Mr Walker Posted October 22, 2020 #1 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, the13bats said: No. Scientists have not photographed dreams, people dream of photographs they dream of ghosts too, and while you believe youve had a ghost living in your home you have no proo, proof to you isnt proof to me for me its a story nothing more and nothing personal. I guess it depends what you call photographs scientists have translated brain wave activity of dreamers into the images the people were dreaming of. Thus they have created photographic images pf what a person was dreaming so far the y are not particularly clear but enough to recognise the images in them quote "We have concluded that we successfully decoded some kinds of dreams with a distinctively high success rate," said Yukiyasu Kamitani, a senior researcher at the laboratories and head of the study team, on Friday. https://www.smh.com.au/technology/japan-scientists-can-read-dreams-20130408-2hfp8.html Google has done the same thing with an artificial intelligence, which is even easier, as it has control over input and output You can have a belief about a ghost in our house. I didn't have that luxury. It was there and seen and heard The house burned down in a big bushfire in 2005 so while YOU have no evidences, i do. While you have disbelief I have knowledge. The only way you can argue against this is to say that ghosts don't exist, and thus i cant have encountered one. That a belief position not a factual argument Edited October 22, 2020 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted October 22, 2020 #2 Share Posted October 22, 2020 42 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: I guess it depends what you call photographs scientists have translated brain wave activity of dreamers into the images the people were dreaming of. Thus they have created photographic images pf what a person was dreaming so far the y are not particularly clear but enough to recognise the images in them quote "We have concluded that we successfully decoded some kinds of dreams with a distinctively high success rate," said Yukiyasu Kamitani, a senior researcher at the laboratories and head of the study team, on Friday. https://www.smh.com.au/technology/japan-scientists-can-read-dreams-20130408-2hfp8.html Google has done the same thing with an artificial intelligence, which is even easier, as it has control over input and output You can have a belief about a ghost in our house. I didn't have that luxury. It was there and seen and heard The house burned down in a big bushfire in 2005 so while YOU have no evidences, i do. While you have disbelief I have knowledge. The only way you can argue against this is to say that ghosts don't exist, and thus i cant have encountered one. That a belief position not a factual argument You are incorrect, about photographing dreams, study how the human brain works and mapping etc. I dont have belief about a ghost in your house because it only exists in your mind, Sorry the house burned. You have no evidence, you have stories of your alleged experences, just stories. You do not have knowledge of ghosts you have belief, nothing more. Im not aguring at all that ghosts do not exist you made a claim you have a ghost in your house you claim you have proof, so far your only proof presented is your belief which is only proof to you its nothing but a story to me, If you have proof present it, no one has proven ghosts exist yet so you will be the first, but i will repete, your stories and your belief is not proof. I dont have any burden to prove ghosts do not exist the burden if you are trying to convince others you have a ghost in your house is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted October 22, 2020 #3 Share Posted October 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Desertrat56 said: Ah, did he answer? I have a lot of photos with orbs in them, I don't think they are ghosts. I know some are not dust either, but I don't know what they are. No, still don't know what the poster is referring to exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted October 26, 2020 #4 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) On 10/22/2020 at 1:11 PM, the13bats said: You are incorrect, about photographing dreams, study how the human brain works and mapping etc. I dont have belief about a ghost in your house because it only exists in your mind, Sorry the house burned. You have no evidence, you have stories of your alleged experences, just stories. You do not have knowledge of ghosts you have belief, nothing more. Im not aguring at all that ghosts do not exist you made a claim you have a ghost in your house you claim you have proof, so far your only proof presented is your belief which is only proof to you its nothing but a story to me, If you have proof present it, no one has proven ghosts exist yet so you will be the first, but i will repete, your stories and your belief is not proof. I dont have any burden to prove ghosts do not exist the burden if you are trying to convince others you have a ghost in your house is yours. You can find images for japanese researchers where they photographed the images of a humans mind, reconstructed using computers to interpret the neurological data https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5231179/AI-create-images-based-pictures-looking-at.html Japanese scientists have create a creepy machine that can peer into your mind's eye with incredible accuracy. The AI studies electrical signals in the brain to work out exactly what images someone is looking at, and even thinking about. The technology opens the door to strange future scenarios, such as those portrayed in the series 'Black Mirror', where anyone can record and playback their memories. end quote In each case the image on the right is a photograph of what the neural network was seeing as it looked a the image on the left, as reconstructed using a computer, programmed to recognize specific neural patterns as representations of images. Both images and sentences have been successfully transmitted from one mind to another using a similar computer interface. You have a belief that my ghost only existed in my mind. That was my point The ghost dis not just exist in my mind. it manifested ia number of ways and was heard by numerous other people I also have a lot of historical contextual data available eg i was able to identify the ghost as a very old one which had moved across our valley from an old haunted house. I didn't know at the time i first saw it but research showed it was identical in appearance to the one observed many times in that house It had the same appearance and spoke the same words as the ghost formtha t house I have evidences, just as you have evidences of everything tha t happens to you. It is how you know what is real and what's not These are not transferrable evidences. (I cant use them to convince you and you cant use yours to convince me about your life) buthe y are physical evidences eg you have personal evidences of /for what you ate for breakfast, watched on Tv, or where you went for the day So i have knowledge of ghosts, and the only way you can claim otherwise is to believe that ghosts do not exist, and thus I CANNOT have experienced one Again, that is a reasonable belief but it is negated by experience/reality , and thus would be untrue Neither of us has any burden of proof. I know what i know. You believe what you believe. No problem. But i would suggest you think about why you have such a closed mind ,and may be what you are afraid of finding if oyu open it up ie why do you believe ghosts do not exist and what purpose does tha t belief hold or serve? . Edited October 26, 2020 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted October 26, 2020 #5 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 7:54 AM, Mr Walker said: i guess it depends who you talk to and how you approach the person. I have an interest in this area and have spoken to hundreds of people about their own experiences i dont think ive ever encountered anyone who hasn't had some sort of personal encounter or at least an unexplained event The y range from the very simple like an electrical cord coiling by itself on a bench top and a tumbler suspended in mid air for several minutes to full grown hauntings of objects and houses and strong poltergeist activities That said, i dont think anyone argues that all dead people become ghosts. Basically there is usually something traumatic about the death , or the persons life, which leads to their "energy form" remaining after their body dies There are plenty of modern ghosts with encounters happening every day and night . just in my local area there is a website where people recount encounters the y have had. re bolded....how does that reconcile with the fact they are usually described as clothed? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted October 26, 2020 #6 Share Posted October 26, 2020 11 hours ago, quillius said: re bolded....how does that reconcile with the fact they are usually described as clothed? I was wondering what energy? Energy left in the human body at death disappates as heat. It's accounted for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted October 28, 2020 #7 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) On 10/26/2020 at 9:10 PM, quillius said: re bolded....how does that reconcile with the fact they are usually described as clothed? Haven't got a clue I meant that the image of the being was being projected as an energy form. In my mind that is like a hologram projecting an image of a real person (i am pretty sure, as an aside, that there are actually now some holograms existing of people who have since died) If so, we could now produce convincing ghosts of people who have died So in this theory the images of ghosts could be holographic energy projections of them, thus including clothing, and sometimes artefacts like a weapon or stick There appear to be some ghosts of animals, as well. This (hypothetically) answers psyches question as well. The energy in this hypothesis doesn't come from the person, but from an external source. (natural or technical) So if i projected a hologram of a person you knew was dead, into your room for just a few seconds, your first thought might be of a ghost To take the theory a little further, what if the hologram is not physically projected, so tha t all can see it, but is projected into your mind so only you can see it (Again this is a technology which humans are quickly approaching) So, if these projections exist (naturally or via an advanced technology) some individuals might receive the projection in their minds, when they get in range of the "projector" Edited October 28, 2020 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted October 28, 2020 #8 Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Haven't got a clue I meant that the image of the being was being projected as an energy form. In my mind that is like a hologram projecting an image of a real person (i am pretty sure, as an aside, that there are actually now some holograms existing of people who have since died) If so, we could now produce convincing ghosts of people who have died So in this theory the images of ghosts could be holographic energy projections of them, thus including clothing, and sometimes artefacts like a weapon or stick There appear to be some ghosts of animals, as well. This (hypothetically) answers psyches question as well. The energy in this hypothesis doesn't come from the person, but from an external source. (natural or technical) So if i projected a hologram of a person you knew was dead, into your room for just a few seconds, your first thought might be of a ghost To take the theory a little further, what if the hologram is not physically projected, so tha t all can see it, but is projected into your mind so only you can see it (Again this is a technology which humans are quickly approaching) So, if these projections exist (naturally or via an advanced technology) some individuals might receive the projection in their minds, when they get in range of the "projector" I just cannot see how a projection of a beings energy form would include clothing...a man made construct with no energy so to speak. For me clothing is the one thing that almost certainly proves 'ghosts' are indeed constructs of the mind..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted October 28, 2020 #9 Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, quillius said: I just cannot see how a projection of a beings energy form would include clothing...a man made construct with no energy so to speak. For me clothing is the one thing that almost certainly proves 'ghosts' are indeed constructs of the mind..... While I haven't checked/ verified it, these images apparently are all of holograms, or ( in the first and last cases) a real person and their holographic image. So why shouldn't a projection of a human being be wear clothes ? This one shows how much some ghosts resemble low powered holographic images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted October 28, 2020 #10 Share Posted October 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: While I haven't checked/ verified it, these images apparently are all of holograms, or ( in the first and last cases) a real person and their holographic image. So why shouldn't a projection of a human being be wear clothes ? This one shows how much some ghosts resemble low powered holographic images. to be honest, I am not getting it. I do not understand the projection concept, as to who and why...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #11 Share Posted October 28, 2020 On 10/20/2020 at 12:58 AM, XenoFish said: Some like to pretend that ghost are real. Even calling themselves "psychic", just to justify their delusion and/or mental illness. If these people were mentally ill they wouldn't be pretending.You don't have to justify an illness.Most people have seen ghosts and are not ill or lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted October 28, 2020 #12 Share Posted October 28, 2020 55 minutes ago, openozy said: If these people were mentally ill they wouldn't be pretending.You don't have to justify an illness.Most people have seen ghosts and are not ill or lying. May I ask your opinion of the good Mr. Walker's claims? Do you feel he has seen ghosts, talked to (his version of) god, traveled the galaxy in a night, and has some extraordinary finding power? No judgement on those stories, I'm just curious to see how universal your statement is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #13 Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 hours ago, psyche101 said: May I ask your opinion of the good Mr. Walker's claims? Do you feel he has seen ghosts, talked to (his version of) god, traveled the galaxy in a night, and has some extraordinary finding power? No judgement on those stories, I'm just curious to see how universal your statement is. I don't believe anyone has special powers,they are just more open.If someone was lying about this stuff I don't think they would pursue the subject for that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted October 28, 2020 #14 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, openozy said: If these people were mentally ill they wouldn't be pretending.You don't have to justify an illness.Most people have seen ghosts and are not ill or lying. You know how i think about it, i dont pigeon hole every claim of paranormal as mental illness, however, What you just say is what i try to express, a mentally ill person very much believes their hallucinations, delusions make believe are real to them it is very real and while they dont have to justify illness we do have to accept mental illness is one explanation for paranormal claims. There are mentally ill people like imnsho that lady who broke off her engagement with the ghost for cheating i doubt she will ever admit shes not well. Edited October 28, 2020 by the13bats 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #15 Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, the13bats said: we do have to accept mental illness is one explanation for paranormal claims. Could be but it may be their mind is in a state open to these things,bit hard to prove either way bats as you know.I try to see the funny side of life,which is all of it really,lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted October 28, 2020 #16 Share Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, openozy said: Could be but it may be their mind is in a state open to these things,bit hard to prove either way bats as you know.I try to see the funny side of life,which is all of it really,lol. I know, i just will not accept mental illness as the enlightened ones just because they cant or dont accept they are ill, The last few years of her life my mom was gone, and her delusions were bliss to her no pain, must have been wonderful, 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #17 Share Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, the13bats said: I know, i just will not accept mental illness as the enlightened ones just because they cant or dont accept they are ill, The last few years of her life my mom was gone, and her delusions were bliss to her no pain, must have been wonderful, Sorry about your mum bats,as you say she felt good towards her passing, I'm glad.I pretty well think I'm crazy so that is supposed to be an indication of sanity,well that's what they say,lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted October 28, 2020 #18 Share Posted October 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, openozy said: Sorry about your mum bats,as you say she felt good towards her passing, I'm glad.I pretty well think I'm crazy so that is supposed to be an indication of sanity,well that's what they say,lol. Yep, question everything, including your sanity. The way to stay balanced. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted October 28, 2020 #19 Share Posted October 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, openozy said: Sorry about your mum bats,as you say she felt good towards her passing, I'm glad.I pretty well think I'm crazy so that is supposed to be an indication of sanity,well that's what they say,lol. Its all good but thanks, Yeah, rhe last few years as she went down i guess she was like a little girl, she was in horrible physical shape but didnt seem to know or care, The last year or so she would not know me or mistake me for my dad yet they were divorced over 40 years, I guess when we go if we have to linger her way seemed peaceful 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted October 28, 2020 #20 Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, openozy said: I don't believe anyone has special powers,they are just more open.If someone was lying about this stuff I don't think they would pursue the subject for that long. So you do believe the claims? Does it ever strike you as odd that quite often, these people seem to have the whole range of paranormal experiences and yet can't provide any level of evidence for any of them? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted October 28, 2020 #21 Share Posted October 28, 2020 45 minutes ago, openozy said: Could be but it may be their mind is in a state open to these things,bit hard to prove either way bats as you know.I try to see the funny side of life,which is all of it really,lol. You honestly think mental illness is a paranormal state of awareness? Even as a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #22 Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, the13bats said: Its all good but thanks, Yeah, rhe last few years as she went down i guess she was like a little girl, she was in horrible physical shape but didnt seem to know or care, The last year or so she would not know me or mistake me for my dad yet they were divorced over 40 years, I guess when we go if we have to linger her way seemed peaceful As long as mum was feeling ok, I feel sorry for you and family to experience this though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #23 Share Posted October 28, 2020 54 minutes ago, psyche101 said: You honestly think mental illness is a paranormal state of awareness? Even as a possibility? I just believe an altered brain state might have something to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted October 28, 2020 #24 Share Posted October 28, 2020 58 minutes ago, psyche101 said: So you do believe the claims? Does it ever strike you as odd that quite often, these people seem to have the whole range of paranormal experiences and yet can't provide any level of evidence for any of them? Not all, but I don't know what others can see,nor do you, so we can't really judge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted October 28, 2020 #25 Share Posted October 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, openozy said: I just believe an altered brain state might have something to do with this. Indeed, but we aren't on the same page there. Chemical balances I would say of be that it's illness, not done ability. Why do you feel a state of mental illness could provide insights as opposed to simple being a mental illness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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