WVK Posted October 23, 2020 #1 Share Posted October 23, 2020 A conversation with someone standing on the opposite end will sound like they are next to you . A very noticeable effect in spite of the noise created by maybe 15 other people milling around https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Wupatki_Ruins_Ball_Court.jpg I spoke to a park ranger who was aware of the effect. This was 20 plus years ago https://www.nps.gov/articles/wupatki.htm 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 23, 2020 Author #2 Share Posted October 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, WVK said: A conversation with someone standing on the opposite end will sound like they are next to you . A very noticeable effect in spite of the noise created by maybe 15 other people milling around https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Wupatki_Ruins_Ball_Court.jpg I spoke to a park ranger who was aware of the effect. This was 20 plus years ago https://www.nps.gov/articles/wupatki.htm Imagine a moonlit ceremony The High Priest in full regalia at one end, the initiate at the other Having the voice of God can be useful! . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 27, 2020 Author #3 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 10/23/2020 at 10:11 AM, WVK said: A conversation with someone standing on the opposite end will sound like they are next to you . A very noticeable effect in spite of the noise created by maybe 15 other people milling around https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Wupatki_Ruins_Ball_Court.jpg This type of acoustic effect can be experienced inside the Great Ball court. There the sound is focused by angling off the walls in GBC. https://www.acusticaweb.com/acustica-arquitectonica/blog/acca-arquitecta/artlo-especial-sobre-la-acca-de-chichen-itz.html additional acoustic phenomena can be experienced due to the flat parallel walls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX_dyirChQY&ab_channel=JenLamptonThe acoustic phonomona at Wupatki OTOH Wupatki seems to use the curved walls to channel the sound like a typical whispering gallery A whispering gallery is usually a circular, hemispherical, elliptical or ellipsoidal enclosure, often beneath a dome or a vault, in which whispers can be heard clearly in other parts of the gallery. Such galleries can also be set up using two parabolic dishes. Sometimes the phenomenon is detected in caves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering_gallery Two different technologies to achieve a similar result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted October 27, 2020 #4 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Stop trying to make fetch... uh, archeoaucostics a thing. —Jaylemurph 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 28, 2020 Author #5 Share Posted October 28, 2020 19 hours ago, jaylemurph said: Stop trying to make fetch... uh, archeoaucostics a thing. —Jaylemurph Why would I? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241489337_The_accidental_acoustical_tourist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 28, 2020 #6 Share Posted October 28, 2020 2 hours ago, WVK said: Why would I? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241489337_The_accidental_acoustical_tourist The exciting discovery that sound bounces of stone walls is well, extraordinary isn't it? As noted before echos exist in ALL ancient stone built structures; the questions remain were they intentional? Do the degraded and heavily repaired structures reflect the reality of the time they were built (like no dampening wooden roof at the Temple of Warriors) ? So WVK do the Roman sources mention building in a way to cause echos? You might want to check: Vitruvius and his De architectura, libri decem 'The Ten Books on Architecture' 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 28, 2020 Author #7 Share Posted October 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, Hanslune said: Do the degraded and heavily repaired structures reflect the reality of the time they were built (like no dampening wooden roof at the Temple of Warriors) ? What are the odds that the quetzal/rattlesnake (Quetzalcoatl) response is the result of "degraded and heavily repaired structures condition" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 29, 2020 #8 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, WVK said: What are the odds that the quetzal/rattlesnake (Quetzalcoatl) response is the result of "degraded and heavily repaired structures condition" Don't know - do you know? Is that the only case in the entire world? Not to my knowledge why focus on only one? You need to do a full investigation not start with the conclusion. Which are the structures that are not degraded or repaired - do you know? Do you care? So WVK again consult the Roman sources mention building in a way to cause echos? You might want to check: Vitruvius and his De architectura, libri decem 'The Ten Books on Architecture'. The Chinese might also have commented. Edited October 29, 2020 by Hanslune 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #9 Share Posted October 29, 2020 12 hours ago, Hanslune said: Which are the structures that are not degraded or repaired - do you know? Do you care? The unrestored staircase of El Castillo echos quetzal but not as robustly as the restored staircases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos5150 Posted October 29, 2020 #10 Share Posted October 29, 2020 22 hours ago, Hanslune said: So WVK do the Roman sources mention building in a way to cause echos? You might want to check: Vitruvius and his De architectura, libri decem 'The Ten Books on Architecture' Yeah, I don't think the Romans knew very much about acoustics: How Did the Roman Theatres Sound? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #11 Share Posted October 29, 2020 12 hours ago, Hanslune said: Don't know - do you know? Is that the only case in the entire world? Not to my knowledge why focus on only one? It's the only one that,.as far as I know,, that reports with a quetzal/rattlesnake sound. These two sounds can be produced from a handclap facing the wide staircase that is topped by two carved pillars representing Kukulcan--serpent heads with their mouths open and their stone bodies and rattles shooting skyward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 29, 2020 #12 Share Posted October 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, WVK said: The unrestored staircase of El Castillo echos quetzal but not as robustly as the restored staircases Nice comment, link to the evidence that supports that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #13 Share Posted October 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said: Yeah, I don't think the Romans knew very much about acoustics: How Did the Roman Theatres Sound? Don't know about the Roman but the Greek theaters: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/16/whisper-it-greek-amphitheatre-legendary-acoustics-myth-epidaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #14 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Just now, Hanslune said: Nice comment, link to the evidence that supports that? I witnessed it with David Lubman in 2001, it was there then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 29, 2020 #15 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 minute ago, WVK said: It's the only one that,.as far as I know,, that reports with a quetzal/rattlesnake sound. These two sounds can be produced from a handclap facing the wide staircase that is topped by two carved pillars representing Kukulcan--serpent heads with their mouths open and their stone bodies and rattles shooting skyward Sorry but I don't recall what we discussed on this earlier. One of my first archaeological duties was to help clear ruins in an around Merida in Yucatan. Visited a lot of other sites to see how they were restoring the temples. The Mexican government of the time was into reconstruction to draw in tourists as Mexico's economy was a disaster in the 70 and much of Yucatan had still not recovered from the century long Caste Wars. That particular pyramid was damaged and repaired early on - the Spanish and later Mexican army also used it as a fortification at one time. Now did the Maya come across an interesting echo and replicate it, yep they may have, they were devilishly clever builders. The only problem is what we hearing now is what they intended? You'll get an echo off most stone steps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 29, 2020 #16 Share Posted October 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, WVK said: Don't know about the Roman but the Greek theaters: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/16/whisper-it-greek-amphitheatre-legendary-acoustics-myth-epidaurus Good example of what the ancients knew - they certainly learned how to build theaters that reflected actor's voices well. I've attended performances at several renovated Greek/Roman theaters and the acoustics are quite amazing. However, echo and being able to hear whispers etc, can be found in most cathedrals, mosques and temples , Hindo and Shinto, were those planned? Don't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 29, 2020 #17 Share Posted October 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, WVK said: I witnessed it with David Lubman in 2001, it was there then Study, research, data any thing beyond hear say? I believe you did hear it but I believe others had studied it somewhat more vigorously? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #18 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Just now, Hanslune said: I believe you did hear it but I believe others had studied it somewhat more vigorously? Do they use a more vigorous handclap when they test the unrestored staircase for quetzal chirps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted October 29, 2020 #19 Share Posted October 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, WVK said: Do they use a more vigorous handclap when they test the unrestored staircase for quetzal chirps? You seem to be avoiding providing evidence. Okay bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos5150 Posted October 29, 2020 #20 Share Posted October 29, 2020 27 minutes ago, WVK said: Don't know about the Roman but the Greek theaters: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/16/whisper-it-greek-amphitheatre-legendary-acoustics-myth-epidaurus I just linked a paper to the Romans, so you could know something if you so choose. Your click bait headline source regarding the Greeks, of course the origin of Roman theatres etc, is misleading as it is the myth that in effect a pin can be heard dropping or a whisper can be heard in every seat, not that these theatres do not have great acoustical properties. Give this one a try: Mystery of Greek Amphitheater's Amazing Sound Finally Solved Unraveling the Acoustics of Ancient Amphitheaters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #21 Share Posted October 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hanslune said: they were devilishly clever builders. The only problem is what we hearing now is what they intended? You'll get an echo off most stone steps. How could the the acoustics of the Great Ballcourt be accidental? https://www.acusticaweb.com/acustica-arquitectonica/blog/acca-arquitecta/artlo-especial-sobre-la-acca-de-chichen-itz.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 29, 2020 Author #22 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Just now, Thanos5150 said: Mystery of Greek Amphitheater's Amazing Sound Finally Solved U Just now, Thanos5150 said: I just linked a paper to the Romans, so you could know something if you so choose. Your click bait headline source regarding the Greeks, of course the origin of Roman theatres etc, is misleading as it is the myth that in effect a pin can be heard dropping or a whisper can be heard in every seat, not that these theatres do not have great acoustical properties. Give this one a try: Mystery of Greek Amphitheater's Amazing Sound Finally Solved Unraveling the Acoustics of Ancient Amphitheaters. I 'm familiar with that. Declercq (the author) discovered the raindrop in a bucket sound from footsteps at El Castillo Chichen Itza Interestingly there is a Chac mask (Mayan rain deity) carved in the stone at the top of the stairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted October 30, 2020 Author #23 Share Posted October 30, 2020 21 hours ago, WVK said: Interestingly there is a Chac mask (Mayan rain deity) carved in the stone at the top of the stairs The raindrop sound is presented here: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a7d2/8e9f306cb809ca97ae82544822ccc3338825.pdf It was Nico described (to me) the colonnade, (Temple of the Warrior's) a form of sonic crystal. This one produces a rattlesnake sound, a long :ZZZzzzzz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_metamaterial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVK Posted December 9, 2020 Author #24 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Regarding quetzal chirp sound from steps of El Castillo, Chichen Itza. There is a steep staircase located in the side wall of the Acropolis, El Balam' A handclap produces a robust quetzal-like chirp in spite of some damage to the steps. In the past it was argued that the chirp at Chichen could be incidental, the result of steep staircase geometric requirement for the pyramid shape. This does not seem to the case here. If not for the quetzal sound why so steep? https://i.imgur.com/StE9pGd.jpg WVK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted December 9, 2020 #25 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) (https://i.imgur.com/StE9pGd.jpg) Edited December 9, 2020 by acute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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