UK shadow ministers resign over spy cops Bill

[Eldorado]

Two Labour MPs have resigned from the shadow frontbench over a bill to allow covert agents to break the law.

Former shadow financial secretary Dan Carden and Margaret Greenwood defied the party whip to vote against the Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill.

In a letter to Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer, Mr Carden said he feared the law would set "dangerous new precedents".

Full report at the BBC: Link

 

“The use of such disturbing measures is a real fear – we’ve seen it happen in Northern Ireland, when undercover agents in paramilitary organisations were allowed by their handlers to torture and kill innocent civilians so that they could keep their cover intact. 

“It is deeply shocking that such appalling acts could now be declared lawful for all purposes across the UK and overseas.

At Amnesty International: Link

[ethereal_scout]

Some Pigs are more equal than others.

[Ozymandias]

Historically, the UK has engaged in this kind of thing in Ireland and its other one-time colonies. This kind of behaviour has always given the lie to Britain's claim to be an ethical champion of human rights. Since its loss of empire there has been a reflux of former colonials into the 'mother' country that has increasingly posed problems for the UK and its colonial immigrants, problems that have compounded with time. The proposal seems to be to visit upon its home population what it never baulked at wreaking upon its former oversees territories. I am not surprised in the least.

Another issue is that, in the UK, parliament is sovereign. That means that some 650 MPs are sovereign over a population in excess of 65 million people who are being given no say whatever regarding these new powers which will be wielded in secret behind closed doors and not transparently exercised at all. 

It is unbelievable that in a so-called liberal democracy, its government can sanction the torture and abuse of innocent citizens in order to protect the identity and mission of its spies and undercover agents.

[stevewinn]

26 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Historically, the UK has engaged in this kind of thing in Ireland and its other one-time colonies. This kind of behaviour has always given the lie to Britain's claim to be an ethical champion of human rights. Since its loss of empire there has been a reflux of former colonials into the 'mother' country that has increasingly posed problems for the UK and its colonial immigrants, problems that have compounded with time. The proposal seems to be to visit upon its home population what it never baulked at wreaking upon its former oversees territories. I am not surprised in the least.

Another issue is that, in the UK, parliament is sovereign. That means that some 650 MPs are sovereign over a population in excess of 65 million people who are being given no say whatever regarding these new powers which will be wielded in secret behind closed doors and not transparently exercised at all. 

It is unbelievable that in a so-called liberal democracy, its government can sanction the torture and abuse of innocent citizens in order to protect the identity and mission of its spies and undercover agents.

remember when we infiltrated Irish terrorists networks to the point where their members standing together in the room they didn't know who was a British agent or not. at the time the Irish terrorist where killing innocent men woman and children like cowards planting bombs, we shed no tears when the British state was eliminating terrorist.  

my favourite was when Gerry Adams the leader of the Irish terrorist group the I.R.A, learned of a plot to assassinate him by his own side, and he ran to his enemy the British secret service to foil the plot to save him.

not many western countries pride themselves on being terrorist as Ireland does.

[Ozymandias]

33 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

 

not many western countries pride themselves on being terrorist as Ireland does.

Are you serious?! You think Ireland prides itself on being a terrorist country?!! What fantasy world are you living in, man?

[stevewinn]

22 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Are you serious?! You think Ireland prides itself on being a terrorist country?!! What fantasy world are you living in, man?

oh yes, a terrorist campaign cannot continue for the length of time without support of the community its operating in. do you condone the actions of Irish terrorist against the UK?

[Ozymandias]

34 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

oh yes, a terrorist campaign cannot continue for the length of time without support of the community its operating in. do you condone the actions of Irish terrorist against the UK?

Well the IRA were operating in a community that was a part of the UK. For the most part they are a home-grown UK terrorist organisation that operated in the main in Northern Ireland which is a part of the UK. 

Do I condone the actions of Irish terrorists against the UK? Of course not! 

[stevewinn]

22 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Well the IRA were operating in a community that was a part of the UK. For the most part they are a home-grown UK terrorist organisation that operated in the main in Northern Ireland which is a part of the UK. 

Do I condone the actions of Irish terrorists against the UK? Of course not! 

terrorist were active in communities north and south of the border.

[ethereal_scout]

Personally I'm against this move, its the conservative party who are trying to out terrorise the terrorists IMO by having watched too many James Bond films and may truly occupy a reality where these sorts of goings on are common place. Basically, they're deluded IMO with a 'we are right' complex. It says something about the quality of the police force we now have (dumb and dumber) that they feel they need this legislation. What it for, infiltrating  drugs gangs by being NOW able to take drugs themselves?

[Ozymandias]

28 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

terrorist were active in communities north and south of the border.

You don't say!! The overwhelming majority of this terrorist activity went on in Northern Ireland. That is in the UK, not the Republic. Policemen and innocent women and children were killed by cowardly terrorists both sides of the border. It is now over twenty years since over 93% of the Republic's citizens repudiated its territorial claim to Northern Ireland by a referendum and endorsed the Good Friday Agreement. That represents a massive rejection of terrorism by the people and the government. How does any of that fit in with your claim that Ireland 'prides itself on being terrorist'! If any state countenances and colludes in terrorist activity, albeit always surreptitiously and until it is exposed, it is the UK, not the Republic.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

oh yes, a terrorist campaign cannot continue for the length of time without support of the community its operating in.

Of course it can. It's only 20 years or so since the Good Friday Agreement.

What's the betting the IRA today is just a bunch of elderly members trying to relieve their glory days through their kids?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Setton