Aroundthecorner Posted October 16, 2020 #1 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Any belief system in something that is faith based creates the need for protections by its followers, this then grows into cults which in turn create nut jobs. Some of those nut jobs go on to run countries and start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebDandelion Posted October 16, 2020 #2 Share Posted October 16, 2020 You are spending some time thinking about this. Questions: a) let us say that God doesn't exist, and people are left without belief systems, are you saying our nature will not lead to (some of) us to do 'evil' things? you don't have to have faith to create wars, wars can be created with a difference in opinion, faith is not the same as belief. You can have a different set of beliefs than those you are in war with, not just faith based. C) if you feel superior to others you might feel that they don't deserve a place in the sun, hence you eradicate the people you deem not worthy (look at history) So, looking at possibilities, if we are going to throw God in as evil we all might as well get slapped with a title of evil. Then again, the fact is there are those who choose not to be 'evil'. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted October 16, 2020 #3 Share Posted October 16, 2020 God is an idea. An idea people use to justify all manner of harm. You would need of factually prove God's existence in order to blame everything on it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebDandelion Posted October 16, 2020 #4 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, XenoFish said: God is an idea. An idea people use to justify all manner of harm. You would need of factually prove God's existence in order to blame everything on it. I like the way u think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted October 16, 2020 #5 Share Posted October 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, Aroundthecorner said: start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. Not really. They'd find another reason. In certain cases I wonder if the idea of god and its religion are what is keeping some people from becoming complete scum. It's very much a double edged sword. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted October 16, 2020 #6 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, DebDandelion said: I like the way u think I appreciate that. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 16, 2020 Author #7 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: Not really. They'd find another reason. In certain cases I wonder if the idea of god and its religion are what is keeping some people from becoming complete scum. It's very much a double edged sword. You cannot prove that assumption, the facts are religion creates wars and segregation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted October 16, 2020 #8 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Aroundthecorner said: You cannot prove that assumption, the facts are religion creates wars and segregation. People create religions. People also created governments. Not all religions are Christian. The Abrahamic religions are the war religions. Thing is they're not the only belief structure out there. So no, not all religions create war and division. It's a people problem. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbenol Posted October 16, 2020 #9 Share Posted October 16, 2020 45 minutes ago, Aroundthecorner said: Any belief system in something that is faith based creates the need for protections by its followers, this then grows into cults which in turn create nut jobs. Some of those nut jobs go on to run countries and start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. That's incredibly naive. And I say that as an atheist. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 16, 2020 #10 Share Posted October 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Aroundthecorner said: You cannot prove that assumption, the facts are religion creates wars and segregation. Hi Aroudthecorner Men have used religion as a means of inciting war but many of the men on the front line do not fight for their belief in god they fight because of the leaders that send them there. jmccr8 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horta Posted October 16, 2020 #11 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Aroundthecorner said: Any belief system in something that is faith based creates the need for protections by its followers, this then grows into cults which in turn create nut jobs. Some of those nut jobs go on to run countries and start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. Wars are fought over power and wealth. Often religion helps in the brainwashing of the masses (God mit uns), but it's rarely the actual reason for wars themselves, even in the so called "religious wars" of the past. War is endemic to our species. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted October 16, 2020 #12 Share Posted October 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, Horta said: Wars are fought over power and wealth. Often religion helps in the brainwashing of the masses (God mit uns), but it's rarely the actual reason for wars themselves, even in the so called "religious wars" of the past. War is endemic to our species. Agree. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #13 Share Posted October 17, 2020 13 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Aroudthecorner Men have used religion as a means of inciting war but many of the men on the front line do not fight for their belief in god they fight because of the leaders that send them there. jmccr8 In god we trust and all that you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 17, 2020 #14 Share Posted October 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Aroundthecorner said: In god we trust and all that you mean? No sure what you mean but in these days our militaries in the west have enlisted men from many different religious backgrounds as well as atheists so they are not going to war for their god they are going because they believed in their country, family, friends not to mention having a sense of adventure and purpose. Sometimes people look at a dot on a wall and that is all they see, they don't see the significance of the wall and how it supports the roof. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #15 Share Posted October 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: No sure what you mean but in these days our militaries in the west have enlisted men from many different religious backgrounds as well as atheists so they are not going to war for their god they are going because they believed in their country, family, friends not to mention having a sense of adventure and purpose. Sometimes people look at a dot on a wall and that is all they see, they don't see the significance of the wall and how it supports the roof. jmccr8 Personal dig aside, in god we trust is reference to the fact that all societies use that term in some form or another it is the backbone of all military groups around the world. I think Nancy Pelosi is a fool and very funny to watch doesnt mean i support her in any way or worship her every word. I certainly wouldnt fight on her say so or any other leaders order, especially when the word god is used to reaffirm that hand over heart its for the right reason rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 17, 2020 #16 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Aroundthecorner said: Personal dig aside, in god we trust is reference to the fact that all societies use that term in some form or another it is the backbone of all military groups around the world. I think Nancy Pelosi is a fool and very funny to watch doesnt mean i support her in any way or worship her every word. I certainly wouldnt fight on her say so or any other leaders order, especially when the word god is used to reaffirm that hand over heart its for the right reason rubbish. Hi Aroundthecorner No dig and didn't say anything about your politics, your country isn't a politician it is the people that live within the confines of a geographic position that has a standard of living that people from many ethnic and religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs who love that place /life/family/friends and want to protect them even those that criticize or scorn them. When I stood beside my brothers no matter where they were from we were brothers that bled ,died and lived together. I doubt that that is or has been any different for eons. War needs to be justified by some means and the man on the ground isn't making the decision to go to war they signed up to do what they are told to and those that don't are disciplined and pretty sure during most of the time through history religion was a tool of social justification for the citizens to support a war and not the motivation of the soldier. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #17 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Aroundthecorner No dig and didn't say anything about your politics, your country isn't a politician it is the people that live within the confines of a geographic position that has a standard of living that people from many ethnic and religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs who love that place /life/family/friends and want to protect them even those that criticize or scorn them. When I stood beside my brothers no matter where they were from we were brothers that bled ,died and lived together. I doubt that that is or has been any different for eons. War needs to be justified by some means and the man on the ground isn't making the decision to go to war they signed up to do what they are told to and those that don't are disciplined and pretty sure during most of the time through history religion was a tool of social justification for the citizens to support a war and not the motivation of the soldier. jmccr8 You are missing my point, all wars are god related in essence. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 17, 2020 #18 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Aroundthecorner said: You are missing my point, all wars are god related in essence. I am not missing your point, yes religion has been used as a mask about exerting power and gaining resources for individual groups that have the authority to incite a war for gain. However what I am telling you is that is it's extent a ploy and not an actual belief of all individuals and you may not have noticed but the last two world wars were fought within primarily Christian countries so god doesn't seem to have much of a motivating impact. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #19 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: I am not missing your point, yes religion has been used as a mask about exerting power and gaining resources for individual groups that have the authority to incite a war for gain. However what I am telling you is that is it's extent a ploy and not an actual belief of all individuals and you may not have noticed but the last two world wars were fought within primarily Christian countries so god doesn't seem to have much of a motivating impact. jmccr8 They used the words god to conscript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 17, 2020 #20 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Aroundthecorner said: They used the words god to conscript. To justify a means to an end but it is not an accurate description of the individuals motivations involved in the battles that followed. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #21 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, jmccr8 said: To justify a means to an end but it is not an accurate description of the individuals motivations involved in the battles that followed. jmccr8 It defines the request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 17, 2020 #22 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Aroundthecorner said: It defines the request. It's all about man not gods they don't exist men do. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #23 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, jmccr8 said: It's all about man not gods they don't exist men do. jmccr8 Finally... yet all countries use the term to enlist its people and the people repeat that term. Surely that displays a sheep like mentality at its base level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted October 17, 2020 #24 Share Posted October 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Aroundthecorner said: Finally... yet all countries use the term to enlist its people and the people repeat that term. Surely that displays a sheep like mentality at its base level. Are you suggesting that was my motivation to enlist ? jmccr8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroundthecorner Posted October 17, 2020 Author #25 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Are you suggesting that was my motivation to enlist ? jmccr8 No... did I say that, dont think I did did I? But I bet you raised a hand in affirmation of a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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