Ghosts and the lack of

[Mr Walker]

17 hours ago, the13bats said:

No. Scientists have not photographed dreams,  people dream of photographs they dream of ghosts too, and while you believe youve had a ghost living in your home you have no proo, proof to you isnt proof to me for me its a story nothing more and nothing personal.

I guess it depends what you call photographs 

scientists have translated brain  wave activity of dreamers into the images the people were dreaming of. Thus they have created photographic images pf what a person  was dreaming   so far the y are not particularly clear but enough to recognise the images in them 

quote

"We have concluded that we successfully decoded some kinds of dreams with a distinctively high success rate," said Yukiyasu Kamitani, a senior researcher at the laboratories and head of the study team, on Friday.

https://www.smh.com.au/technology/japan-scientists-can-read-dreams-20130408-2hfp8.html

Google has done the same thing with an artificial intelligence, which is even easier, as it has control over input and output 

You can have a belief about a ghost in  our house.  I didn't have that luxury. It was there and seen and heard  The house burned down in a big bushfire  in 2005

so while YOU have no evidences, i do.

While you have disbelief I have knowledge. 

The only way you can argue against this is to say that ghosts don't exist, and thus i cant have encountered one.

That a belief position not a factual argument 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Mr Walker

[the13bats]

42 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I guess it depends what you call photographs 

scientists have translated brain  wave activity of dreamers into the images the people were dreaming of. Thus they have created photographic images pf what a person  was dreaming   so far the y are not particularly clear but enough to recognise the images in them 

quote

"We have concluded that we successfully decoded some kinds of dreams with a distinctively high success rate," said Yukiyasu Kamitani, a senior researcher at the laboratories and head of the study team, on Friday.

https://www.smh.com.au/technology/japan-scientists-can-read-dreams-20130408-2hfp8.html

Google has done the same thing with an artificial intelligence, which is even easier, as it has control over input and output 

You can have a belief about a ghost in  our house.  I didn't have that luxury. It was there and seen and heard  The house burned down in a big bushfire  in 2005

so while YOU have no evidences, i do.

While you have disbelief I have knowledge. 

The only way you can argue against this is to say that ghosts don't exist, and thus i cant have encountered one.

That a belief position not a factual argument 

 

You are incorrect, about photographing dreams, study how the human brain works and mapping etc.

I dont have belief about a ghost in your house because it only exists in your mind,

Sorry the house burned.

You have no evidence, you have stories of your alleged experences, just stories.

You do not have knowledge of ghosts you have belief, nothing more.

Im not aguring at all that ghosts do not exist you made a claim you have a ghost in your house you claim you have proof, so far your only proof presented is your belief which is only proof to you its nothing but a story to me,

If you have proof present it, no one has proven ghosts exist yet so you will be the first, but i will repete, your stories and your belief is not proof.

I dont have any burden to prove ghosts do not exist the burden if you are trying to convince others you have a ghost in your house is yours.

 

 

[psyche101]

12 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Ah, did he answer?  I have a lot of photos with orbs in them, I don't think they are ghosts.  I know some are not dust either, but I don't know what they are.

No, still don't know what the poster is referring to exactly.

[Mr Walker]

On 10/22/2020 at 1:11 PM, the13bats said:

 

You are incorrect, about photographing dreams, study how the human brain works and mapping etc.

I dont have belief about a ghost in your house because it only exists in your mind,

Sorry the house burned.

You have no evidence, you have stories of your alleged experences, just stories.

You do not have knowledge of ghosts you have belief, nothing more.

Im not aguring at all that ghosts do not exist you made a claim you have a ghost in your house you claim you have proof, so far your only proof presented is your belief which is only proof to you its nothing but a story to me,

If you have proof present it, no one has proven ghosts exist yet so you will be the first, but i will repete, your stories and your belief is not proof.

I dont have any burden to prove ghosts do not exist the burden if you are trying to convince others you have a ghost in your house is yours.

 

 

You can find images for japanese researchers where they photographed the images of a humans mind, reconstructed using computers to  interpret the neurological data 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5231179/AI-create-images-based-pictures-looking-at.html

Japanese scientists have create a creepy machine that can peer into your mind's eye with incredible accuracy.

The AI studies electrical signals in the brain to work out exactly what images someone is looking at, and even thinking about. 

The technology opens the door to strange future scenarios, such as those portrayed in the series 'Black Mirror', where anyone can record and playback their memories.

end quote

In each case the image on the  right  is a photograph of what the neural network was seeing as it looked a the image on the left,    as reconstructed using a computer, programmed to recognize specific neural  patterns as representations of images.  

 

Both images and sentences have been successfully transmitted from  one mind to another using a similar computer interface.

You  have a belief that my ghost only existed in my mind. That was my point 

The ghost dis not just exist in my mind. it manifested ia number of ways and was heard  by numerous other people  I also have a lot  of historical contextual data available eg i was able  to identify the ghost as a very old one which had moved across our valley from an old haunted house.  I didn't  know at the time i first saw it but research showed it was identical in appearance to the one observed many times in that house 

It had the same appearance and spoke the same words as the ghost formtha t house 

I have evidences, just as you have evidences of everything tha t happens to you. It is how you know what is real and what's not 

These are not transferrable evidences. (I cant use them to convince you and you cant use yours to convince me about your life)  buthe y are physical evidences eg you have personal   evidences of /for what you ate for breakfast,  watched on Tv, or where you went for the day

So i have knowledge of ghosts, and the only way you can claim otherwise is to believe  that  ghosts do not exist, and thus I CANNOT have experienced one

Again, that is a reasonable  belief but it is negated by experience/reality , and thus would be untrue

Neither of us has any burden of proof. 

I know what i know. You believe what you believe.

No problem.

But i would suggest you think about why you  have such a closed mind ,and may be what you are afraid of finding if oyu open it  up ie why do you believe ghosts do not exist and what purpose does tha t belief hold or serve? .       

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Mr Walker

[quillius]

On 10/21/2020 at 7:54 AM, Mr Walker said:

i guess it depends who you talk to and how you approach the person.

I have an interest in this area and have spoken to hundreds of people about their own experiences  i dont think ive ever encountered anyone who hasn't had some sort of personal encounter or at least an unexplained event  The y range from  the very simple like an electrical cord coiling by itself  on a bench top and a tumbler suspended in mid air for several minutes    to full grown hauntings of objects and houses and strong poltergeist activities  

That said, i dont think anyone argues that all dead people become ghosts.

Basically there is usually something traumatic about the death , or the persons life, which leads to their "energy form"  remaining  after their body dies 

 There are plenty of modern ghosts with encounters happening every day and night .

just in my local area there is a website where people recount encounters the y have had. 

re bolded....how does that reconcile with the fact they are usually described as clothed? 

[psyche101]

11 hours ago, quillius said:

re bolded....how does that reconcile with the fact they are usually described as clothed? 

I was wondering what energy?

Energy left in the human body at death disappates as heat. It's accounted for. 

[Mr Walker]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:10 PM, quillius said:

re bolded....how does that reconcile with the fact they are usually described as clothed? 

Haven't got a clue  

I meant that the image of the being was being projected as an energy form.

In my mind that is like a hologram projecting an image of a real person

(i am pretty sure, as an aside, that  there are actually  now some holograms existing of people who have since died)  If so, we could now produce convincing ghosts of people who have died    So in this theory the images of ghosts could be holographic energy projections of them, thus including clothing, and sometimes artefacts like a weapon  or stick  There appear to be some ghosts of animals, as well.

 This  (hypothetically)  answers psyches question as well. The energy in this hypothesis  doesn't come from  the person, but from an external source. (natural or technical) So if i projected a hologram of a person you  knew was dead, into your room for just a few seconds, your  first thought might be of a ghost   

To take the theory a little further, what if the hologram is not physically projected, so tha t all can see it, but is projected into your mind so only you can see it (Again this is a technology which humans are quickly approaching)

So, if these projections exist (naturally or via an advanced technology) some individuals might receive the projection in their minds, when they get in range of the "projector" 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Mr Walker

[quillius]

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Haven't got a clue  

I meant that the image of the being was being projected as an energy form.

In my mind that is like a hologram projecting an image of a real person

(i am pretty sure, as an aside, that  there are actually  now some holograms existing of people who have since died)  If so, we could now produce convincing ghosts of people who have died    So in this theory the images of ghosts could be holographic energy projections of them, thus including clothing, and sometimes artefacts like a weapon  or stick  There appear to be some ghosts of animals, as well.

 This  (hypothetically)  answers psyches question as well. The energy in this hypothesis  doesn't come from  the person, but from an external source. (natural or technical) So if i projected a hologram of a person you  knew was dead, into your room for just a few seconds, your  first thought might be of a ghost   

To take the theory a little further, what if the hologram is not physically projected, so tha t all can see it, but is projected into your mind so only you can see it (Again this is a technology which humans are quickly approaching)

So, if these projections exist (naturally or via an advanced technology) some individuals might receive the projection in their minds, when they get in range of the "projector" 

I just cannot see how a projection of a beings energy form would include clothing...a man made construct with no energy so to speak.

For me clothing is the one thing that almost certainly proves 'ghosts' are indeed constructs of the mind.....

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, quillius said:

I just cannot see how a projection of a beings energy form would include clothing...a man made construct with no energy so to speak.

For me clothing is the one thing that almost certainly proves 'ghosts' are indeed constructs of the mind.....

While I haven't checked/ verified it, these images apparently are all of holograms, or ( in the first and last cases)  a real person and their holographic image.

So why shouldn't a projection of a human being be wear clothes ? 

 

This one shows how much some ghosts resemble  low powered holographic images.

 

 

[quillius]

44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

While I haven't checked/ verified it, these images apparently are all of holograms, or ( in the first and last cases)  a real person and their holographic image.

So why shouldn't a projection of a human being be wear clothes ? 

 

This one shows how much some ghosts resemble  low powered holographic images.

 

 

to be honest, I am not getting it.

I do not understand the projection concept, as to who and why......

[openozy]

On 10/20/2020 at 12:58 AM, XenoFish said:

Some like to pretend that ghost are real. Even calling themselves "psychic", just to justify their delusion and/or mental illness.

If these people were mentally ill they wouldn't be pretending.You don't have to justify an illness.Most people have seen ghosts and are not ill or lying.

[psyche101]

55 minutes ago, openozy said:

If these people were mentally ill they wouldn't be pretending.You don't have to justify an illness.Most people have seen ghosts and are not ill or lying.

May I ask your opinion of the good Mr. Walker's claims? 

Do you feel he has seen ghosts, talked to (his version of) god, traveled the galaxy in a night, and has some extraordinary finding power? No judgement on those stories, I'm just curious to see how universal your statement is.

[openozy]

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

May I ask your opinion of the good Mr. Walker's claims? 

Do you feel he has seen ghosts, talked to (his version of) god, traveled the galaxy in a night, and has some extraordinary finding power? No judgement on those stories, I'm just curious to see how universal your statement is.

I don't believe anyone has special powers,they are just more open.If someone was lying about this stuff I don't think they would pursue the subject for that long.

[the13bats]

10 hours ago, openozy said:

If these people were mentally ill they wouldn't be pretending.You don't have to justify an illness.Most people have seen ghosts and are not ill or lying.

You know how i think about it, i dont pigeon hole every claim of paranormal as mental illness, however,

What you just say is what i try to express, a mentally ill person very much believes their hallucinations,  delusions make believe are real to them it is very real and while they dont have to justify illness we do have to accept mental illness is one explanation for paranormal claims.

There are mentally ill people like imnsho that lady who broke off her engagement with the ghost for cheating i doubt she will ever admit shes not well.

Edited October 28, 2020 by the13bats

[openozy]

7 minutes ago, the13bats said:

we do have to accept mental illness is one explanation for paranormal claims.

Could be but it may be their mind is in a state open to these things,bit hard to prove either way bats as you know.I try to see the funny side of life,which is all of it really,lol.

[the13bats]

2 minutes ago, openozy said:

Could be but it may be their mind is in a state open to these things,bit hard to prove either way bats as you know.I try to see the funny side of life,which is all of it really,lol.

I know, i just will not accept mental illness as the enlightened ones just because they cant or dont accept they are ill,

The last few years of her life my mom was gone, and her delusions were bliss to her no pain, must have been wonderful,

[openozy]

2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I know, i just will not accept mental illness as the enlightened ones just because they cant or dont accept they are ill,

The last few years of her life my mom was gone, and her delusions were bliss to her no pain, must have been wonderful,

Sorry about your mum bats,as you say she felt good towards her passing, I'm glad.I pretty well think I'm crazy so that is supposed to be an indication of sanity,well that's what they say,lol.

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, openozy said:

Sorry about your mum bats,as you say she felt good towards her passing, I'm glad.I pretty well think I'm crazy so that is supposed to be an indication of sanity,well that's what they say,lol.

Yep, question everything, including your sanity.  The way to stay balanced.

[the13bats]

19 minutes ago, openozy said:

Sorry about your mum bats,as you say she felt good towards her passing, I'm glad.I pretty well think I'm crazy so that is supposed to be an indication of sanity,well that's what they say,lol.

Its all good but thanks,

Yeah, rhe last few years as she went down i guess she was like a little girl, she was in horrible physical shape but didnt seem to know or care,

The last year or so she would not know me or mistake me for my dad yet they were divorced over 40 years,

I guess when we go if we have to linger her way seemed peaceful

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, openozy said:

I don't believe anyone has special powers,they are just more open.If someone was lying about this stuff I don't think they would pursue the subject for that long.

So you do believe the claims?

 

Does it ever strike you as odd that quite often, these people seem to have the whole range of paranormal experiences and yet can't provide any level of evidence for any of them? 

[psyche101]

45 minutes ago, openozy said:

Could be but it may be their mind is in a state open to these things,bit hard to prove either way bats as you know.I try to see the funny side of life,which is all of it really,lol.

You honestly think mental illness is a paranormal state of awareness? 

Even as a possibility? 

[openozy]

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

Its all good but thanks,

Yeah, rhe last few years as she went down i guess she was like a little girl, she was in horrible physical shape but didnt seem to know or care,

The last year or so she would not know me or mistake me for my dad yet they were divorced over 40 years,

I guess when we go if we have to linger her way seemed peaceful

As long as mum was feeling ok, I feel sorry for you and family to experience this though.

[openozy]

54 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You honestly think mental illness is a paranormal state of awareness? 

Even as a possibility? 

I just believe an altered brain state might have something to do with this.

[openozy]

58 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

So you do believe the claims?

 

Does it ever strike you as odd that quite often, these people seem to have the whole range of paranormal experiences and yet can't provide any level of evidence for any of them? 

Not all, but I don't know what others can see,nor do you, so we can't really judge.

[psyche101]

16 minutes ago, openozy said:

I just believe an altered brain state might have something to do with this.

Indeed, but we aren't on the same page there. Chemical balances I would say of be that it's illness, not done ability.

Why do you feel a state of mental illness could provide insights as opposed to simple being a mental illness?