Abolishing the traditional grading system?

[bmk1245]

Quote

San Diego Public Schools Will Overhaul Its Grading System To Achieve 'Anti-Racism'

"If we’re actually going to be an anti-racist school district, we have to confront practices like this that have gone on for years and years."

San Diego's public schools want to be anti-racist, so they're…abolishing the traditional grading system?

"This is part of our honest reckoning as a school district," San Diego Unified School District Vice President Richard Barrera told a local NBC affiliate. "If we're actually going to be an anti-racist school district, we have to confront practices like this that have gone on for years and years."

(link)

What?!

That is a direct path to idiocracy!

[aztek]

schools are racist but prisons aren't,  SF schools prepare kids to life in a non racist environment.  what would we do without liberals, lol

Edited October 20, 2020 by aztek

[+Desertrat56]

Another way to add work to the teachers.  This is starting to sound like idiocracy, and also a big mistake using the excuse that the current system is racist.  Only true racists would come up with something like this.

[HandsomeGorilla]

Lol let's not try to bring kids up to speed and have them put in a little work, let's just make EVERYONE work less. Because racism. Lmao what a joke

This is America. Wanna have it your way? Don't try harder, try less... 

Edited October 20, 2020 by HandsomeGorilla

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

While the idea of replacing “failed” with “not yet competent” and providing multiple ways to prove competency is a good one, removing the onus on actually attending school and handing in the work is not. 
I structure my lessons in such a way that if the child demonstrates a core competency outside of the area where that competency is being taught/directly assessed they are still assessed as being competent in that core skill. We all do. However someone will still be graded as “not yet competent” or “Unable to be assessed” if they didn’t actually turn up to any lesson.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

The big slide into mediocrity.

[Duke Wellington]

11 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

(link)

What?!

That is a direct path to idiocracy!

It depreciates the value of qualifications.

This is socialism going to far. People are not equals, they all vary in their cognitive abilities. We need the bright people to get the qualifications they deserve, and instead of giving those not cut out of academic study the same qualifications they need diverting off into apprenticeships and trades.

The issue with those who have a low economic status is they dont have the skills to earn themselves a decent income. So instead of trying to get them through the education system by depreciating the value of qualifications then they need training for the army or public services, builders, plumbers, etc.

[bmk1245]

Notice how Asian-Americans always being excluded from "we are fighting racism" bs narrative.

[bmk1245]

13 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

While the idea of replacing “failed” with “not yet competent” and providing multiple ways to prove competency is a good one, removing the onus on actually attending school and handing in the work is not. 
I structure my lessons in such a way that if the child demonstrates a core competency outside of the area where that competency is being taught/directly assessed they are still assessed as being competent in that core skill. We all do. However someone will still be graded as “not yet competent” or “Unable to be assessed” if they didn’t actually turn up to any lesson.

How replacing word "corpse" with "not yet fully disintegrated body" helps? That just PC bs all over again, kinda "you didn't failed, you won, y'all are winners".

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

30 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

How replacing word "corpse" with "not yet fully disintegrated body" helps? That just PC bs all over again, kinda "you didn't failed, you won, y'all are winners".

No, because when it comes to learning you don’t fail, you just haven‘t learnt something yet. Look at it like this - I assess kids ability to catch a ball. Now, there are a dozen factors that play into a child’s ability or inability to do so. Wind, peer distraction, bad throw by teacher, sun in the eyes, a dislike of the whole concept of “sport” etc. Now, do they fail because on the instance of assessment they don’t catch the ball? Or do I say “They can’t do it, yet”?

When learning to learn you adopt a growth mindset, at its heart a growth mindset is “zI dan’t do that ... yet” failing someone impedes that growth mindset. Instead saying “you didn”t do it, try again” builds that mindset. From a growth mindset comes the sort of emotional resilience that even adults lack.

[aztek]

no wonder we have entitled, "i can do no wrong,' , i'm always right" and i deserve anything i want"  generation growing up.

you raise kids, teach them proper values of hard work and earned rewards, then they go to schools and schools destroys all of it, like in the example above,smh. no wonder the world is going to sht. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by aztek

[RoofGardener]

Equality of Outcome rather than Equality of Opportunity. 

How to fail the kids BIG TIME. 

[+Desertrat56]

18 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

The big slide into mediocrity.

Another big slide into mediocrity.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

6 hours ago, aztek said:

no wonder we have entitled, "i can do no wrong,' , i'm always right" and i deserve anything i want"  generation growing up.

you raise kids, teach them proper values of hard work and earned rewards, then they go to schools and schools destroys all of it, like in the example above,smh. no wonder the world is going to sht. 

Eddison said he never failed, he just learnt 100 ways not to do something. He had emotional resilience and knew learning was an ongoing process. He knew not to give up just because something fidn’t work, thst he didn’t succeed at that moment. Guess what, that’s exactly what we’re doing too. Failure means “not yet competent”, yes? “Unable to do so, at this time”, yes? So by making a single word “yet”  abundantly clear, we potentially change a child’s mindset towards learning. We built that emotional resilience.

Lets take one of my hypothetical students, she comes to class with a whole bag of other issues that cause her a lot of concerns. She can’t kick a ball. I structure my lesson such as she has three weeks to Demonstrate  that ability, in three weeks I build the skills, I demonstrate the techniques, I have her demonstrate the techniques. After those three weeks, she still can’t kick the ball. If I say “you’ve failed” there’s a good chance she’ll never try again. I’ve been in this job long enough to know there’s a good chance she’ll never try again. But if I say “you can’t do it yet” I don’t close the door on her continuing to try.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

6 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Equality of Outcome rather than Equality of Opportunity. 

How to fail the kids BIG TIME. 

The day every child comes to class with an equal background, then we can discuss an equality in other areas.

[aztek]

7 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Eddison said he never failed, he just learnt 100 ways not to do something. He had emotional resilience and knew learning was an ongoing process. He knew not to give up just because something fidn’t work, thst he didn’t succeed at that moment. Guess what, that’s exactly what we’re doing too. Failure means “not yet competent”, yes? “Unable to do so, at this time”, yes? So by making a single word “yet”  abundantly clear, we potentially change a child’s mindset towards learning. We built that emotional resilience.

Lets take one of my hypothetical students, she comes to class with a whole bag of other issues that cause her a lot of concerns. She can’t kick a ball. I structure my lesson such as she has three weeks to Demonstrate  that ability, in three weeks I build the skills, I demonstrate the techniques, I have her demonstrate the techniques. After those three weeks, she still can’t kick the ball. If I say “you’ve failed” there’s a good chance she’ll never try again. I’ve been in this job long enough to know there’s a good chance she’ll never try again. But if I say “you can’t do it yet” I don’t close the door on her continuing to try.

does not matter what edison said,  if you did not achieve a goal you failed,  pretty simple concept, what you doing is not only not helping kids to push themselves harder,  it actually is doing exact opposite. 

let's take real world students, they are arrogant, entitled, and believe they are owed everything,  that is what your kind of teaching turned them into. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Even if the grading system is changed to “competent” and “not yet competent” or “at expected level for someone of their cohort” and “not at the expected level...” - you’re still grading them. They are still being assessed and their work judged in comparison to their peers. They are still being told “you are not at the same level of achievement as someone your ager should be” except the language does not inherently disincentive further attempts. 
 

Even a woolly headed leftist indoctrinator in a rabid socialist wasteland like Australia like me does fail students. I just add that “yet” word. I can think of more than one student who has been told “you can’t do (whatever)” and so had given up and doesn’t try to do it. That’s the power of language, with it we can destroy someone or we can tell them that they can’t do something but to persevere and try in the future.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

does not matter what edison said,  if you did not achieve a goal you failed,  pretty simple concept, what you doing is not only not helping kids to push themselves harder,  it actually is doing exact opposite. 

let's take real world students, they are arrogant, entitled, and believe they are owed everything,  that is what your kind of teaching turned them into. 

b******s. 
My type of teaching teaches them to adapt to defeat, to treat a failure as a learning opportunity, to remember that just because you couldn’t do it when the teacher chose arbitrarily to assess something, it doesn’t mean you’ll never do it and to go on trying.

[aztek]

Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

b******s. 
My type of teaching teaches them to adapt to defeat, to treat a failure as a learning opportunity, to remember that just because you couldn’t do it when the teacher chose arbitrarily to assess something, it doesn’t mean you’ll never do it and to go on trying.

sorry dude but i see exact opposite in real world,  i have 2 kids in school i know what they teach there,  

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

8 minutes ago, aztek said:

sorry dude but i see exact opposite in real world,  i have 2 kids in school i know what they teach there,  

Well, perhaps we’ve reached one of those “well, America and Australia are truly different places” moments. Dude, I’m sorry the education system’s failing your kids, I really am. It is my empirical experience that this small written change from “not competent” to “not yet competent” has meant those children who might see that as a roadblock to their future learning, that “you can’t do this” is a forever state - (usually) don’t. They keep trying.

now, this was a long road for us. Hard damn work for us to build that mindset. It won’t be easy and it’s not easy. I still have children who say “I can’t do this” and give up. But sometimes it bears fruit, and I see kids who I have had to fail (“not yet competent” is a clunky verb) try again (often in the playground) whereas previously they may have given up altogether. Empirical evidence is not evidence-y evidence, I know.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[aztek]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

1. Well, perhaps we’ve reached one of those “well, America and Australia are truly different places” moments.Dude, I’m sorry the education system’s failing your kids,

wow, finally we come to an agreement our 2 countries are very different in that regard, (could there be others? asking for a friend)

they are failing, all of our kids, but some parents know it, and raise kids themselves, and school does not really hurt them,  others however, raised, taught and indoctrinated by school system,  we see them now protesting and rioting, up to the ears in student debt, and useless degree,  and everyone around is at fault, just not them, 

there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying i can't do if, if you really can't.  it does not mean you'll never be able to do it, it is just at this moment you can't, but if  you work more on it, you'll be able to.   you first have to acknowledge the problem in order to solve it, your approach does everything to mask it,  does not help solving it.  unless it is the idea,   convince kids they are not failing, it is not them, it is not their fault,   blame, background, broken family,  rich kids,  white old people, ......etc.  and  we got exactly that right now, 

[Autochthon1990]

Good to have an actual teacher explaining this stuff and how it can be better, then to just see some sort of right wing slant on things 'proving' liberals want kids to be idiots. I don't agree with Hats on everything, but he clearly knows his stuff and is passionate about his career. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

18 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Good to have an actual teacher explaining this stuff and how it can be better, then to just see some sort of right wing slant on things 'proving' liberals want kids to be idiots. I don't agree with Hats on everything, but he clearly knows his stuff and is passionate about his career. 

Nah, he’s an idiot. Can’t even spell good.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I also have to stress, having thought about it, what works here may not work in America (and vice versa). We are a fundamentally left-leaning nation whereas America is a fundamentally right leaning nation (even our right wing politicians and political parties are closer to what you’d consider centrist, politically). Children are children, true, but the context within which they are children does differ and that context is important. 

[Autochthon1990]

15 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I also have to stress, having thought about it, what works here may not work in America (and vice versa). We are a fundamentally left-leaning nation whereas America is a fundamentally right leaning nation (even our right wing politicians and political parties are closer to what you’d consider centrist, politically). Children are children, true, but the context within which they are children does differ and that context is important. 

We're the most right wing developed nation, which is a problem given how much trouble it causes for our society...