Group of doctors claim pandemic is a sham

[stevewinn]

7 hours ago, stereologist said:

No. You are purposely lying. COVID deaths are huge compared to the flu.

If you want to support your lie please show us some evidence. I already posted the damning evidence showing you lied. And this is not the first time you have lied about this.

The poster and I where discussing covid deaths v flu/pneumonia from July. I clearly stated since July, and that is a true statement of fact. im sure in your reply you will have the good grace to retract your allegation of me in your words being a liar. (but i will also now highlight the figures for the year flu/pneumonia v Covid) thank you.

In my post i was referring to July onwards. but i will also now expand to cover the year to week 40. 

• From week one to latest figures week 40. there have been 59,327 Flu/Pneumonia deaths.
• From week one to latest figures week 40. there have been 52,056 Covid deaths.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1010/fig1/datadownload.xlsx

 

 

 

 

[LightAngel]

4 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

 

Intelligent people read and decide for themselves. 

 

 

Yes - It's called common sense.

However, intelligence without a heart is useless.

And I think we can agree about that?!

 

Edit:

By the way, I'm glad you knew I posted the poem for you and your lady before I even told you.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by LightAngel

[Peter B]

5 hours ago, and then said:

I didn't say those losses should be denied.  I've also never said this virus wasn't potentially deadly.  The issue I have is the politically-induced Armageddon-type hysteria about the virus.  The higher fatality rates apparently were a function of the sickest being the first to succumb.  That doesn't mean their deaths didn't matter.  It just seems to be the natural progression of a potentially lethal, novel corona virus.  As I've said many times before, I practice the basic hygiene and I wear a mask in public. I don't do this in an effort to avoid contracting the virus.  I do it because I know I'd struggle mightily if a loved one or even a stranger became ill because I ignored reasonable precautions. I saw some numbers a couple of days ago and if I can recall where I saw them, I'll post it.  The data established that of those who contract Sars-Cov-2,  over 80% said they wore a mask most of the time.  About 4% said they never wore one.  I have a couple of neighbors who struggled with this scourge over the summer and the history they mentioned supports the 80% numbers that acquired the virus in spite of mask wearing.  As for whether or not this viral outbreak technically meets the criteria for an epidemic, I'll defer to others who know what the threshold is.  I don't really care what it's called.  I DO CARE when political HACKS try to weaponize such a tragedy for their own purposes.  FTR, I am not labeling you, I'm referring to the "through the looking glass" media hucksters.  

I'm not aware of any studies that establish the mortality rate for the kind of depression and stress that is a natural extension of illness.  

 

With respect, And Then, I thought it was pretty well established that the purpose of masks wasn't to protect the wearer from catching the virus, but to reduce the chance of them infecting others if they are themselves infected. So it shouldn't be surprising if people wearing masks have become infected.

[Duke Wellington]

27 minutes ago, Peter B said:

With respect, And Then, I thought it was pretty well established that the purpose of masks wasn't to protect the wearer from catching the virus, but to reduce the chance of them infecting others if they are themselves infected. So it shouldn't be surprising if people wearing masks have become infected.

Masks only offer protection if they are N95 or N99, available at all good DIY stores.

The basic face masks the general public are wearing dont stop transmission, although they absorb a lot of particles reducing the chances of an infected person passing it onto someone else.

With where the research is up too they are giving steroids in UK hospitals to dampen down the patients immune response and keeping them well hydrated. Both measures reduce the risk of blood clots damaging organs causing multiple organ failure. On top of that oxygen if needed, and plasma transfusions to get antibodies into seriously ill patients. This and anti-viral medication have got our death rate in identified infected down to 0.2%.

Well done NHS, now we know what to do its time to end all lockdowns. Let it go for it. Lets take the 0.05% hit (the 0.2% doesnt include unidentified infected) as fast as possible and move on. We need to take it like men and brace ourselves. If we are one that has to take a hit we take the hit for our country. None of the snowflake feminine fannying around hysteria. Time for that stiff upper British lip.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[Buzz_Light_Year]

5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Now that is the pot calling the kettle black, just once back up your claim with something other than your opinion!

 

[Essan]

16 hours ago, bee said:

well that's the two big questions isn't it... and I don't have all the answers - but the first step is to recognize that not everyone believes in the Official Narrative when it comes to Covid 19 and what's gone on in 2020...

True

And not everyone believes the Earth is round , orbits the Sun or is more than 6,000 years old.   

[+Razman]

It's fake , the election's comming up . Anyway if you don't test , there won't be any virus

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I love you El, this is not personal, but I reacted so strongly to your post I had to break my silence and speak up. As a few here know, I lost the love of my life on 8-20-20 to covid. We had been an item for over 50 years. I am BEREAVED, my life is in disarray and my heart is shattered. 

However, what killed my dear lady was her diabetes, which she took too light and blew off, and her chronic bronchitis which she just shrugged off as well. Not a month before she became ill, when she returned from her father's funeral, she told me both her parents had lasted into their 90s and she was sure she also would. She was a strong willed woman who epitomized "mind over matter". If she didn't mind it, ignored it, it did NOT matter.

I cared for her through a tough ten days until i ignored her fury when I found her on the floor of the bedroom unable to walk and acting drunk as I had ever seen her back in our rock concert days. I got her out to the car and drove her to the hospital and the last time I saw her was her being whisked into the ER in a wheel chair. The "drunk" was extreme hypoxia as her lungs failed to get enough oxygen to her brain. She was maintaining then hit crisis in a matter of hours like that. I was away just a few hours. (Walmart is a 2 hour hour roundtrip drive from our house, plus shopping time).

Two weeks later a call from the Coroner in the middle of the night confirmed what I had known the night I got her out of the house. She was dying that night, and now, she is dead.

Covid was the straw that broke the camel's back for her. But, it was not the cause of her dying rather than recovering or resisting it entirely.

It wasn't. 

I NEVER tested positive. Still have not. My 82 year old Mother who I care for never has either.

This is not a pandemic IMO. I don't even believe in a vaccine for it. Its a virus, not a disease, it is like the common cold, which has no vaccine either. I am skeptical of the whole vaccine talk. My heart is wrung out, I am grieved past expressing, but, no. I don't buy into the pandemic hysteria. I do keep my hands washed, I do wear a mask out in public shops, and I do pray daily, but, that's it. 

So, skip the bereaved emotional appeal, please, and just stick with the facts. Death is a grief however it happens, and other causes of it have been as bad without the hysteria worldwide. Sad for the orphaned kids, sad for the widowers whose lives feel demolished, and the widows left with bills to pay. Boo-hoo, next story.

Sometimes, life is sad. Sometimes it really sucks.

The rage I feel over the politicalizing and non-stop fear mongering is hard to measure right now. The pain I feel every time I think to tell her something and realize ONCE AGAIN that she is not here, notwithstanding. 

I think I will cut off this rant here. I have not told UM of our family drama and loss because I just cannot cope with the "I'm sorry" crap. My heart already knows my friends here care, even my enemies never wished that on me. But, you have to know you do not speak for all the bereaved out here on covid, and I am with @bee on this one, anguish and all. If you have not lost immediate family, just skip even using that emotional horsepoo please, and if you have, speak for yourself, as I am trying to do. 

I say it again, Eldorado, this is not personal and I love you a lot as a friend here. But, your words cut me sharply. Peace man. 

Blessings, I know you are heart sore and there is nothing I can do to help except to tell you I care.  

I agree, the politicization of this virus is the worst part about it.  With all the lies and hoaxes floating around and no place to get real information except the state health department websites or an immunologist that actually knows how virus' work and can explain it (very few people have easy access to that) everyone chooses what they want to believe without ever investigating.  It is a symptom of a sick society.  

Purposeful lack of education is a tool of the propaganda machine.   I do take the virus seriously, and I understand that even though it is worse than the flu for some people, it is like the flu and cold, any vaccine created will be just like the flu vaccine, a 50/50 shot of addressing the right mutation.  AND you will need a new shot every year.

Even so, I can't agree with Bee as she can't make up her mind and jumps on the bandwagon of what ever internet website catches her attention, even when it totally contradicts what she was sure was the truth yesterday.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Desertrat56

[+Desertrat56]

3 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

 

Soon?  I think that ship sailed years ago.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

27 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Soon?  I think that ship sailed years ago.

I think the quote is from 1972,

[bee]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Even so, I can't agree with Bee as she can't make up her mind and jumps on the bandwagon of what ever internet website catches her attention, even when it totally contradicts what she was sure was the truth yesterday.

you had to spoil your post by finishing it off with a sly (and untrue) smear didn't you... 

 

 

[bee]

 

I was looking for more info about the World Doctors Alliance and this is their web page with an ......
 

 OPEN LETTER TO THE UK GOVERNMENT, GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD AND THE CITIZENS OF THE WORLD
 

https://worlddoctorsalliance.com/

It's too long to quote all of it  (it covers all the important points about the whole thing) but this is the Introduction...
 

Quote

INTRODUCTION

We were told initially that the premise for lockdown was to ‘flatten the curve’ and therefore protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.

It is clear that at no point was the National Health Service (NHS) in any danger of being overwhelmed, and since May 2020 covid wards have been largely empty; and crucially the death toll from covid has remained extremely low.

We now have hundreds of thousands of so-called ‘cases’, ‘infections’ and ‘positive tests’ but hardly any sick people. Recall that four fifths (80%) of ‘infections’ are asymptomatic (1) Covid wards have been by and large empty throughout June, July, August and September 2020. Most importantly covid deaths are at an all-time low. It is clear that these ‘cases’ are in fact not ‘cases’ but rather they are normal healthy people.

So-called asymptomatic cases have never in the history of respiratory disease been the driver for spread of infection. Rather it is symptomatic people who spread respiratory infections - not asymptomatic people.(2)

It is also abundantly clear that the ‘pandemic’ is basically over and has been since June 2020. (3)

We have very highly likely reached herd immunity and therefore have no need for a vaccine.

We have safe and very effective treatments and preventative treatments for covid, we therefore call for an immediate end to all lockdown measures, social distancing, mask wearing, testing of healthy individuals, track and trace, immunity passports, the vaccination program and so on.

There has been a catalogue of unscientific, non-sensical policies enacted which infringe our inalienable rights, such as - freedom of movement, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. These draconian totalitarian measures must never be repeated.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by bee
added the link

[ian hacktorp]

21 hours ago, Saru said:

Why is this small group of doctors and scientists to be believed over the countless thousands worldwide saying the complete opposite, especially given that the evidence would seem to contradict much of what they are saying ?

It is hardly just "this small group of doctors" raising the alarm about the Covid hoax...as you should well know.  Perhaps the question should be why are you ignoring the many other doctor groups who have stepped forward from many other countries and shown here on the pages of UM?

The vast majority of humans really do behave in herd-like ways.  Medical workers, in particular, are trained to do their jobs based upon the statistics and orders they are given.  If they don't, they get fired.  In short, they are not paid to ask tough questions...so they don't.

[bee]

6 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Well done NHS, now we know what to do its time to end all lockdowns. Let it go for it. Lets take the 0.05% hit (the 0.2% doesnt include unidentified infected) as fast as possible and move on. We need to take it like men and brace ourselves. If we are one that has to take a hit we take the hit for our country. None of the snowflake feminine fannying around hysteria. Time for that stiff upper British lip.

 

aye aye captain..... 
 

 

 

pic

[stevewinn]

37 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I was looking for more info about the World Doctors Alliance and this is their web page with an ......

 OPEN LETTER TO THE UK GOVERNMENT, GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD AND THE CITIZENS OF THE WORLD

It's too long to quote the whole of it (which covers all the important points about the whole thing) but this is the Introduction...

 

 

a good read is the letters to the editor of the British Medical Journal. this one caught my eye.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

 

 

 

[+Not A Rockstar]

7 hours ago, LightAngel said:

 

Yes - It's called common sense.

However, intelligence without a heart is useless.

And I think we can agree about that?!

 

Edit:

By the way, I'm glad you knew I posted the poem for you and your lady before I even told you.

 

I even teared up. Love you Angel <3

 

[Setton]

12 hours ago, bee said:

I wonder if the average life span of people who lived before good medical care was available tells us something..?

It was much lower than now although there was always a % who lived longer than the average and even well into old age..

Even this is misleading.

Life expectancy in the past was dragged down by high infant mortality. If you made it to adulthood, you'd probably make it well into old age.

Seriously, just a tiny bit of research is all anyone's asking.

[the13bats]

18 minutes ago, Goddess of the Mist said:

Unfortunately now we have yet another thing to divide us as people.  As if we needed something else.  I see society and the way people interact with each other to be in a slow decline because of all this.  

Its because everything becomes political.

[Autochthon1990]

On 10/16/2020 at 1:04 PM, Saru said:

Why is this small group of doctors and scientists to be believed over the countless thousands worldwide saying the complete opposite, especially given that the evidence would seem to contradict much of what they are saying ?

Same reason people don't believe global warming: It's hard to actually do something about a problem and much easier to just grab a beer and pretend everything's fine while people die because hey, they aren't YOUR people...

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:56 PM, Not A Rockstar said:

I would like to see a study done on how another contagious virus, which was NOVEL at the time, affected populations. I wonder if those also took out the weaker and easier carriers first and if it also caused lasting effects in some of the survivors. My logic tells me it would have been similar in effect, though slowed up by slower transportation, thus slower spread, if it was before much travel by air. This is something I would like to read over, but, it is likely not easily sorted from old records. I have wondered how the early days and years of the flu went, for example. 

My anger over my own loss is how it has become a political weapon, versus an issue which is being looked at and discussed from different angles as we wade through learning about it. This is a complete waste of time and energy and results in nothing positive, IMO. I am sick of seeing the number of cases nightly headlining. How about showing it as a percentage instead? How about adding that the death rate is x percent of the cases? Cynicism tells me it is because those numbers are less alarming.

My own experience and everything I have observed over the past months locally does not support continued lock downs, though the initial one to let Healthcare try to stock up and get ready before being slammed still makes some sense to me. Protecting the most vulnerable makes sense to me, but locking away EVERYONE makes no sense. The shared pain of the few cases of death locally have served to bring us closer together and also lessened the fear. In the majority of the cases, it was elderly or people with a lot of underlying issues who died. The rest have beat it and I cannot think of one of those who has lasting damage other than an old neighbor who has lower lung capacity now after being on a ventilator. Given they thought he would die, he is OK with the results, from what he told me. As extreme as some of the treatments were to try to beat it, especially early on when there were few known drug combinations that were known to help, some of that factored into damage too, I am sure. Not trying to say ALL, just there are nuances to what we know about it, now, and IMO the media has done near nothing to help with that. You have to hunt down other sources and observe and talk with local doctors and medical to feel you have something to work with as we all seek to sort this out for ourselves.

My doubts about any vaccine for any virus are jaded. I got a flu shot today but it just makes the best guess for the varieties I may be exposed to this year. Some years it works well, others, not so well. Viruses morph so fast. I just do not see a potential vaccine as being the Great Answer for this. We do not have a good answer for viruses yet. The effort now to come up with something new to be able to stop one scares me to be rushed. I want a lot more information about it before I will consider getting one. Present tech slows and inhibits but does not stop it nor eradicate it. That is why I am dubious about the vaccine issue.

Intelligent people read and decide for themselves. I resent some authority censoring dissent, and I don't like seeing this trend growing in our culture overall. 

The unintelligent will weed themselves out eventually. Can't fix everything  

This is just my opinion as someone who walks away from the reports for the most part and doesn't have a TV to watch the MSM. I have seen covid up close and personal, and it is real and serious for some of us, and needs to be taken seriously by us all, but, the cure cannot be worse than the virus itself. That is not sane.

Here is a case study of where a Novel Virus started and how it was spread across the Globe. Its thought to have started infecting humans in the 3rd Century BCE in Egypt, but due to the primitive forms of transportation at the time it did not infect the entire world until the 18th Century. This Virus was much more deadly than what we are currently experiencing, it had a death toll of 30%, so basically 3 out of every 10 people infected died.

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

In addition to the above here is a list of the worst Pandemics to effect our world and the time frame they occurred.

https://www.publichealthonline.org/worst-global-pandemics-in-history/

Considering how COVID19 has spread around the Globe, along with the Virus's incubation period and how in some cases people are infected again within months of their first infection I don't beleive this Virus is just going to go away ever.

I also doubt that a vaccine will be the answer to getting this Virus under control, because to date according to the scientific community due to mutations Antibodies derived from one infection may not stop reinfections. In addition to the fact that there is currently no medical professional that can even say how long immunity from Antibodies will last.

I am not trying to preach gloom and doom here, that's not my style. However, even after all the months that have past information gained about this Virus is still being updated very frequently. In addition new effects are also still being discovered that are linked or directly caused by this Virus on both those who are ill and those who have fully recovered.

Take Care 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[+and-then]

On 10/17/2020 at 12:11 AM, psyche101 said:

Then why not just ignore the media and just do the right thing for those at risk?

What, pray tell, is the "right" thing for those at risk?  Shutting down or severely limiting commerce?  You seem to be quite sanguine about letting a government impose punitive actions for behaviors that don't place anyone at risk.  

[Duke Wellington]

14 hours ago, bee said:

 

aye aye captain..... 
 

 

 

pic

Please, I prefer Colonel

[Grim Reaper 6]

20 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

 

I have to agree with you, just like you are doing right here. In fact most of the information passed on this forum is nothing but Parroting in one form or another, thanks for stating the obvious.

[Duke Wellington]

10 hours ago, Setton said:

Even this is misleading.

Life expectancy in the past was dragged down by high infant mortality. If you made it to adulthood, you'd probably make it well into old age.

Seriously, just a tiny bit of research is all anyone's asking.

I dont think the average lifespan has really gone up as much as they claim over the last 100 years.

Why? We haven`t had any major wars for a while now to distort the statistics.

[bee]

2 hours ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Same reason people don't believe global warming: It's hard to actually do something about a problem and much easier to just grab a beer and pretend everything's fine while people die because hey, they aren't YOUR people...

 

Funny you should introduce global warming into the equation because I have just seen this and it really helps to understand the ridiculous situation that is being forced onto the world at the moment regarding Covid 19.....

built up over a period of months by a colluding MSM.... (almost certainly planned for a lot longer before being wheeled out...)

when something doesn't make sense - (ie the OTT response to a virus that only has fatal complications for a tiny % of the population - bringing in repressive government measures the like not seen since WW2,,, indeed could be seen as worse in many ways than emergency restrictions during WW2...)

when something doesn't appear to make sense - that doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to someone else.... that it doesn't make sense to a group of Someones - who could be crafting and pushing an agenda that the General Public are not privy to and that is being 'arranged' outside the democratic process...

This short video helps to understand what could be going on and why all this is happening.... are people being trained into accepting the unacceptable... ?

I saw this and thought...... BINGO...... this helps to understand and make sense of the nonsensical situation we find ourselves in...

 

 video description...

Sky News host Rowan Dean says people cannot be surprised when the same “authoritarian elitists” who impose lockdowns in order to reach ‘COVID normal,’ enforce the same drastic restrictions to reduce carbon dioxide. Mr Dean pointed to the ‘Great Reset’ a “quasi-fascist version of the Green New Deal” which is supported by the IMF, the World Economic Forum, and the UN and aims to “by their own admission” use the tools of COVID suppression and adapt them to the “so-called crisis of climate change”. “By their own admission the Great Reset aims to use all the tools of Covid suppression such as lockdowns, curfews and enforced business closures and adapt them to the so-called 'crisis' of climate change,”

Mr Dean said. “Remember, this isn't me saying that we are going to switch from the COVID crisis to the climate crisis, this is them saying it, again and again and again. “Don't be surprised when these same petty dictators are the first to try to impose similar drastic restrictions as the only way to meet their commitments to reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to net zero emissions in the name of saving the planet.

“Make no mistake, climate change is a religion, gripped by the sort of religious zealotry, self-belief, self-flagellating rituals and unblinking intolerance not seen in Christianity since the dark ages.” “With all the major institutions now grovelling to the new cult of climate change, we are entering very dark days indeed. “With over 80 per cent of the world's energy still reliant upon fossil fuels, these religious zealots wish to plunge us all into some post-COVID dystopian nightmare of climate subservience.