not the ones you have given here ie you wont talk with anyone who claims experience with anything you believe is impossible .  

[eight bits]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No he is right Miracles happen You just cant accept  tha t to be true  (Or even to be possible) 

Maybe this time, since it doesn't involve you personally, you'll get it.

The issue is not whether miracles happen, but rather which is more likely in this case:

(1) The mother of Almighty God and the reigning Queen of Heaven plopped down Mexico way to kazam a chalk portrait of herself in the roadway, or

(2) Some fanboy or fangirl took a box of colored chalk and made a portrait of their favorite religious icon?

Take your time. I know it's a tough choice.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by eight bits

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

you wont talk with anyone who claims experience with anything you believe is impossible .  

Nope, just you.

I mean, for years he has put up with the same BS coming from you. Do you blame the guy?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Nuclear Wessel

[HollyDolly]

Well in the past I guess someone did a chalk drawing of the Virgin Mary, now it reappears at the same spot after 13 years. You can clearly see the image.They mention that it has been exposed to the elements, cars drive over it etc. Some things can't be explained by science because they don't follow the normal laws of science,etc. Look up the Faces of Belemez Spain that appeared on the floor of a woman's house. Who knows, maybe Our Lady is just reminding people to pray, i don't know.

[+Liquid Gardens]

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

give me ONE statement i have ever made which you can PROVE is untrue

Your 2 contradictory whale tales, you proved mostly on your own that one of those was false.  The above is not a good standard:  "Miracles have never occurred - prove it untrue "

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, Liquid Gardens said:

Your 2 contradictory whale tales, you proved mostly on your own that one of those was false.  The above is not a good standard:  "Miracles have never occurred - prove it untrue "

Whale tales?

I'm listening...

Edited October 16, 2020 by Nuclear Wessel

[jmccr8]

8 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Whale tales?

I'm listening...

Hi Nuclear

It was a real booty clap.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

21 hours ago, eight bits said:

Maybe this time, since it doesn't involve you personally, you'll get it.

The issue is not whether miracles happen, but rather which is more likely in this case:

(1) The mother of Almighty God and the reigning Queen of Heaven plopped down Mexico way to kazam a chalk portrait of herself in the roadway, or

(2) Some fanboy or fangirl took a box of colored chalk and made a portrait of their favorite religious icon?

Take your time. I know it's a tough choice.

 

No IMO that's not this issue a t all Psyche is cognitively incapable of accepting anything in this realm. Indeed he seems(  on UM at least)  to be incapable of accepting anything but the most concrete and presently known facts as real or possible. I can understand this comes from  the hurt religion did to him when younger; but, he can't even see into the future and accept  the changes which will evolve over time in technology and our sciences  

He's proven that, in general and particular arguments and views,  in his posts 

Personally i wasn't talking about the  painting at all.

i know nothing about it and am not qualified to comment.

Personally  i doubt it is a much of a miracle, as it will have a mundane explanation which can be discovered with investigation

ONLY if/when no such explanation could be discovered after rigorous investigation, would i,be willing to concede tha t it MIGHT be a miracle.

BUT real, actual, miracles  (as defined in my post ie  Basically a miracle is anything that occurs which, given the known and understood laws of physics, should NOT occur;  OR which is so statistically unlikely to occur, that it is mathematically almost impossible   to occur  naturally ie without directed conscious  intent or purpose.)

happen to human beings every day  

Edited October 17, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

14 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Your 2 contradictory whale tales, you proved mostly on your own that one of those was false.  The above is not a good standard:  "Miracles have never occurred - prove it untrue "

No what was shown was tha t my story was true A whale was trapped in a tuna pen and did escape or was helped to get out   After half a century its not surprising that i got one detail wrong in retelling the story after that time  But i was accused of lying/ making things up and that the event had never occurred. I was proven right. The doubters wrong.

The story was not false it was true.  Even now know one really knows or remembers exactly how the whale got out of the pen There is no record of the event anywhere on any media.  

It is easy for me to prove miracles occur to my OWN satisfaction, because i would be dead, and so would my wife, if the y never happened.

Proving a miracle to a doubter not present at an event is impossible but tha t doesn't mean they don't happen.  

You can read thousands of accounts of people saved or helped by miracles 

Only by calling everyone of them deluded or a liar can you maintain the statement  that "Miracles have never occurred"  is true Thats a dangerous and flawed premise on which to maintain  a belief that miracles do not occur    ie tha t you know better and are more intelligent, logical and  sensible,   then everyone  who has experienced a miracle and knows they occur  

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

20 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Nope, just you.

I mean, for years he has put up with the same BS coming from you. Do you blame the guy?

Please outline one instance of something you can prove or demonstrate is BS, coming from  my posts.

You might not like (or believe)  some of my claims or experiences or views That doesn't make them untruthful and certainly doesn't make them BS  You are required to demonstrate that i am lying or BSting  if you want to make such a claim. 

[eight bits]

44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No IMO that's not this issue a t all Psyche

What has Psyche to do with the topic of this thread? A chalk drawing of a popular subject was found just where somebody else had drawn the same subject in chalk 13 years before.

Psyche didn't do it. He has an alibi. Somebody else drew the thing. Big whoop.

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

8 minutes ago, eight bits said:

What has Psyche to do with the topic of this thread? A chalk drawing of a popular subject was found just where somebody else had drawn the same subject in chalk 13 years before.

Psyche didn't do it. He has an alibi. Somebody else drew the thing. Big whoop.

 

I drew it.