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Group of doctors claim pandemic is a sham

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InconceivableThoughts
53 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It's the

Well it won't kill me so screw those it will

Attitude that I find concerning. 

If thats how you take it then so be it. Can you not see the deaths from other respiratory illnesses are in most cases above covid? And yes I find the lives of the youth more important than the ones of the old. Cynical maybe. Correct absolutely. If you see it other wise your old and biased.

Edited by InconceivableThoughts
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InconceivableThoughts
10 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Thank you! Well said,

I have seen some try to play that a person was gonna die anyway and downplay or even remove covid from the equation, sure they had cronic perhaps even terminal pre-existing conditions that very well might have one day killed them but covid jumped in and as you point out cut in some cases years off their lives, but no way can we let fear control us and dare blame covid for that,  you fear monger.

Actually his or her citation has literally nothing to do with covid.

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Arbenol
15 minutes ago, tmcom said:

Agreed everyone is going to get it, so it is worth suffering with masks and lockdowns in the meantime for a 30% improvement in not getting it, (unless you take it, (vaccine) for the rest of your life you will get it)?

As in all things, the doctors who don't agree, shouldn't get life in prison and their rights taken away, when a warning would do?

:(

I never said everyone is going to get it. 

What doctors have got life in prison? 

Wearing a mask and observing sensible precautions (eg handwashing and distancing) can, when observed by everyone, actually prevent lock down. Ironic that those bleating on about their freedoms being infringed (how the hell does wearing a mask infringe on your liberty?) are actually causing real infringements on people's freedom in the form of lock downs. 

I guess all societies have their parasites that think concepts like civic responsibility don't apply to them. 

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psyche101
8 minutes ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

If thats how you take it then so be it. Can you not see the deaths from other respiratory illnesses are in most cases above covid? And yes I find the lives of the youth more important than the ones of the old. Cynical maybe. Correct absolutely. If you see it other wise your old and biased.

Other respiratory diseases have not killed more people than covid. That's simply not true. 

I'm taking it like that because that's what your saying, and not even denying it. You're basically saying if you have lived over 50 years and aren't in debt, you should die to allow young people to prosper. 

Personally, I'd suggest you see someone about that. That's pretty wrong on many levels.

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

Actually his or her citation has literally nothing to do with covid.

Perhaps not directly; but, it gives an idea of how widespread cardiovascular disease is in the USA.  I'm guessing the figures would be similar in many western nations.

So with around half of adults having cardiovascular, can you quantify the "healthy people"?  

Maybe you'll find your numbers at the Society for Healthy, Immune To Pandemic, Outstandingly Strong Titans.

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toast
6 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

For some reason i think what you just said was that economy will turn towards healthcare but when there is no more need for that health care we will be top heavy in that department. Leaving all others bankrupt . Is that basically what you said?

No. What I said was that the/an economy might get down to the bottom because of an uncontrolled increasing level of infected people. Such scenario will have a negative impact on all areas of the daily life. The health industry might experience a short term benefit but when it will reach the point that the expenditure will exceed the income in a disproportionately fashion, then the system will collapse.

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Setton
7 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

I'm starting to understand why most of you think the way you do. Your old and have money. So of course your afraid of this virus. Of course you could careless about the economy , you have all your money already. You guys are a bunch of biased over opinionated jokes. You guys are not right . I showed you the numbers. Get over yourselves.

28, working class parents, still renting.

You want to try another theory?

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bee
18 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Your all over MSM, haven't you cottoned on to the fact MSM only like pushing the stories which continue with the doom and gloom. the study is not even peer reviewed instead just rushed to grab a headline.

With respect to anti-bodies fading, this has been discussed on this thread before as other studies have mentioned it. this is normal and is not a problem provided the body retains the ability to rapidly manufacture new ones now that it's had prior experience with the virus and stored it in the immune system's "memory".

I haven't read this paper, but in the previous news reports the alarmism came from the person writing the popular news report not understanding what the study was actually saying or trying to measure.

If you check most people's blood for antibodies against chickenpox there won't be any (assuming they had chickenpox as a child). Those people are still immune to chickenpox as their immune system retains a 'memory' of the chickenpox virus and if they are reinfected their body rapidly produces huge numbers of antibodies.

this is why we see a 99.4% survival rate in 80yrs+ and 99.8% survival rate 0yrs to 80yrs. in Covid. Human immunity millions of years in the making. isn't it marvellous.

 

 

 

thanks....

one of the things that the MSM (and foot soldiers on and off the internet) are using at the moment to scare people and to strengthen support for the draconian measures forced on the General Populations around the world (in varying degrees).....

is headlines etc  about the drop of anti bodies connected to coronavirus / Covid 19 / SARS-CoV-2..... but they try and avoid explaining about how the initial increase in anti bodies is only part of the story... and as you say it is the memory of the virus stored in the immune system ...... that offers long term protection and is the basis for herd immunity....

 

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bee
11 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

Your very selective when it comes to my post while you neglect most out of my post. Why is that? You seem very argumentative . I will not carry on a conversation with someone so childish.

 

that saying.....

lies, damned lies and statistics... is more true than ever with this whole coronavirus thing - 

and so much of it seems to be Smoke and Mirrors... and broad perceptions... it's a shame that civility disappears when taking about it - not just for groups of regular people on forums but also within the Medical / health / science areas... where professionals are turning on each other rather than allowing exploration of ideas etc...

 

 

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Setton
7 minutes ago, bee said:

... it's a shame that civility disappears when taking about it - 

I agree.

There are few things more uncivil than putting people's lives at risk because someone on YouTube made you think you were special.

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bee
8 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

Not enough to shutdown the economy. I'm sure driving has worse chances then that.


This virus..... while a nasty one (but given the chance herd immunity will sort it out..)

seems to have been compartmentalized for many people who aren't interested in the Big Picture and the damaging effects the (so called) cure is having on individuals and society...

Elderly and old people who are being forcible separated from the rest of their family are suffering and given the choice many (most?) would probably prefer to live their lives and take the chance that if they did get the virus they would be one of the larger % that survives,,,and then has a level of immunity...

Just one example talking to someone the other day... they and their wife had their first baby 2 months ago and the grandparents still haven't been able to meet them....

and another ..... when the heavy lockdown measures were in force in the UK... my neighbours.. a couple who were in the vulnerable category ..... said they would be better off dead than separated from their family like they were - they found the whole situation depressing and soul destroying...

 

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bee

 

The importance of herd immunity solving the basic problem and allowing life to continue as normal... seems to be one of the main areas of resistance for the MSM (and others)..... including some professionals...

in this short video...

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

one of the main signatories and co author of

The Great Barrington Declaration...

discusses the issue of herd immunity...

 

  

Quote

Co-author of the Great Barrington Declaration Professor Sunetra Gupta has said a new study that suggests coronavirus immunity could only last a few months has not changed her mind on herd immunity. Research from Imperial College London showed immunity was “waning quite rapidly”, which could lead to an increased risk of reinfection.

Speaking with talkRADIO's Ian Collins, Professor Gupta said scientists with differing views had been staging "ad hominem attacks" over the issue. "I do think that universities should actually come up with a set of regulations and recommendations for how people should behave on platforms such as Twitter.”

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bee
7 hours ago, Arbenol said:

That can be said for any cause of death. We're all gonna die - the only question is what gets us first.

 

true.... but there is also a 'living death'..... and elderly people who are more lonely and isolated now than ever before are suffering being separated from their families - locked away - for their own good whether they like it or not...

what's happening is cruel...to families especially.. not just the elderly but children denied normal family like and life in a normal society..

take for example...

one of my Mom's friends that she had when she lived in Wales.... her son and daughter and family were devastated and very angry that they couldn't be with their mother for the last days /  hours of her life... the police even got involved .... 

they will never get over that... but are trying to remember happier times and heal from what happened to their Mom and how she was alone (in a Care Home) as she died when they could have given her some comfort... in her confused state of mind she probably felt abandoned by her family not realizing they wanted to be with her but were stopped...

 

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LightAngel

@bee:

Thank you for being brave enough to post this topic! 

I looked at this from all sides since the beginning, and I didn't understand why the Danish press didn't do the same.

However, this morning I was positively surprised because the Danish media finally interviewed a Danish professor in virology who also question what is going on, just like I do.

 

No matter what the truth is, then we should always protect the vulnerable and act responsibly.

This has always been my opinion! 

 

 

 

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the13bats
19 minutes ago, bee said:

 

The importance of herd immunity solving the basic problem and allowing life to continue as normal... seems to be one of the main areas of resistance for the MSM (and others)..... including some professionals...

in this short video...

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

one of the main signatories and co author of

The Great Barrington Declaration...

discusses the issue of herd immunity...

 

 

So bee does this mean you plan to get deliberately infected to further herd immunity,

Seems its what sheep would do.

Or are you all talk CT and propaganda?

.

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bee
On 10/28/2020 at 8:03 AM, bee said:

 

The World Doctors Alliance web page...

https://worlddoctorsalliance.com/

An independent non-profit alliance of doctors, nurses, healthcare professionals and staff around the world who have united in the wake of the Covid-19 response chapter to share experiences with a view to ending all lockdowns and related damaging measures and to re-establish universal health determinance of psychological and physical wellbeing for all humanity.


one of the articles under the 'news' headline features a Dr Michael Yeadon...

Dr Mike Yeadon has a degree in biochemistry and toxicology and a research-based PhD in respiratory pharmacology. He has spent over 30 years leading new medicines research in some of the world’s largest pharmaceutical companies, leaving Pfizer in 2011 as Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory. That was the most senior research position in this field in Pfizer. Since leaving Pfizer, Dr Yeadon has founded his own biotech company, Ziarco, which was sold to the worlds biggest drug company, Novartis, in 2017.

TWITTER THREAD HERE

What SAGE Has Got Wrong

 

on his Twitter thread he puts forward the data / argument that (in UK) the Pandemic is essentially over and herd immunity threshold reached..

(click on the tweet to see it bigger on Twitter site...)
 

 

IMO.... herd immunity was being built up at the end of last year (when I think I had it - and my Mom - and when it swept through the town where I live in the Midlands...)

In a way we were lucky round here that it started and happened at the end of last year (Oct / Nov / Dec)....and early 2020.. before lockdowns could slow it down - and prolong and drag out the whole process... I was spared the stress and anxiety that people getting it now (the tail end of the seasonal epidemic / pandemic...?)......... have to go through...... I was pretty ill but just went through it and got over it like I would any virus although it was probably the nastiest virus I've ever had (that I can remember)...

You won't see any official back up for what I've said above but having talked to lots of people about it round here - I think that's what happened..

 

I don't worry about catching it - and I'm pretty confident that my Mom who is 87 probably has immunity as well... I go along with all the government guidelines anyway and Mom is in a Care Home -

 

4 minutes ago, the13bats said:

So bee does this mean you plan to get deliberately infected to further herd immunity,

Seems its what sheep would do.

Or are you all talk CT and propaganda?

.

 

see what I said at the end of the post above... I think I have already had it - and my Mom - and many people in the town where I live...

 

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Essan
4 hours ago, Arbenol said:

Wearing a mask and observing sensible precautions (eg handwashing and distancing) can, when observed by everyone, actually prevent lock down. Ironic that those bleating on about their freedoms being infringed (how the hell does wearing a mask infringe on your liberty?) are actually causing real infringements on people's freedom in the form of lock downs. 

I guess all societies have their parasites that think concepts like civic responsibility don't apply to them. 

:tu:

Exactly the point I keep making.   We are not going to go back to normality whilst the virus continues to spread and we do not have a widely available effective vaccine.  So, until then, we do everything we can to reduce transmission and thus protect our liberties and our economy.

Those ignoring the (quite reasonable) rules on masks and social distancing are the ones directly causing lockdowns.   But hey, they don't care cos they ain't gonna have to pay and they can just blame someone else for all the hardships they are inflicting in the rest of us :(   

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Essan
24 minutes ago, bee said:

 

true.... but there is also a 'living death'..... and elderly people who are more lonely and isolated now than ever before are suffering being separated from their families - locked away - for their own good whether they like it or not...

what's happening is cruel...to families especially.. not just the elderly but children denied normal family like and life in a normal society..

 

 

And that's why we all have a social responsibility to do all we can to reduce the spread of the virus.   So that such people are not separated and left alone.

Every time you refuse to wear a mask or ignore social distancing rules you are prolonging their misery.

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the13bats
6 minutes ago, bee said:

 

 

see what I said at the end of the post above... I think I have already had it - and my Mom - and many people in the town where I live...

 

Oh, you should be tested to be sure take the guessing out, 2020 has sucked ive had far more bad days than good this year and covid prevents my music show i look forward to if theres a plus side i dont think ive had it.

I want to clearly that i do not believe any one source when it comes to news or in this case covid, and a lot of pieces do not line up, it doesnt make sense, where i dont trust one news source i also do not place much merits in theories presented CT style, a handful of unknown drs say covid is a sham isnt all that credible to me,

I would have placed far more integrity in this thread had it not had all the little covid used to further political stances and presented a bit less tabloid CT in its subject line, more posts like your last few, but see im forgetting your true agenda here.

Im not a person who scoffs and thinks oh well if i die so what , if i take family and others with me so what, better than living in fear, we all die, yeah well i wanna put that off as long as i can, if im living in fear for wearing a useless mask around less considerate people thats fine.

So you think covid is a sham, whats next?

Last i saw on my various news feds other countries are locking up again, so they must not think its a sham just yet.

 

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LightAngel
46 minutes ago, the13bats said:

 living 

 

 

 

 

ALL LIVES MATTER - OLD AND YOUNG - BLACK AND WHITE - TALL AND SHORT....ETC!

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdp84hhyL9TK1tP8OoMFb

 

If we start to really care about each other - then we could create paradise on earth!

Just a thought......

 

 

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stereologist
11 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

It is not my fault that you cant see where I changed my narrative from young people dont die to this virus to where it is not serious enough to be put into lockdown. Again I will say young healthy people that die from this are an abnormality. That is clearly shown in the numbers.

And that death is only part of the problem and that as I showed you in two scientific papers a significant number of people that have the infection receive organ damage, even if the case is asymptomatic?

It's not my fault that you push false tales based on whatever you don't know about the virus.

Your claim of this virus not being serious is based on your lack of understanding of the virus. 

The CDC link you posted shows it is a serious matter and yet you once again were dismissive of the evidence.

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stereologist
11 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

Not enough to shutdown the economy. I'm sure driving has worse chances then that.

Again you are demonstrably wrong. Last year the number of driving deaths was under 40,000 in the US while COVID-19 deaths are now over 225,000 in the US and the year is not over as cases are skyrocketing in many parts of the US.

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stereologist
11 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

Now you can see that this argument is subjective. I see the numbers as not alarming at all actually. 

That's just you being dismissive from your position of ignorance of the issues.

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stevewinn
3 hours ago, bee said:

 

thanks....

one of the things that the MSM (and foot soldiers on and off the internet) are using at the moment to scare people and to strengthen support for the draconian measures forced on the General Populations around the world (in varying degrees).....

is headlines etc  about the drop of anti bodies connected to coronavirus / Covid 19 / SARS-CoV-2..... but they try and avoid explaining about how the initial increase in anti bodies is only part of the story... and as you say it is the memory of the virus stored in the immune system ...... that offers long term protection and is the basis for herd immunity....

 

I find it very telling when posters have to post via MSM outlets. Its as though they need to have the original source interpreting for them. I've challenged a poster on here who uses such methods, and no surprise was lost when left to explain without MSM first interpreting it for them. Their further postings can be dismissed.

There are far to many experts at the minute, there must be thousands of studies going on around the world. There's plenty of govt grants going around.

What ive found is a lot of the studies are conflicting, i dont even think any two countries are using the same treatment methods. We know their not even collecting/registering data in the same way. Ie cases, deaths ect...

What i find with all this no anti bodies, or they dont last long. Is how many people have been infected world wide. And yet reinfection numbers are what 6 people worldwide. Its so rare that if someone gets reinfected it makes the news.

With covid19, 80% similar to coronavirus that causes the common Cold i find it hard to believe immunity isn't acquired.

I'd keep an eye on the studies reported by the BMJ, where 6 studies around the world, so good cross section and sample size found immunity acquired via T cells and the bodies ability to create antibodies at short notice.

 

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stereologist
11 hours ago, InconceivableThoughts said:

I'm starting to understand why most of you think the way you do. Your old and have money. So of course your afraid of this virus. Of course you could careless about the economy , you have all your money already. You guys are a bunch of biased over opinionated jokes. You guys are not right . I showed you the numbers. Get over yourselves.

I see you are making up excuses to cover up your failed position which is all an argument from personal ignorance.

All you've done is make arguments based on what appears to be a complete lack of understanding of the issues at play.

You did not show anyone numbers or anything that supports your failed and rather sad arguments. What you did was make a dismissive comment along with a long and no explanation of how that link supports your bumbling commentary.

 

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