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Aroundthecorner

God is the route to all evil

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Jon the frog
22 hours ago, Aroundthecorner said:

You are missing my point, all wars are god related in essence. 

nope:

The War of the Donkey (Italian: guerra dell'asino) was a conflict in 1286 between the rival noble families of the Ghisi and the Sanudo in the Duchy of the Archipelago in the Aegean Sea, over the ownership of a donkey.

War for human is like life in jurassic park, it will always find a way !

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Dejarma
5 minutes ago, Jon the frog said:

nope:

The War of the Donkey (Italian: guerra dell'asino) was a conflict in 1286 between the rival noble families of the Ghisi and the Sanudo in the Duchy of the Archipelago in the Aegean Sea, over the ownership of a donkey.

War for human is like life in jurassic park, it will always find a way !

yeah, some are not i agree- but many are, or shall i go as saying 'most' are...are we talking facts here?

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White-Coyote
2 hours ago, Dejarma said:

god/ gods do not exist therefore (IN MY OPINION)  god is not the route of all evil, the belief in god/ gods is

I think desire for power is the real route, (or root, or whatever) of most evil. People go about getting it in different ways. Some use religion, or money. 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Dejarma said:

are you admitting to forcing your views on others? Your many posts in this place suggest to me you are:

33 thousand+ posts kinda backs me up on this? Does it not? I don't know- what do you think?!

lol No I just finished explicitly explaining that that was NOT what i do 

No one can "force their views" on anyone else 

I present views /opinions,choices, ways of living, knowledge and skills.  People can accept or reject any or all of them 

its true i was raised to believe that every human being has a duty to educate, care for, and be responsible, for others, and to make life better for others and society  That duty is epsectilly true when dealing with the  young or disadvantaged These were the secular humanist principles which my parents raised me to 

I am also influenced by my passion for teaching which ive been doing, first informally and the professionally, for  60 years of my life 

A teacher cant force knowledge or values on a child. Neither can a parent  BUT adults can, and need to  (as a part of their social duty) present knowledge and values which they believe will best serve children That also extends to adult to adult  relationships  

My posts reflect an interest and a passion in this area. I know  some ways people can live better happier more empowered lives.  It would be selfish of me not to share those. But that is as far as my duty extends  Evey one is entitled to live a life filled with fear, anger, loneliness low self esteem unhappiness and pointlessness  I just point out that no one has to make the choices which lead to that sort of life.
if you  don't like tha t, or don't approve of it, I would ask you to reflect  on WHY you reject options which might make a person's life happier and better

Eg I'd encourage every parent to get their children reading as early and as widely as possible, simply because reading skill predicts not just success a t school but success in life   

Id encourage every adult to demonstrate to a child what love is and how it feels, so that  the child can learn the neurological patterns which represent love, and will be able to love themselves and others, as an adult. 

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, Dejarma said:

prove it.. Of course, you can't so it's nothing more than words with no substance.. Anyone can say anything in this format- why would something you say in here mean something to me or anyone else?

How do you perceive it? I'm interested

lol come and see me. The proof is in my life 

Plus of course i dont have to prove it  As long as i know it is true, I am justified in using it as an example   

and finally it is based on modern science, medicine, psychology, sociology etc.

  Again, i have to ask what it  is that  you fear about anyone giving you (generic)  better options for living.

  Is it that, when you know them, you have less excuse to ignore them?  

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Crazy Horse
5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Finally an agreement.

However people learn languages cultural beliefs values and attitudes as well as religious beliefs 

We all construct our own world views No one can force one upon us, but yes we take in what we experience around us process it and use it in our own cognitive evolution   Then it is up to us to construct an inner system which works for us  

I guess we only see beliefs enslaving us when we don't agree with them. When we agree with them we think they liberate and empower us (and, therefore. they do.) 

Religions, including christianity, don't absolve us from  personal responsibility/accountability.  If anything, the y make us more accountable for our thoughts and behaviours. Even  an atheist must construct an alternative (non religious)  set of values and moralities, and the self discipline to live by them. Personally, I like humanism, which was the ethical base of my parents. 

Well, with a mindful approach to life, and an attitude of self-responsibility, then we can live our lives from moment to moment without the net of dogma and other folks beliefs getting in the way.

This is something we can all try, and therefore know for ourselves. No need to force any belief upon someone, just a gentle encouragement setting a good example.

 

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and then
On 10/16/2020 at 3:57 AM, Aroundthecorner said:

Any belief system in something that is faith based creates the need for protections by its followers, this then grows into cults which in turn create nut jobs. Some of those nut jobs go on to run countries and start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. 

You actually believe that if religious dogma is removed from humanity that humans will have a default desire to be moral?  Can you cite any example where this has happened spontaneously?  Also, it's a fallacy that mankind's wars were predominately religious in nature.  For THAT, all you need is good, old fashioned hate and a desire to subjugate others.

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Aroundthecorner
2 hours ago, and then said:

You actually believe that if religious dogma is removed from humanity that humans will have a default desire to be moral?  Can you cite any example where this has happened spontaneously?  Also, it's a fallacy that mankind's wars were predominately religious in nature.  For THAT, all you need is good, old fashioned hate and a desire to subjugate others.

I am saying religion plays a part in wars.

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Jon the frog
7 hours ago, and then said:

You actually believe that if religious dogma is removed from humanity that humans will have a default desire to be moral?  Can you cite any example where this has happened spontaneously?  Also, it's a fallacy that mankind's wars were predominately religious in nature.  For THAT, all you need is good, old fashioned hate and a desire to subjugate others.

Greed you just need greeeeeeed !

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Wepwawet
On 10/16/2020 at 9:57 AM, Aroundthecorner said:

Any belief system in something that is faith based creates the need for protections by its followers, this then grows into cults which in turn create nut jobs. Some of those nut jobs go on to run countries and start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. 

The issues are more to do with monotheism than religion per se as the same arguments could be used for politics. Plurality in gods and politics is the way to avoid these issues, IMO.

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Mr Walker
16 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well, with a mindful approach to life, and an attitude of self-responsibility, then we can live our lives from moment to moment without the net of dogma and other folks beliefs getting in the way.

This is something we can all try, and therefore know for ourselves. No need to force any belief upon someone, just a gentle encouragement setting a good example.

 

I agree completely but i dont understand how people can believe they can be "forced into a belief"

Behaviours yes, because these can be monitored, but beliefs, no, because no one can see what you are believing.

I really suspect tha t some people who have a problem with this are people who always had problems with people telling them what to do, from parents, to school, to police etc

They simply don't like being told that a different behaviour would bring better results for them, and those around them . 

It is understandable. We all have an integrated world view which we have invested in building. It takes courage, time and effort, to set aside any of tha t investment, and rebuild a world view. Most people honestly don't see it as worthwhile to expend that effort , unless their life is a real mess.   

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Crazy Horse
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I agree completely but i dont understand how people can believe they can be "forced into a belief"

Behaviours yes, because these can be monitored, but beliefs, no, because no one can see what you are believing.

I really suspect tha t some people who have a problem with this are people who always had problems with people telling them what to do, from parents, to school, to police etc

They simply don't like being told that a different behaviour would bring better results for them, and those around them . 

It is understandable. We all have an integrated world view which we have invested in building. It takes courage, time and effort, to set aside any of tha t investment, and rebuild a world view. Most people honestly don't see it as worthwhile to expend that effort , unless their life is a real mess.   

Indeed.

I never try to force my beliefs upon anyone. This is why setting a good example is so important, and a gentle encouragement laced with skill, compassion and wisdom, 

Love is the key, but without a mindful approach to life and an attitude of self-responsibility, then its no so powerful,

Personally, I don't have an issue with changing my mind, beliefs, ideas and notions, because I am only interested in knowing the truth, for myself, and am lucky enough to have the integrity, the honesty, and the lack of ego to drop even long held views if they no longer serve this pathway.

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Camazotz86
On 10/16/2020 at 11:00 PM, Aroundthecorner said:

Personal dig aside, in god we trust is reference to the fact that all societies use that term in some form or another it is the backbone of all military groups around the world. I think Nancy Pelosi is a fool and very funny to watch doesnt mean i support her in any way or worship her every word. I certainly wouldnt fight on her say so or any other leaders order, especially when the word god is used to reaffirm that hand over heart its for the right reason rubbish. 

You can't generalize that way about all the military organizations in our planet,in our case serving a liar orange clown hasn't worked our standing in any way diplomatically or as perceived by other countries

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White Crane Feather
On 10/16/2020 at 1:57 AM, Aroundthecorner said:

Any belief system in something that is faith based creates the need for protections by its followers, this then grows into cults which in turn create nut jobs. Some of those nut jobs go on to run countries and start wars based on the religious beliefs, take away gods and that belief and the world is free and easy. 

I guess you have never heard of Stalin or other leaders in secular systems also built on zealotry. It appears to be less about religions and gods and more about how people behave in general. 

Edited by White Crane Feather

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