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WVK

Archaeoacoustics: Wupatki Ballcourt

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WVK

A conversation with someone standing on the opposite end will sound like they are next to you . A very noticeable effect in spite of the noise created by maybe 15 other people milling around

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Wupatki_Ruins_Ball_Court.jpg

I spoke to a park ranger who was aware of the effect. This was 20 plus years ago

https://www.nps.gov/articles/wupatki.htm

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WVK
19 minutes ago, WVK said:

A conversation with someone standing on the opposite end will sound like they are next to you . A very noticeable effect in spite of the noise created by maybe 15 other people milling around

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Wupatki_Ruins_Ball_Court.jpg

I spoke to a park ranger who was aware of the effect. This was 20 plus years ago

https://www.nps.gov/articles/wupatki.htm

Imagine a moonlit ceremony The High Priest in full regalia at one end, the initiate at the other

Having the voice of  God can be useful!  .

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WVK
On 10/23/2020 at 10:11 AM, WVK said:

A conversation with someone standing on the opposite end will sound like they are next to you . A very noticeable effect in spite of the noise created by maybe 15 other people milling around

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Wupatki_Ruins_Ball_Court.jpg

 

This type of acoustic effect can be experienced inside the Great Ball court. There the sound is focused by angling off the walls in GBC. 

https://www.acusticaweb.com/acustica-arquitectonica/blog/acca-arquitecta/artlo-especial-sobre-la-acca-de-chichen-itz.html

additional acoustic phenomena  can be experienced due to the flat parallel walls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX_dyirChQY&ab_channel=JenLamptonThe acoustic phonomona at Wupatki

OTOH Wupatki  seems to use the curved walls to channel the sound  like a typical whispering gallery

A whispering gallery is usually a circular, hemispherical, elliptical or ellipsoidal enclosure, often beneath a dome or a vault, in which whispers can be heard clearly in other parts of the gallery. Such galleries can also be set up using two parabolic dishes. Sometimes the phenomenon is detected in caves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering_gallery

Two different technologies to achieve a similar result.  

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jaylemurph

Stop trying to make fetch... uh, archeoaucostics a thing. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Hanslune
2 hours ago, WVK said:

The exciting discovery that sound bounces of stone walls is well, extraordinary isn't it?  As noted before echos exist in ALL ancient stone built structures; the questions remain were they intentional? Do the degraded and heavily repaired structures reflect the reality of the time they were built  (like no dampening wooden roof at the Temple of Warriors) ?

So WVK do the Roman sources mention building in a way to cause echos? You might want to check: Vitruvius and his  De architectura, libri decem 'The Ten Books on Architecture'

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WVK
19 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

  Do the degraded and heavily repaired structures reflect the reality of the time they were built  (like no dampening wooden roof at the Temple of Warriors) ?

What are the odds that the quetzal/rattlesnake (Quetzalcoatl) response is the result of "degraded and heavily repaired structures condition"

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Hanslune
9 hours ago, WVK said:

What are the odds that the quetzal/rattlesnake (Quetzalcoatl) response is the result of "degraded and heavily repaired structures condition"

Don't know - do you know?  Is that the only case in the entire world? Not to my knowledge why focus on only one?

You need to do a full investigation not start with the conclusion.

Which are the structures that are not degraded or repaired - do you know? Do you care?

So WVK again consult  the Roman sources mention building in a way to cause echos? You might want to check: Vitruvius and his  De architectura, libri decem 'The Ten Books on Architecture'. The Chinese might also have commented.

Edited by Hanslune
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WVK
12 hours ago, Hanslune said:

 

Which are the structures that are not degraded or repaired - do you know? Do you care?

 

The unrestored staircase of El Castillo echos quetzal but not as robustly as the restored staircases

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Thanos5150
22 hours ago, Hanslune said:

So WVK do the Roman sources mention building in a way to cause echos? You might want to check: Vitruvius and his  De architectura, libri decem 'The Ten Books on Architecture'

Yeah, I don't think the Romans knew very much about acoustics:

5441880755_a8ca9cd47a_z.jpg

1200px-Roman_theater_of_Amman_01.jpg

How Did the Roman Theatres Sound?

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WVK
12 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Don't know - do you know?  Is that the only case in the entire world? Not to my knowledge why focus on only one?

It's the only one that,.as far as I know,, that reports with a quetzal/rattlesnake sound. These two sounds can be produced from a handclap facing the  wide staircase that is topped by two carved pillars representing Kukulcan--serpent heads with their mouths open and their stone bodies and rattles shooting skyward 

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Hanslune
24 minutes ago, WVK said:

The unrestored staircase of El Castillo echos quetzal but not as robustly as the restored staircases

Nice comment, link to the evidence that supports that?

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WVK
Just now, Hanslune said:

Nice comment, link to the evidence that supports that?

I witnessed it with David Lubman in 2001, it was there then

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Hanslune
1 minute ago, WVK said:

It's the only one that,.as far as I know,, that reports with a quetzal/rattlesnake sound. These two sounds can be produced from a handclap facing the  wide staircase that is topped by two carved pillars representing Kukulcan--serpent heads with their mouths open and their stone bodies and rattles shooting skyward 

Sorry but I don't recall what we discussed on this earlier.

One of my first archaeological duties was to help clear ruins in an around Merida in Yucatan. Visited a lot of other sites to see how they were restoring the temples. The Mexican government of the time was into reconstruction to draw in tourists as Mexico's economy was a disaster in the 70 and much of Yucatan had still not recovered from the century long Caste Wars.

1543258342950.jpg

1543258362380.jpg

That particular pyramid was damaged and repaired early on - the Spanish and later Mexican army also used it as a fortification at one time. Now did the Maya come across an interesting echo and replicate it,  yep they may have,  they were devilishly clever builders. The only problem is what we hearing now is what they intended? You'll get an echo off most stone steps.

 

 

 

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Hanslune
8 minutes ago, WVK said:

Good example of what the ancients knew - they certainly learned how to build theaters that reflected actor's voices well. I've attended performances at several renovated Greek/Roman theaters and the acoustics are quite amazing. However, echo and being able to hear whispers etc, can be found in most cathedrals, mosques and temples , Hindo and Shinto, were those planned?  Don't know.

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Hanslune
10 minutes ago, WVK said:

I witnessed it with David Lubman in 2001, it was there then

Study, research, data any thing beyond hear say? I believe you did hear it but I believe others had studied it somewhat more vigorously?

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WVK
Just now, Hanslune said:

 I believe you did hear it but I believe others had studied it somewhat more vigorously?

Do they use a more vigorous handclap when they test the unrestored staircase for quetzal chirps? 

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Hanslune
7 minutes ago, WVK said:

Do they use a more vigorous handclap when they test the unrestored staircase for quetzal chirps? 

You seem to be avoiding providing evidence. Okay bye.

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Thanos5150
27 minutes ago, WVK said:

I just linked a paper to the Romans, so you could know something if you so choose.

Your click bait headline source regarding the Greeks, of course the origin of Roman theatres etc, is misleading as it is the myth that in effect a pin can be heard dropping or a whisper can be heard in every seat, not that these theatres do not have great acoustical properties.

Give this one a try:

Mystery of Greek Amphitheater's Amazing Sound Finally Solved

Unraveling the Acoustics of Ancient Amphitheaters.

  

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WVK
11 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

they were devilishly clever builders. The only problem is what we hearing now is what they intended? You'll get an echo off most stone steps.

How could the the acoustics of the Great Ballcourt  be accidental?

https://www.acusticaweb.com/acustica-arquitectonica/blog/acca-arquitecta/artlo-especial-sobre-la-acca-de-chichen-itz.html

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WVK
Just now, Thanos5150 said:

 

Just now, Thanos5150 said:

I just linked a paper to the Romans, so you could know something if you so choose.

Your click bait headline source regarding the Greeks, of course the origin of Roman theatres etc, is misleading as it is the myth that in effect a pin can be heard dropping or a whisper can be heard in every seat, not that these theatres do not have great acoustical properties.

Give this one a try:

Mystery of Greek Amphitheater's Amazing Sound Finally Solved

Unraveling the Acoustics of Ancient Amphitheaters.

  

I 'm familiar with that. Declercq (the author) discovered the raindrop in a bucket sound from footsteps at  El Castillo Chichen Itza

Interestingly there is a Chac mask (Mayan rain deity) carved in the stone at the top of the stairs

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WVK
21 hours ago, WVK said:

Interestingly there is a Chac mask (Mayan rain deity) carved in the stone at the top of the stairs

The raindrop sound is presented here:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a7d2/8e9f306cb809ca97ae82544822ccc3338825.pdf

It was Nico described (to me) the colonnade, (Temple of the Warrior's) a form of sonic crystal. This one produces a rattlesnake sound, a long :ZZZzzzzz. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_metamaterial

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