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Obviousman

HCQ Update

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Obviousman
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Although likely safe to administer with close QTc monitoring, the findings do not support use of hydroxychloroquine–azithromycin therapy for hospitalized patients with COVID-19

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40119-020-00201-7

Quote

Moderate certainty evidence suggests that HCQ, with or without azithromycin, lacks efficacy in reducing short-term mortality in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 or risk of hospitalization in outpatients with COVID-19.

https://academic.oup.com/jac/advance-article/doi/10.1093/jac/dkaa403/5919602

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THE United States Strategic National Stockpile is laden with 63 million doses of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) that have no clinical use in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). This has occurred as the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has revoked the emergency use authorisation for the use of HCQ in patients with COVID-19 admitted to hospital for whom a clinical trial is unavailable or not feasible. It is worth reflecting how things ever got to this situation.

https://insightplus.mja.com.au/2020/35/covid-19-the-rise-and-fall-of-hydroxychloroquine/

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UPDATE 11 August 2020: National Taskforce strengths recommendation against use of hydroxychloroquine

Following a review of available scientific and clinical data, the National COVID-19 Clinical Evidence Taskforce have strengthened their recommendation against the use of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19. The taskforce notes that based on available evidence "hydroxychloroquine is potentially harmful and no more effective than standard care in treating patients with COVID-19. We therefore recommend that hydroxychloroquine should not be used."

https://www.nps.org.au/hcq-and-covid-19

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We conclude that the consequences of impulsive use of HCQ and CQ could worsen in the coming days. Physicians and laymen should enlighten themselves with existing literature regarding the use of HCQ and CQ against COVID-19. While people should avoid buying drugs they do not need, healthcare authorities should ensure that antimalarial drugs are not dispensed, without a legitimate prescription. Moreover, political leaders and news networks should refrain from endorsing substandard therapies.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dua_Azim/publication/344635876_Widespread_Use_of_Hydroxychloroquine_and_Chloroquine_Amid_COVID-19_Pandemic_A_Word_of_Caution/links/5f85ff3f458515b7cf7f5a23/Widespread-Use-of-Hydroxychloroquine-and-Chloroquine-Amid-COVID-19-Pandemic-A-Word-of-Caution.pdf

Quote

This systematic review, which included a limited number of poorly designed controlled clinical trials and several real-world studies of patients with COVID-19 requiring hospitalization, found that the use of a regimen containing HCQ with or without AZ did not offer clinical benefit. HCQ with or without AZ did not improve the rate of virologic cure, disease progression, and mortality. These regimes were associated with more adverse effects.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/crj/2020/4312519/

Nope - still not effective against COVID-19.

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susieice
Obviousman

Yep - that one is showing real promise.

 

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susieice
2 hours ago, Obviousman said:

Yep - that one is showing real promise.

 

It wasn't. That's not what the articles are saying at all. Read them. They said it didn't work. But I heard tonight that the FDA is approving it.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-treatment-covid-19

Edited by susieice
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Obviousman
7 minutes ago, susieice said:

It wasn't. That's not what the articles are saying at all. Read them. They said it didn't work. But I heard tonight that the FDA is approving it.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-treatment-covid-19

Strange - the reports I read said it was doing well. Let me find the references and I'll post them here. I know the FDA only recently approved it but apparently the TGA in Australia approved it a month or two ago.

Edited by Obviousman
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susieice
1 hour ago, Obviousman said:

Strange - the reports I read said it was doing well. Let me find the references and I'll post them here. I know the FDA only recently approved it but apparently the TGA in Australia approved it a month or two ago.

The reports on remdesivir are posted in post 2 of this thread. The FDA just approved it today, which is in post. It's the first treatment they have approved, but it contradicts what WHO says their world wide studies show.

 

Edited by susieice
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susieice

ABC News said tonight the FDA approved remdesivir today but also mentioned the WHO report that was released last week.

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stereologist
On 10/22/2020 at 9:03 PM, susieice said:

It wasn't. That's not what the articles are saying at all. Read them. They said it didn't work. But I heard tonight that the FDA is approving it.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-treatment-covid-19

It shortens hospital stay but that is it. Not a cure for sure

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stereologist

HCQ is a failure.

That is for certain.

I posted the latest RCT showing it to a failure in the medical news thread.

 

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Obviousman

HCQ is effective when used in the correct treatment regime for the proper ailment. But in regard to COVID-19, it has proven ineffective.

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Raptor Witness

I don’t understand why zinc, which is the essential element, necessary for HCQ to work, isn’t part of the therapeutic protocol in these studies.

Until we see that evidence, it’s pointless to argue that it doesn’t work.

Without some correlation to zinc levels, there’s no way to confirm efficacy.

Skip to the 14:30 minute mark.

Skip to the 3:30 minute mark.

 

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Obviousman
20 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

I don’t understand why zinc, which is the essential element, necessary for HCQ to work, isn’t part of the therapeutic protocol in these studies.

Until we see that evidence, it’s pointless to argue that it doesn’t work.

Without some correlation to zinc levels, there’s no way to confirm efficacy.

Skip to the 14:30 minute mark.

Skip to the 3:30 minute mark.

 

I'm not a medical or scientific expert but when repeated controlled studies are published in reputable journals saying that HCQ is ineffective against COVID-19, I tend to believe them.

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Raptor Witness
3 minutes ago, Obviousman said:

I'm not a medical or scientific expert but when repeated controlled studies are published in reputable journals saying that HCQ is ineffective against COVID-19, I tend to believe them.

Clearly you don’t understand the theory behind the mechanism, for how this works.

It’s like arguing for why your gasoline engine runs without a spark plug. 

 

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Obviousman
2 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

Clearly you don’t understand the theory behind the mechanism, for how this works.

It’s like arguing for why your gasoline engine runs without a spark plug. 

Oh, apologies - so medical experts are wrong?

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Raptor Witness
1 hour ago, Obviousman said:

Oh, apologies - so medical experts are wrong?

I think eventually we will see some results that include the zinc correlation data, but if they don’t have that, I’m not interested.

Just because someone claims to be a “medical expert,” doesn’t make them the be-all end-all of HCQ.

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stereologist
3 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

Clearly you don’t understand the theory behind the mechanism, for how this works.

It’s like arguing for why your gasoline engine runs without a spark plug. 

 

No. The theory as you call it would actually be a hypothesis.

The hypothesis has been tested I believe and shown to be ineffective.

Typically elevated levels of a material do not help. You might want to find out more about zinc before pushing something that seems to be more snake oil than anything else.

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stereologist
2 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I think eventually we will see some results that include the zinc correlation data, but if they don’t have that, I’m not interested.

Just because someone claims to be a “medical expert,” doesn’t make them the be-all end-all of HCQ.

Just because you are promoting a guess with zero evidence to back you means what exactly?

 

I'm looking up this Dr Seheult and all I see is someone promoting unproven ideas. He seems to be an outlier with him taking a zinc level that can be dangerous. Researchers are again zinc supplements if people have normal zinc levels. Most of his material is old in the COVID-19 research timeline 

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Raptor Witness
4 hours ago, stereologist said:

No. The theory as you call it would actually be a hypothesis.

The hypothesis has been tested I believe and shown to be ineffective.

Typically elevated levels of a material do not help. You might want to find out more about zinc before pushing something that seems to be more snake oil than anything else.

I was just looking at your long list of recent diatribes, by clicking on your name here, and it’s one venomous attack after another against the membership.

Nothing of any value, really, unless preparing antivenin. So take a nice bite on top of the jar, and we’ll see you in three months.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Obviousman
17 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I think eventually we will see some results that include the zinc correlation data, but if they don’t have that, I’m not interested.

Just because someone claims to be a “medical expert,” doesn’t make them the be-all end-all of HCQ.

That's pretty arrogant, isn't it? Unless you are a scientist in that field, perhaps a researcher. Are you a medical expert, qualified in a related field?

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stereologist
17 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I was just looking at your long list of recent diatribes, by clicking on your name here, and it’s one venomous attack after another against the membership.

Nothing of any value, really, unless preparing antivenin. So take a nice bite on top of the jar, and we’ll see you in three months.

 

And we notice you have no response to the issue I pointed out. You seem to be following up on one and only one person with a zinc fetish. The person is in fact taking a zinc level some people consider dangerous because it interferes with metabolic processes. 

Maybe you should find out more about zinc which is only prescribed for those with low levels just as supplements are prescribed bymedical professionals only to bring them up to normal levels.

 

Edited by stereologist

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