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George Floyds case and trial

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the13bats
Posted (edited)

Too many i want to reply to so i imagine you can figure out who im directing what at,

I cant get around the the very real biases here some of the replies sure sound motivated by racism , im going into this the same way i go in any mystery here be it ghosts, aliens, bigfoot or whatever, lile some of you i am not trying to make the end result fit my opinion i want to know what the end result really is from the facts not speculations or biases.

I also have a background that does give me some experence with things many only read or hear about.

Since neither side has pushed that these guys knew each other possibly from a bouncer job i will move on from that.

There seems to be a lot of talk floyd would have died anyway, that day maybe even at the near same time and to that i call speculative BS. Floyd might have died within the hour or day can never be proven however the fact he did die with Chauvin knee on his neck,  there is no text book one size fits all answer on junkies ive seen too many people take od doses and not die. And floyd wasnt at home alone he was on a street with a knee on his neck.

And for those who want to speculate claim the knee to neck was just scenery that he was dying anyway from OD then we still have a case of a disastrous failure of an incompetent LEO who couldn't tell the difference between a perp has been subdued or a perp is dying with your knee on his neck.

Chauvin was on him over 9 mins get on your knee in your floor time off 9 mins and just think at half that had Chauvin started emergency care he likely wouldnt be facing charges, no, Chauvin bumbled it.

So no matter how you try to word it and package it up Chauvin was the contributing factor to floyds death at that moment even if he was having an od you can not prove that without the knee to neck or with the addition of medical care he wouldnt have survived.

So we are at just how much to blame is Chauvin? Well i highly doubt it was premeditated, and even though i believe people in positions of power should answer to higher standards its not the case, i would look at Chauvin prior cases of abuse but that still doesnt mean premeditated.

There is also the fact floyd and his buddy were commiting a crime where Chauvin got invovllved, and i know some of you are howling that floyd deserved what he got, no he didnt a cop is not judge and jury and the crime wasnt violent the responsibility is on the LEO to do what is required not more and to know when a perp needs emergency care, Chauvin failed in an epic way. Be happy Chauvin didmt treat you in that incompetent way when you ran a red light, jsy walked or littered.

Chauvin played a part if not the full reason floyd died at that moment so he should be convicted and his crime to me the same as a drunk driver who kills another driver, what is that penalty,  manslaughter?

Because Chauvin that day let down his badge and his fellow officers he let down the citizens and most of all he let down Floyd and he did so at about the same level of incompetence as a drunk driver, both knew the power they had and neither respected it or cared about the consequences of they actions. Ego trippers who fail and have to answer for they failures.

I see Chauvin getting manslaughter but he wont walk, that just wont happen in this case.

smiley_popcorn.gif.5a89c843c9c41da25550b2bc3c4c29f6.gif

PS suing and $$$ will not bring floyd back and it might be like his death was a winning lotto ticket for his family, but if agencies start loosing enough $$$ when officers fail then wheels might start turning  to weed out bad apples like Chauvin

Edited by the13bats
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DieChecker
8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

No. That's not at all what it says.

It says if he had died at home, they could suspect fentynal as the cause, that's there's nothing to say he would have died regardless. Some people may die from that level some not. Nothing at all indicates that he was actually dying, or would die if there had been no altercation. It's a red herring.

And there's nothing specifically saying he wouldn't. He had a potentially lethal level in his body. He was already having breathing issues when the first two officers arrived and got him out of his car. He was disoriented and combative. Signs he had ODed.

Quote

Who knows. Any conclusions can only be based on speculation.

And speculation he could have been dying already is as valid as saying he was fine.

Quote

He is a medical professional. 

He said everything pointed at asphyxia and gave plenty of reasons why. Fact is he was killed. He did not die on the street of an overdose. All reports say the arrest was a lot more violent than necessary and I feel the videos support that conclusion. 

Where did I say he wasnt killed? I said the officer was responsible, but I think he would have died later anyway.

Quote

You can believe that bit only wild speculation supports it. 

I agree it is speculation, but id not call it "wild" speculation. His blood levels were in the lethal range.

Quote

That's not really an argument. Doctors can have their license removed for misleading reports. It's even wilder speculation than the above at best. Actual results do not say he was dying, or would die that day. The doctors involved don't support that. Chauvins lawyers do. If anyone is being paid to mislead others, its logically the police and their lawyers.

Doctors, AFAIK, aren't suspended for having an opinion.

The medical examiner said if he was found at home dead, it wouldn't be unusual to call it an OD. That says to me he could have died on his own. There's no way to disprove he might have died later.

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DieChecker
8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That doesn't change the medical conclusions. 

It's just bias. 

It's government data that supports my belief that Floyd could have died later. The narrative in the news by the US left is that fentanyl isn't that dangerous, which is a lie. It is the leading cause of drug ODs.

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the13bats
8 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes he did not have to hold  his knee for that long, he deserves few years, but i want him to be found not guilty,   this case is highly politicized,  it is not about justice for Floyd, it is about this case being used by  the left to push their agenda,  and divide us population,    i'm very much against that,  so yea i hope he walks free, even thou he was wrong.

You are so blind by your hate and anger you say let guilty Chauvin walk yet you dont see your way of thinking as just more of a problem not the solution. The problem isnt that made up "evil left agenda" you guys are so deathly affraid of the problem is you.

If you could loose the hate that clouds your rational thought but no, i knew you were a lost cause way back

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spartan max2
7 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Too many i want to reply to so i imagine you can figure out who im directing what at,

I cant get around the the very real biases here i am not saying its all racisl but some of you sure are, im going into this the same way i go in any mystery here be it ghosts, aliens, bigfoot or whatever, lile some of you i am not trying to make the end result fit my opinion i want to know what the end result really is from the facts not speculations or biases.

I also have a background that does give me some experence with things many only read or hear about.

Since neither side has pushed that these guys knew each other possibly from a bouncer job i will move on from that.

There seems to be a lot of talk floyd would have died anyway, that day maybe even at the near same time and to that i call speculative BS. Floyd might have died within the hour or day can never be proven however the fact he did die with Chauvin knee on his neck,  there is no text book one size fits all answer on junkies ive seen too many people take od doses and not die. And floyd wasnt at home alone he was on a street with a knee on his neck.

And for those who want to speculate claim the knee to neck was just scenery that he was dying anyway from OD then we still have a case of a disastrous failure of an incompetent LEO who couldn't tell the difference between a perp has been subdued or a perp is dying with your knee on his neck.

Chauvin was on him over 9 mins get on your knee in your floor time off 9 mins and just think at half that had Chauvin started emergency care he likely wouldnt be facing charges, no, Chauvin bumbled it.

So no matter how you try to word it and package it up Chauvin was the contributing factor to floyds death at that moment even if he was having an od you can not prove that without the knee to neck or with the addition of medical care he wouldnt have survived.

So we are at just how much to blame is Chauvin? Well i highly doubt it was premeditated, and even though i believe people in positions of power should answer to higher standards its not the case, i would look at Chauvin prior cases of abuse but that still doesnt mean premeditated.

There is also the fact floyd and his buddy were commiting a crime where Chauvin got invovllved, and i know some of you are howling that floyd deserved what he got, no he didnt a cop is not judge and jury and the crime wasnt violent the responsibility is on the LEO to do what is required not more and to know when a perp needs emergency care, Chauvin failed in an epic way. Be happy Chauvin didmt treat you in that incompetent way when you ran a red light, jsy walked or littered.

Chauvin played a part if not the full reason floyd died at that moment so he should be convicted and his crime to me the same as a drunk driver who kills another driver, what is that penalty,  manslaughter?

Because Chauvin that day let down his badge and his fellow officers he let down the citizens and most of all he let down Floyd and he did so at about the same level of incompetence as a drunk driver, both knew the power they had and neither respected it or cared about the consequences of they actions. Ego trippers who fail and have to answer for they failures.

I see Chauvin getting manslaughter but he wont walk, that just wont happen in this case.

smiley_popcorn.gif.5a89c843c9c41da25550b2bc3c4c29f6.gif

PS suing and $$$ will not bring floyd back and it might be like his death was a winning lotto ticket for his family, but if agencies start loosing enough $$$ when officers fail then wheels might start turning  to weed out bad apples like Chauvin

You raise good points.

For me, someone is to blame but its between the department or the officer.

If the officer followed policy than it's the departments fault for having bad policy. 

If the officer went rouge than it's his fault.

I agree with you that the murder was probably unintentional. Aka manslaughter. 

I feel comfortable with going with whatever the jury decides on this one.

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the13bats
4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

It's government data that supports my belief that Floyd could have died later. The narrative in the news by the US left is that fentanyl isn't that dangerous, which is a lie. It is the leading cause of drug ODs.

This has zero to do with the evil left.

"Could have" no one can prove would have but Chauvin contributed to his death at that time, its not hard to grasp just move on to what should Chauvin get as a sentence,

Manslaughter sounds right.

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Myles
9 minutes ago, the13bats said:

 

I cant get around the the very real biases here i am not saying its all racist but some of you sure are

While I agreed with most of your post, I can't get past the typical comment from most on the left.  

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aztek
6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

You are so blind by your hate and anger you say let guilty Chauvin walk yet you dont see your way of thinking as just more of a problem not the solution. The problem isnt that made up "evil left agenda" you guys are so deathly affraid of the problem is you.

If you could loose the hate that clouds your rational thought but no, i knew you were a lost cause way back

uh, what?

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Myles said:

While I agreed with most of your post, I can't get past the typical comment from most on the left.  

You don't see that as your problem?  You are the one biased enough to pretend there is a "left".   Define the typical comment from most on the left?  I see people saying Chauvin needs to be convicted of at least manslaughter and I don't see anyone saying he needs to be convicted of murder.   This whole situation is very volatile because of the media agenda, but there is a reality to it that a man died from another man not doing his job correctly, whether he was trained to put his knee on a neck or not he went beyond reasonable restraint, and he did after he knew the person was having trouble breathing.   That is just stupid.  And if the department sanctioned that (like someone else said) they need to be held accountable as well.   The biggest problem I see is the media circus and polarized responses to that with very little real thought about what really happened and why.  

I said this before, this kind of thing happens a lot all over the country and no one ever hears about it, but now here we are discussing one case that blew up in the media.  Partly because there were so many witnesses and partly because it fits the narrative we are being fed.

The real narrative should be that our police are rarely trained properly, they are trained with war tactics and taught to suspect and react adveresly without thinking instead of how to assess the situation and handle it without violence.   They are given or sold at cheap prices, military equipment that they should not need.  They are not at war with the public, they are supposed to be protecting the public.  But no one mentions that, you either have angry cops yelling about being disrespected (without giving any reason for the respect they want) or you have angry people yelling about the over zealous violence the cops respond with.   Something has to change and soon, because we have other issues that is playing into all of this now.   Zombies react to the media circus' and call people names, fear their neighbors etc.   Thinking people are trying to get a grip on the situation mostly speaking to walls of fear and anger.   How will it play out?  Will your gandchildren have to wear body armor just to go to school, If there is school?

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aztek
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Myles said:

While I agreed with most of your post, I can't get past the typical comment from most on the left.  

typical left garbage, the other side is always wrong, .they hate us,  blah blah

p.s. and now apparently,  there is no left , we imagined it all,  what a crock of liberal sht, lmao

Edited by aztek
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the13bats
4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

You raise good points.

For me, someone is to blame but its between the department or the officer.

If the officer followed policy than it's the departments fault for having bad policy. 

If the officer went rouge than it's his fault.

I agree with you that the murder was probably unintentional. Aka manslaughter. 

I feel comfortable with going with whatever the jury decides on this one.

And your points are very good too, my mind engaging, this isnt a movie there will be no col jessep moments at this trial no one in the chain is defending Chauvin,

I have to wonder did they sweep Chauvin past abuse charges under the rug or were they bogus,

I watched the videos out there its hard for me not to see an over zealous LEO going too long too hard but i wasnt there im not him and i have no idea if he was rouge or had malice towards floyd.

I too am good with whatever the jury decides ive been a foreman twice and those were little offenses i delighted im not on this trial.

I also believe it will be manslaughter and im concerned some with other agendas will say thats not good enough and go run amuck which just makes the bigger problem so much worse.

 

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Myles
2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You don't see that as your problem?  You are the one biased enough to pretend there is a "left".   Define the typical comment from most on the left?

Starting a post out accusing  people with a different viewpoint of being racist.  

If you read back, I have not supported Chauvin.  Quite the opposite.  

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Desertrat56
Just now, Myles said:

Starting a post out accusing  people with a different viewpoint of being racist.  

If you read back, I have not supported Chauvin.  Quite the opposite.  

Ok.  So someone accuses Chauvin of being racist without any facts to back it up, that is what you call "left"?  Thanks for defining it.  It just looks like a cop out to mention "the left" when that is not what we are discussing.  Just put those on ignore if it bothers you.   I can testify that the ignore option works really well.

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the13bats
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Myles said:

While I agreed with most of your post, I can't get past the typical comment from most on the left.  

Im not left and at this point call me left as if its some disparaging term shows more about you than myself, if you can read replies on here and not pick out the racists thats fine but heres a clue

They are the first to jump with left this left that when a comment like i made was posted.

Edited by the13bats

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Myles
7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Ok.  So someone accuses Chauvin of being racist without any facts to back it up, that is what you call "left"?  Thanks for defining it.  It just looks like a cop out to mention "the left" when that is not what we are discussing.  Just put those on ignore if it bothers you.   I can testify that the ignore option works really well.

It did not seem to be directed at Chauvin only, but at people on this message board.   

I've never been a fan of people throwing the racist accusation all over the place.   It's so watered down now.   

 

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the13bats
24 minutes ago, aztek said:

uh, what?

Its not hard to grasp for most of us you posted...

40 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes he did not have to hold  his knee for that long, he deserves few years, but i want him to be found not guilty,   this case is highly politicized,  it is not about justice for Floyd, it is about this case being used by  the left to push their agenda,  and divide us population,    i'm very much against that,  so yea i hope he walks free, even thou he was wrong.

Written Like you think its cool and makes you look all high and mighty and intelligent to let a person, a criminal you deem guilty you said "deserves a few years" walk scott free

Just because you wrongly believe it supports your political agendas yet you are all in fear of this left you guys cant stop crying about,

Typical go to for you guys,  deny and blame someone else.

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Myles
9 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Im not left and at this point call me left as if its some disparaging term shows more about you than myself, if you can read replies on here and not pick out the racists thats fine but heres a clue

They are the first to jump with left this left that when a comment like i made was posted.

Here you go again.   Accusing me of being racist.  That is a typical characteristic of a brainwashed racist.

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the13bats
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Myles said:

Starting a post out accusing  people with a different viewpoint of being racist.  

If you read back, I have not supported Chauvin.  Quite the opposite.  

Claim down, Dont make up stuff, here is what i said....

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

I cant get around the the very real biases here i am not saying its all racisl but some of you sure are,

Imnsho i read posts on here that sound motivated by racism, its just my opinion you need not agree but try not to have some manic unhinged meltdown over my opinion, you are making it seem like it hit a raw nerve.

So i will change that to "some replies here sound motivated by racism" better?

 

31 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Ok.  So someone accuses Chauvin of being racist without any facts to back it up

If this is about his freak out over what i posted i never suggested chauvin was a racist, i dont know what the man is or isnt.

Edited by the13bats
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the13bats
12 minutes ago, Myles said:

Here you go again.   Accusing me of being racist.  That is a typical characteristic of a brainwashed racist.

Look i edited the other post that got you so unhinged, and you freak out that you think i suggested you are a racist and you rebuke that by calling me a racist, is that some type of "i know you are but what am i" tactic you use?

Are you having a bad day? You are taking my babbling way too serious, i think some replies sound motivated by racism, so what?

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Myles
6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Claim down, Dont make up stuff, here is what i said....

Imnsho i read posts on here that sound motivated by racism, its just my opinion you need not agree but try not to have some manic unhinged meltdown over my opinion, you are making it deem like it hit a raw nerve.

So i will change that to "some replies here sound motivated by racism" better?

 

If this is about his freak out over what i posted i never suggested chauvin was a racist, i dont know what the man is or isnt.

No one freaking but you.  No exclamation points used.   Not sure why you are jumping to conclusions. 

I see you are fine with your racist ways.    

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Desertrat56
15 minutes ago, Myles said:

It did not seem to be directed at Chauvin only, but at people on this message board.   

I've never been a fan of people throwing the racist accusation all over the place.   It's so watered down now.   

 

I understood what you meant.   There are too many people buying the propaganda being peddled and some of them are on this forum (some even raving...)

I just don't think it is useful to use the "left"/"right" labels as often they are misleading or actually used to denigrate someone's opinion.   

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Myles
2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Look i edited the other post that got you so unhinged, and you freak out that you think i suggested you are a racist and you rebuke that by calling me a racist, is that some type of "i know you are but what am i" tactic you use?

Are you having a bad day? You are taking my babbling way too serious, i think some replies sound motivated by racism, so what?

You clearly pointed to me with this post.    So you are calling me racist.  For no reason I should add.

"

if you can read replies on here and not pick out the racists thats fine but heres a clue

They are the first to jump with left this left that when a comment like i made was posted."

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Desertrat56
10 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Claim down, Dont make up stuff, here is what i said....

Imnsho i read posts on here that sound motivated by racism, its just my opinion you need not agree but try not to have some manic unhinged meltdown over my opinion, you are making it deem like it hit a raw nerve.

So i will change that to "some replies here sound motivated by racism" better?

 

If this is about his freak out over what i posted i never suggested chauvin was a racist, i dont know what the man is or isnt.

I don't know what he was referring to, I just wanted his definition of "left".

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the13bats
6 minutes ago, Myles said:

No one freaking but you.  No exclamation points used.   Not sure why you are jumping to conclusions. 

I see you are fine with your racist ways.    

Guy, you didnt need to use exclamation points to show how unglued you are over this, so you get upset thinking i called you racist to you start calling me a racist, are you okay?

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the13bats
9 minutes ago, Myles said:

You clearly pointed to me with this post.    So you are calling me racist.  For no reason I should add.

"

if you can read replies on here and not pick out the racists thats fine but heres a clue

They are the first to jump with left this left that when a comment like i made was posted."

Read into it as you wish, here ill let you in on something, you bet i read posts on here and think the person is motavated by bigotry, i do not recall ever reading a post of yours and thinking that but you are going at me in some unhinged meltdown i cant keep up with your ranting, i really do not care what you think, is that acceptable?

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