Atlantis Explained!

[cormac mac airt]

6 hours ago, Rojack said:

First of all, let me apologize for my lack of education. I certainly don’t pretend to be an expert in composition and logic. I finished high school and took about 36 hours of college courses. I study Atlantis as a hobby and I have developed a theory regarding the location of the island of Atlantis. I try to share this information with  others when I can. According to the answer Hanslune gave, I think I have both the archaeological evidence and the written evidence to support the theory that the island of Atlantis is in a certain location. Please take a few minutes and see if Plato’s description matches the archeological evidence. Take a look at the terrain and read Plato’s description. The first thing you will notice is that the island of Atlantis is triangular, not circular. That is in the description. Im sure you have your own sources but here is a link to Critias online.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

The literature tells you that they bridged-over the three moats and dug three strait canals to form the island of Atlantis. I know it seems odd, but the literature matches the terrain. A partial moat and the hill that held the royal palace are still in place.

https://goo.gl/maps/XyjWctMX83cezTCQ9

Then you can show how Atlantis’ destruction  “in Florida” made entrance to/exit from the Mediterranean impassible, as that’s what Plato says. 
 

cormac

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, Abramelin said:

It was, of course, a rethorical question. But thank you for making it perfectly clear that there were no elephants in Docyabut's version of Atlantis.

These threads about Atlantis are tiresome and fun at the same time.

One of the Unexplained Mysteries...

Based on our current evidence there were no elephants cousins in Europe (other than Cyprus) if I remember  correctly. They may have survived in some dark corner, somewhere, perhaps an isolated island. However, presently nope no mammoths, mastodon or giant llamas .

[Abramelin]

3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27827830/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/did-asteroid-cause-ancient-ny-tsunami/#.WP2Gtek2wzs

More than 2,300 years ago, a tsunami may have hit what is now New York City. The source of the giant wave, say geologists studying the sediments in nearby bodies of water, may have been a 330-foot-wide asteroid.

it could be around  the  same time ,  the 2,500-year-old city buried under flood sediment may belong to lost civilization in Spain ,Atlantis sunk. from a  tsunami to.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/2500-year-old-city-buried-under-flood-sediment-may-belong-lost-civilization-020521

where is the big flood that sunk Atlantis?

 

Again, were there elephants in your Spanish Atlantis?

No, there were none.

Ok, now think again before you claim to have found Atlantis. Don't just believe any sensationalist news item that mentions Atlantis.

Maybe read the next link, as some kind of cure:

https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2019/01/how-the-discovery-of-atlantis-made-big-news-then-faded-away/

Edited October 23, 2020 by Abramelin

[Harte]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:46 PM, Rojack said:

A brief note of explanation will go along with each quote. Now, when you read or reread Plato’s story, you will better understand it.  The City of Atlantis was extremely complex with lots of history behind it. Some of this history caused confusion. For instance, in the early days of Atlantis, the royal palace was on a hill with three moats around it. Later, they bridged over the moats and  dug three large canals around the palace. This left the palace sitting on a small triangular island which is 0.5 miles across. This is the island of Atlantis. Now, all of those terrain features can be found on Google maps. Let’s correct Plato’s quotes.

We will start with the first and biggest and most important mistake in Plato’s literature. Here is the quote from Plato:

“But afterward there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.” [The term Island should be continent.] [Also, you can see from this quote that the idea that Atlantis sunk is only an assumption, not a fact.][The term sea should ocean.]

What you have "found" is variations in translations, which basically is a semantic argument given that "sea" and ocean" were used interchangeably by the time of the translation you quote.

Here is another translation:

Quote

and one grievous day and night befell them, when the whole body of your warriors was swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished; wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearchable, being blocked up by the shoal mud which the island created as it settled down.”

As you can see, it actually says "island." This is the translation of the word "νῆσος" used by Plato. Below is the translation along with various other usages of the same word from other texts:

You will excuse me for not believing Plato meant "continent" when he used "νῆσος," as I seriously doubt anyone in Ancient Greece referred to the "continents" of the Archipelago.

Plato also uses the word "θαλάττης," which actually translates as "sea." It has a relationship with the Greek word " Θάλασσα" in that it is the same word, with the stem changed in the Attic idiom:

In the second usage of the word "sea" from the quote, Plato uses the word "πέλαγος," which also translates as "sea." However, in that case, the word used indicates a different view of the sea, as in how we refer to a vacation to the sea (the first usage - more generalized) and how we refer to the wide sea itself, which is why the translator used a different word than "sea" there. He used the word "ocean," which in Greek is ωκεανός (okeanos.) That term doesn't actually appear in the Ancient Greek version of that passage. The translator used it to try and remain true to the way Plato phrased it, because we don't have nearly as many words for "sea" as the Ancient Greeks did.
Finally, here is the same passage as written by Plato in the original Greek:

‘ [25δ] ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς χαλεπῆς ἐπελθούσης, τό τε παρ᾽ ὑμῖν μάχιμον πᾶν ἁθρόον ἔδυ κατὰ γῆς, ἥ τε Ἀτλαντὶς νῆσος ὡσαύτως κατὰ τῆς θαλάττης δῦσα ἠφανίσθη: διὸ καὶ νῦν ἄπορον καὶ ἀδιερεύνητον γέγονεν τοὐκεῖ πέλαγος, πηλοῦ κάρτα βραχέος ἐμποδὼν ὄντος, ὃν ἡ νῆσος ἱζομένη παρέσχετο.’

The above took me all of five minutes. I don't take time any longer to fool with fools. You have a VERY long way to go before you can speak about Atlantis to this board with anything resembling intelligence, so I will leave it at that until you (or someone else) with at least a modicum of capability pops up with something worth reading.

Harte

[ShadowSot]

7 hours ago, 27vet said:

There was probably an Atlantis, just in a place we have not, and will not be able to discover within out lifespan.

Why do you think so? 

[Abramelin]

23 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27827830/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/did-asteroid-cause-ancient-ny-tsunami/#.WP2Gtek2wzs

More than 2,300 years ago, a tsunami may have hit what is now New York City. The source of the giant wave, say geologists studying the sediments in nearby bodies of water, may have been a 330-foot-wide asteroid.

it could be around  the  same time ,  the 2,500-year-old city buried under flood sediment may belong to lost civilization in Spain ,Atlantis sunk. from a  tsunami to.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/2500-year-old-city-buried-under-flood-sediment-may-belong-lost-civilization-020521

where is the big flood that sunk Atlantis?

 

In 2004 a tsunami hit part of Atjeh, which is the northern part of Sumatra. Many other countries and islands around and in the Indian Ocean were hit.

Atjeh was devastated, but it did not disappear beneath the waves despite it being very flat.

[docyabut2]

A U.S.-led research team may have finally located the lost city of Atlantis, the legendary metropolis believed swamped by a tsunami thousands of years ago in mud flats in southern Spain.

“This is the power of tsunamis,” head researcher Richard Freund told Reuters.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tsunami-atlantis-idUSTRE72B2JR20110312

Greek philosopher Plato wrote about Atlantis some 2,600 years ago, describing it as “an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Hercules,”

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by docyabut2

[Abramelin]

I wonder why I even respond to your posts, sigh...

You won't even bother to read what other people post, you just vent air, and don't give a damn if you contradict yourself or Plato.

 

[docyabut2]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

I wonder why I even respond to your posts, sigh...

You won't even bother to read what other people post, you just vent air, and don't give a damn if you contradict yourself or Plato.

 

Its so simple in finding Atlantis and where it was located and not going through it all again:)

[Abramelin]

Was Donana Park an island in front of the Pillars of Hercules?

No, it was a delta. And not in front of the pillars.

Was it the size of ancient Lybia and Asia combined?

No, it wasn't.

Is it submerged? No, it is still above sealevel.

Did it have elephants roaming around? No, there weren't any at that time.

And so on, and so on....

 

[Abramelin]

You behave like an internet troll.

Well, it's either that, or you have some other problem...

Do you still remember you were utterly convinced that Atlantis was nothing else but Minoan Crete? And trolling this site with it?

You should get aquainted with Mario Dantes; the two of you would be a perfect couple.

 

[Swede]

22 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Based on our current evidence there were no elephants cousins in Europe (other than Cyprus) if I remember  correctly. They may have survived in some dark corner, somewhere, perhaps an isolated island. However, presently nope no mammoths, mastodon or giant llamas .

You are likely thinking of the Wrangel Island recoveries (circa 4000 BP) or the St.Paul Island recoveries (circa 5600 BP). In both cases we are dealing with Arctic refugia. Hardly a Mediterranean environment.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

56 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Its so simple in finding Atlantis and where it was located and not going through it all again:)

Yes, so simple you seem to find Atlantis wherever you look!

[ShadowSot]

4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Yes, so simple you seem to find Atlantis wherever you look!

Atlantis was like McDonald's, it had a franchise everywhere. 

[Swede]

21 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You behave like an internet troll.

Well, it's either that, or you have some other problem...

Do you still remember you were utterly convinced that Atlantis was nothing else but Minoan Crete? And trolling this site with it?

You should get aquainted with Mario Dantes; the two of you would be a perfect couple.

 

Abe: Just a personal note here. Docy is a quite elderly woman who has dealt with a number of medical issues. While her position may not be well supported, consider that her engagement on these pages, and the incorporated mental stimulation, may have value in regards to her quality of life in her latter years.

.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Just now, ShadowSot said:

Atlantis was like McDonald's, it had a franchise everywhere. 

I’m lovin’ it.

[docyabut2]

I still think this could be Atlantis:)

[docyabut2]

Looks like this is the real Atlantis with all the evidences of the location.

https://www.ancient.eu/Gades/

 

 

Plato

  The war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them.

To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

[docyabut2]

Georgeos Diaz  finds the war,

[docyabut2]

 

[docyabut2]

 trying to explained that the country gades  was not connected  to the other islands in Plato`s time      

[docyabut2]

 

I remember reading, ancient  Gades was a small island, thats where a  shoal filled it in and connected it to the lower island . 

as it all fill in making  it all a peninsula

 I wish I could find that article again   

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

You are likely thinking of the Wrangel Island recoveries (circa 4000 BP) or the St.Paul Island recoveries (circa 5600 BP). In both cases we are dealing with Arctic refugia. Hardly a Mediterranean environment.

Nah, I was remembering these fellows,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dwarf_elephant

....but they appear to have been done in well before 2,500 BCE

 

 

[docyabut2]

Shoals anyone?

This is precisely why Plato used the word Pelagos for the Atlantic, and not Okeanos. And the reason for it was to emphasize a local and particular part of the Atlantic ocean, just as discussed earlier in the thread, why certain parts of the Mediterranean Thalassa are identified as pelagos. 

Plato's Timaeus: "For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way;"   Directly in front of the Pillars of Heracles, the only shoals to be found are the ones that run along the eastern seaboard of the USA.

Cape Hatteras is a bend in Hatteras Island, one of the long thin barrier islands that make up the Outer Banks. It is the site where the two great basins of the East Coast meet.^[2] The cape's shoals are known as Diamond Shoals.

Barrier islands are dynamic systems that migrate under the influence of changing sea levels, storms, waves, tides, and longshore currents. ... In the United States, barrier islands occur along gently sloping sandy coastlines such as those along the Gulf Coast and the Atlantic Coast as far north as Long Island, New York.

Barrier islands, sometimes called barrier spits, are found on coastlines all over the world, but are most noticeable along the eastern coast of North America, where they extend from New England down the Atlantic Coast, around the Gulf of Mexico and south to Mexico.  

The four nations with the most barrier island miles are the United States (24 percent), Mexico (11 percent), Russia (8 percent), and Australia (7 percent). Nearly a quarter of all barrier islands are found in the Arctic.

https://landsat.gsfc.nasa.gov/world-inventory-of-barrier-islands-jumps-by-one-third/

 

 

I remember reading, ancient  Gades was a small island, thats where a  shoal filled it in and connected it to the lower island . 

as it fill in made it all a peninsula

Edited September 7, 2019 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

I don`nt know why  people keep pointing ever which way out  for the peoples of Atlantis ,when it all points to around Gades

the once island of Gades