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Atlantis Explained!


Rojack

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3 hours ago, Rojack said:

 

Atlantis Has Been Found!

Hello New Comers,

Help us Solve this Great World-Wide Mystery!

What’s going on! I have searched Plato’s story of Atlantis and made a  deduction that North America was the continent of Atlantis.  I will present the information for your review and discussion: I will ask a question, show Plato’s text, and show what I believe is the answer to that question. Let’s go back and study Plato’s language. However, some of the language has changed over time. However, most of the research information needed to solve the mystery is presented in this series of brief articles? You may have to review some the info more than once.

Question: Where was Atlantis?

Plato: “and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together and was the way to other islands,” https://goo.gl/maps/7c4HzkPPd9d9FP5J7

All the Americas together are about 18 million sq. miles.

All the areas of Libya and Asia together are about 18 million sq. miles.

Answer: When Plato said that the island-continent that held Atlantis was larger than Asia and Libya put together, he was referring to all the Americas together as an island-continent. He also referred to the Americas together as the boundless continent. The landmass he was referring to his quote. It was not the small island of Atlantis Plato was describing.  North America was the continent of Atlantis.

Quote

Later, you will learn about the small island of Atlantis. Also, the royal palace sat on a hill in the city of Atlantis. It had three moats around it. Also, this hill was mistranslated as a mountain. That hill, which is still in place today, caused confusion. Remember, Plato had no maps of the Americas. But you

do.

Later you will learn that Rojack makes this up and presents them as facts with NO evidence at all, you will also learn that any attempt to prove him wrong will go unanswered and that he disregards everything Plato says about Atlantis with an attitude of "Im right and you wrong". 

Other things you will learn is that any logical debate with Rojack will be disregarded altogether and he will carry on peddling the same nonsense regardless of what is presented to him. 

However you WILL learn from some very smart and logical people on the flawed nature of Rojacks approach and the facts that prove Rojacks wishful thinking wrong. 

 

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Does anyone else get the impression that "Rojack' may be another "test flight" of AI text composition?

Be aware. Be very aware,

.

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1 hour ago, Swede said:

Does anyone else get the impression that "Rojack' may be another "test flight" of AI text composition?

Be aware. Be very aware,

.

I said a few pages ago he acts like a spambot. :blink:

.......ooohhhh...While I have you on the line. Nathan Chasing Horse, one of Crowdog's AIM pets was caught using and abusing his bliss bunnies.....:no:

But what plastic shaman doesn't except the ones that are pedophiles? :hmm:

 

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12 hours ago, Rojack said:

 

Atlantis Has Been Found!

Hello New Comers,

Help us Solve this Great World-Wide Mystery!

What’s going on! I have searched Plato’s story of Atlantis and made a  deduction that North America was the continent of Atlantis.  I will present the information for your review and discussion: I will ask a question, show Plato’s text, and show what I believe is the answer to that question. Let’s go back and study Plato’s language. However, some of the language has changed over time. However, most of the research information needed to solve the mystery is presented in this series of brief articles? You may have to review some the info more than once.

Question: Where was Atlantis?

Plato: “and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together and was the way to other islands,” https://goo.gl/maps/7c4HzkPPd9d9FP5J7

All the Americas together are about 18 million sq. miles.

All the areas of Libya and Asia together are about 18 million sq. miles.

Answer: When Plato said that the island-continent that held Atlantis was larger than Asia and Libya put together, he was referring to all the Americas together as an island-continent. He also referred to the Americas together as the boundless continent. The landmass he was referring to his quote. It was not the small island of Atlantis Plato was describing.  North America was the continent of Atlantis. Later, you will learn about the small island of Atlantis. Also, the royal palace sat on a hill in the city of Atlantis. It had three moats around it. Also, this hill was mistranslated as a mountain. That hill, which is still in place today, caused confusion. Remember, Plato had no maps of the Americas. But you do.

Try again. Size of Plato's alleged Atlantis: 

Greek Stadion > Ptolemaic or Attic Stadion > 184.9 Meters > 606.6 feet rounded to 607

Center Isle = 5 stadia diameter (2 1/2 stadia radius) + Water ring (1 stadia) + Land ring (2 stadia) + Water ring (2 stadia) + Land ring (3 stadia) + Water ring (3 stadia) = 13.5 stadia radius = 1.55 miles radius or 3.1 miles in diameter.

Central Plain, containing the center isle: 3000 stadia X 2000 stadia = circa 345 miles X 230 miles = 79,350 square miles

Ditch surrounding the central plain: 10,000 stadia = circa 462 miles X 285 miles = 131,670 square miles*


* Based on Plato’s own details if the ditch surrounded the entirety of Atlantis then it WOULD NOT be significantly larger than the central plain as given above, if however it only surrounded ¾ of Atlantis then it WOULD NOT have been any larger than the above size of the ditch.

In NEITHER case are the Americas, nor their sizes, relevant to the discussion.

cormac

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Learning about Atlantis is slow-going, but we are making progress. Let's keep the discussion going. Thanks for your input.

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2 hours ago, Rojack said:

Learning about Atlantis is slow-going, but we are making progress. Let's keep the discussion going. Thanks for your input.

No, it’s really not. Plato gives one ALL the information they need to determine whether or not his Atlantis existed as written. 
 

cormac

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3 hours ago, Rojack said:

Learning about Atlantis is slow-going, but we are making progress. Let's keep the discussion going. Thanks for your input.

If the whole island of Atlantis sank into the sea/ocean, why is anyone expecting it to still be seen above the water?

The word Plato uses is nesos. It does not mean continent, it doesn’t literally even mean island.

It means peninsular. Like the Peloponese in Greece. Pelops peninsular. Some peninsulars can appear to be islands or interpreted as islands but never a continent. (Going back to one of your early posts, as I just started on this thread.)

I am an Atlantologist…lol….aren’t I boys, probably half the reason they are over Atlantis threads. BUT I am interested in all thoughts on it, I still seek answers.

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11 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

If the whole island of Atlantis sank into the sea/ocean, why is anyone expecting it to still be seen above the water?

The word Plato uses is nesos. It does not mean continent, it doesn’t literally even mean island.

It means peninsular. Like the Peloponese in Greece. Pelops peninsular. Some peninsulars can appear to be islands or interpreted as islands but never a continent. (Going back to one of your early posts, as I just started on this thread.)

I am an Atlantologist…lol….aren’t I boys, probably half the reason they are over Atlantis threads. BUT I am interested in all thoughts on it, I still seek answers.

First of all thanks for that valuable information. Here is what I Believe: Since Plato did not have a map, he was just as confused as we are about, what is an Island? He call all the Americas together a boundless continent, a whole continent, and ( SA) the opposite continent. This means that it is the terrain features that makes the difference. We have to make the language fit the terrain. You may have to read through the story a few times to get to this point. From this point onward, You can match the plain of Atlantis to the Florida Plain. That is where you will find  the small island of Atlantis.

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13 minutes ago, Rojack said:

First of all thanks for that valuable information. Here is what I Believe: Since Plato did not have a map, he was just as confused as we are about, what is an Island? He call all the Americas together a boundless continent, a whole continent, and ( SA) the opposite continent. This means that it is the terrain features that makes the difference. We have to make the language fit the terrain. You may have to read through the story a few times to get to this point. From this point onward, You can match the plain of Atlantis to the Florida Plain. That is where you will find  the small island of Atlantis.

Plato wasn’t confused about anything, least of all a story he made up, especially since he stated exactly where his Atlantis was IN FRONT OF THE PILLARS OF HERCULES and sufficiently so that upon its destruction it prevented entrance to/exit from the Mediterranean. The Americas have never been that close within human history. 
 

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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14 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

No, it’s really not. Plato gives one ALL the information they need to determine whether or not his Atlantis existed as written. 
 

cormac

My conclusions to it all is this….if I had a time machine I’d go back and ask him.

But since I don’t, the closest I can get is Aristotle, who was close to him, who said Plato made it up.

I find Pythagorean fractions in his explanation of the sizes of the rings and island. So, I’m going it might be mathematical equations of an old Druidic/hmm Celtic, Greek story that Plato is telling us…creation is the main gist of Timaeus, with Pythagorean numbers…

He tells us the people who were in the war, or at least, people who remembered this and named their children these names, Eritchthonius  etc….earthquakes, sinking from hubris.

He mentions much of this in The Laws. His ideas for this story can be found there. he be,Ives that over and over the metals sank into the Earth at these cataclysms and were found again, renewed to be used again, a couple start cycle of death and renewed life…I believe the island did not exist as some imagine, a lost city still to be found today…it was an overlapping of times and stories Plato knew, encompasses Thera and before to Gades, Bulls, Libya, lost knowledge, lost writing, the Contest of Athena and Poseidon, the death of Socrates, in a conglomeration of half truths and philosophy, blended to create not only a “Biblical” lesson, don’t get too big for your boots, a Pythagorean lesson, the recall of theorems and Celtic, Druidic influenced religion, within the numbers used and a philosophical lesson in a riddle…..What did Zeus spake? 

Edited by The Puzzler
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22 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Plato wasn’t confused about anything, least of all a story he made up, especially since he stated exactly where his Atlantis was IN FRONT OF THE PILLARS OF HERCULES and sufficiently so that upon its destruction it prevented entrance to/exit from the Mediterranean. The Americas have never been that close within human history. 
 

cormac

22 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Plato wasn’t confused about anything, least of all a story he made up, especially since he stated exactly where his Atlantis was IN FRONT OF THE PILLARS OF HERCULES and sufficiently so that upon its destruction it prevented entrance to/exit from the Mediterranean. The Americas have never been that close within human history. 
 

cormac

I cannot out of everywhere seem to accept the Americas as Atlantis, even in my fantasy land. 

Edited by The Puzzler
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2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

My conclusions to it all is this….if I had a time machine I’d go back and ask him.

...... He [Plato] tells us the people who were in the war, or at least, people who remembered this and named their children these names, Eritchthonius  etc….earthquakes, sinking from hubris.

 

Puzzler, 

Plato says that previous generations of Greeks had remembered those mythical details in a foggy way.  But the Egyptians had kept contemporary records, and offered to help Solon understand what Egyptian deeds had actually occurred in the time of Greece's mythical Erichthonius, etc.   

I previously covered this part of Plato's Atlantis theme here:  https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/357118-georgios-díaz-montexano-atlantis/page/6/#comment-7392334

 

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Question: Where was the island of Atlantis?

Plato: “And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.”

Answer: Plato used the terms “island, continent, and island-continent” interchangeably. He was referring to North America, Central America, and South America together as a boundless island continent. Later, you will find that he also referred to the Americas as the whole continent. North America was what Plato called the island-continent of Atlantis. A small island in the city was also called Atlantis. Knowing that information makes decoding lest confusing. If you can translate Greek to English, you are likely to better understand the languages and the errors Plato made. https://goo.gl/maps/qc5H3vzXhKj86ms38

Question: Where was the city of Atlantis?

Answer: The City of Atlantis and the royal city were on the Florida Plain.

Question: Where is the small island of Atlantis?

Answer: The small island of Atlantis is in the city of Atlantis. It has three canals around it.  By the way, the small island is triangular, not circular. The canals are straight, not circular.

Question: Where is the hill that held the royal castle?

Answer: The hill that held the royal castle is in the top righthand corner of the small triangular island. This hill once had three moats around it.

Question: Where is the plain of Atlantis?

Answer: The plain of Atlantis is now the Florida Plain. Florida is flat and even.

Question: Where is the great ditch Plato described?

Answer: Part of the ditch is now the Indian River.

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6 minutes ago, Rojack said:

 

Question: Where was the island of Atlantis?

Plato: “And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.”

Answer: Plato used the terms “island, continent, and island-continent” interchangeably. He was referring to North America, Central America, and South America together as a boundless island continent. Later, you will find that he also referred to the Americas as the whole continent. North America was what Plato called the island-continent of Atlantis. A small island in the city was also called Atlantis. Knowing that information makes decoding lest confusing. If you can translate Greek to English, you are likely to better understand the languages and the errors Plato made. https://goo.gl/maps/qc5H3vzXhKj86ms38

Question: Where was the city of Atlantis?

Answer: The City of Atlantis and the royal city were on the Florida Plain.

Question: Where is the small island of Atlantis?

Answer: The small island of Atlantis is in the city of Atlantis. It has three canals around it.  By the way, the small island is triangular, not circular. The canals are straight, not circular.

Question: Where is the hill that held the royal castle?

Answer: The hill that held the royal castle is in the top righthand corner of the small triangular island. This hill once had three moats around it.

Question: Where is the plain of Atlantis?

Answer: The plain of Atlantis is now the Florida Plain. Florida is flat and even.

Question: Where is the great ditch Plato described?

Answer: Part of the ditch is now the Indian River.

What a load of horse****e. 
 

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

What a load of horse****e. 
 

cormac

More like goat vomit.

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Just now, Hanslune said:

More like goat vomit.

Either one speaks to the level of “research” performed by Rojack. Incompetence at its finest IMO. 
 

cormac

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48 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Either one speaks to the level of “research” performed by Rojack. Incompetence at its finest IMO. 
 

cormac

As a summary statement, entirely too "complimentary" (!). Then again, we do need to follow obscenity guidelines...

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede
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On 2/7/2023 at 7:07 PM, Rojack said:

Learning about Atlantis is slow-going, but we are making progress. Let's keep the discussion going. Thanks for your input.

Learning? Why yes, you should try that sometime.

"We"? To date, you would not appear to have made any perceptible degree of progress.

.

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10 hours ago, atalante said:

Puzzler, 

Plato says that previous generations of Greeks had remembered those mythical details in a foggy way.  But the Egyptians had kept contemporary records, and offered to help Solon understand what Egyptian deeds had actually occurred in the time of Greece's mythical Erichthonius, etc.   

I previously covered this part of Plato's Atlantis theme here:  https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/357118-georgios-díaz-montexano-atlantis/page/6/#comment-7392334

 

That was interesting You Tube. Georgios always delivers. Good details, I took notes thanks. 

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11 hours ago, atalante said:

Puzzler, 

Plato says that previous generations of Greeks had remembered those mythical details in a foggy way.  But the Egyptians had kept contemporary records, and offered to help Solon understand what Egyptian deeds had actually occurred in the time of Greece's mythical Erichthonius, etc.   

I previously covered this part of Plato's Atlantis theme here:  https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/357118-georgios-díaz-montexano-atlantis/page/6/#comment-7392334

 

I think the war is the contest for Athens between Poseidon and Athena because of the names mentioned of men in the war. 
It matches also in that a Poseidon led people, possibly Libyan influenced Mycenaeans…against Athens, Athena, also described as Libyan in some mythology. The whole story IMO comes from Libya actually, into Sais via priests who did know an event (1700-1500BC)  of this hostile attempt to over throw the Pelasgic (Cycladic) Athenian culture by the Hellenic (European mainland) Mycenaeans but they never really did. Athens won but the event sank from memory at that time. The striking of Poseidon’s staff indicates an earthquake may have occurred simultaneously, with the earthquakes that preceded Thera and the Acropolis shows signs of this. I believe the sources found can indicate that Mycenaean royalty came from Spain. The myths tell us the Atrieds (Agamemnon etc)  were not Greek. Buildings and tombs of same type are older from Spain.
This event, in myth led to democracy within the Athenian constitution. Which I believe was Platos driving force behind the story.

Edited by The Puzzler
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5 hours ago, Rojack said:

 

Question: Where was the island of Atlantis?

Plato: “And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.”

Answer: Plato used the terms “island, continent, and island-continent” interchangeably. He was referring to North America, Central America, and South America together as a boundless island continent. Later, you will find that he also referred to the Americas as the whole continent. North America was what Plato called the island-continent of Atlantis. A small island in the city was also called Atlantis. Knowing that information makes decoding lest confusing. If you can translate Greek to English, you are likely to better understand the languages and the errors Plato made. https://goo.gl/maps/qc5H3vzXhKj86ms38

Question: Where was the city of Atlantis?

Answer: The City of Atlantis and the royal city were on the Florida Plain.

Question: Where is the small island of Atlantis?

Answer: The small island of Atlantis is in the city of Atlantis. It has three canals around it.  By the way, the small island is triangular, not circular. The canals are straight, not circular.

Question: Where is the hill that held the royal castle?

Answer: The hill that held the royal castle is in the top righthand corner of the small triangular island. This hill once had three moats around it.

Question: Where is the plain of Atlantis?

Answer: The plain of Atlantis is now the Florida Plain. Florida is flat and even.

Question: Where is the great ditch Plato described?

Answer: Part of the ditch is now the Indian River.

What small island is triangular? The original mound Plato says Poseidon built, that he enclosed in the canals…? And these canals are straight, not circular. You do realise you have thrown everything out the window here…?

One end of the island of Atlantis looks over Gadeira, seemingly Gades, if we imagine the island being where he says, in front of the Pillars of Heracles….so the continent they can get around to from Atlantis by island hopping would be Europe or Africa….imo

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1 hour ago, The Puzzler said:

I think the war is the contest for Athens between Poseidon and Athena because of the names mentioned of men in the war. 
It matches also in that a Poseidon led people, possibly Libyan influenced Mycenaeans…against Athens, Athena, also described as Libyan in some mythology. The whole story IMO comes from Libya actually, into Sais via priests who did know an event (1700-1500BC)  of this hostile attempt to over throw the Pelasgic (Cycladic) Athenian culture by the Hellenic (European mainland) Mycenaeans but they never really did. Athens won but the event sank from memory at that time. The striking of Poseidon’s staff indicates an earthquake may have occurred simultaneously, with the earthquakes that preceded Thera and the Acropolis shows signs of this. I believe the sources found can indicate that Mycenaean royalty came from Spain. The myths tell us the Atrieds (Agamemnon etc)  were not Greek. Buildings and tombs of same type are older from Spain.
This event, in myth led to democracy within the Athenian constitution. Which I believe was Platos driving force behind the story.

That would not be in evidence. What IS in evidence is that the Mycenaeans are a mixture of native Greek peoples and peoples of either the Eurasian Steppe or Armenia. Needless to say neither of the latter locations has anything to do with Spain. 
 

Quote

Abstract
The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We assembled genome-wide data from nineteen ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. We show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean and most of the remainder from ancient populations like those of the Caucasus3 and Iran. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter-gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia, introduced via a proximal source related to either the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe or Armenia. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

Published in final edited form as:
Nature. 2017 August 10; 548(7666): 214–218. doi:10.1038/nature23310.

Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans

cormac

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3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

That would not be in evidence. What IS in evidence is that the Mycenaeans are a mixture of native Greek peoples and peoples of either the Eurasian Steppe or Armenia. Needless to say neither of the latter locations has anything to do with Spain. 
 

Published in final edited form as:
Nature. 2017 August 10; 548(7666): 214–218. doi:10.1038/nature23310.

Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans

cormac

I think you’re failing to realise I said Mycenaean royalty.  Not the general population. 

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1 minute ago, The Puzzler said:

I think you’re failing to realise I said Mycenaean royalty.  Not the general population. 

Nope as there is no verifiable support for your conjecture. 
 

cormac

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18 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Nope as there is no verifiable support for your conjecture. 
 

cormac

Prehistory: Bronze Age (2,200 – 850 BC)

In Early Bronze Age, the Argar culture developed, in southeast Iberia, a complex social organization, with intensive agricultural and livestock economy.

 

The cist of Herrerías (Cuevas del Almanzora, Almería), is a burial typical of the metal-working groups who inhabited southeast Iberian at Early Bronze. Inside this cist or box formed by 6 stone slabs, the pioneering archaeologist Luis Siret found a skeleton whose arms and legs had been folded against the left side, perhaps to make it easier to bind the corpse. The dead man's grave goods consisted of his weapons, as befitted men of certain social status, and pottery vessels which his relatives had filled with food offerings to ensure his survival.”

http://www.man.es/man/en/exposicion/recorridos-tematicos/arqueologia-muerte/3-cista-herrerias.html

AS for beehive, tholos tombs….

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beehive_tomb

 

In the Chalcolithic period of the Iberian peninsula, beehive tombs appear among other innovative "megalithic" variants, from c. 3000 BCE. They are especially common in southern Spain and Portugal, while in Central Portugal and southeastern France other styles (artificial caves especially) are preferred instead. The civilization of Los Millares and its Bronze Agesuccessor, El Argar, are particularly related to this burial style.[11]

Are you claiming you can find them earlier than 3000BC in Mycenae?

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