Biden's student loan relief plan

[skliss]

3 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Canada watches the US carefully. If you implement a plan that works, we will copy it and make it better. Canadians are a cautious lot. We like ti see things in action before we invest in it.

Why should we have be responsible for what you do? Figure out your own stuff!

Not gonna live our lives by your expectations...pfffftttt!

[spartan max2]

 

I will point out a part of Biden's plan that I did like on education was capping loan monthly repayment cost at 5 percent of your income and then forgiveness after 2 decades of payments.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/16/919203532/trumps-and-biden-s-plans-for-education

Now I know it would be reasonable for someone to say "well Spartan, why is forgiveness after two decades different then just forgiving the loans. Or Biden's 10k a year for each one year of public/non profit employment maxed at 5 years thread OP proposal?"

To which I would answer that after two decades of repayments you probably paid the loan back, the stuff being "forgiven" at that point is most likely just stupid interest accural and I really could care less if people paid interest on the student loans. Plus keeping repayment at 5 percent of income makes it so payments don't drown anybody.

Edited October 26, 2020 by spartan max2

[Hankenhunter]

51 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

You lost me...

Do only home owners pay taxes?

What I'm saying is I would rather pay off my loans then have a lifelong tax. I did community college the first two years and paid some of my loans as I went.

It's no investment to me to establish a tax to pay for people who chose to go to expensive schools simply because they wanted to.

We'll never know what you would have accomplished if your education would have been completely paid for before you graduated. How much farther ahead you would have been. Dwell on it for a few minutes.

[Hankenhunter]

6 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

 

I will point out a part of Biden's plan that I did like on education was capping loan monthly repayment cost at 5 percent of your income and then forgiveness after 2 decades of payments.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/16/919203532/trumps-and-biden-s-plans-for-education

Now I know it would be reasonable for someone to say "well Spartan, why is forgiveness after two decades different then just forgiving the loans. Or Biden's 10k a year for each one year of public/non profit employment maxed at 5 years thread OP proposal?"

To which I would answer that after two decades of repayments you probably paid the loan back, the stuff being "forgiven" at that point is most likely just stupid interest accural and I really could care less if people paid interest on the student loans. Plus keeping repayment at 5 percent of income makes it so payments don't drown anybody.

Anythings better than the status quo. Well said.

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

? I'm a little skeptical of that claim.

People have credit card debt and medical debt for a lifetime without going to jail. Debtor jail isn't suppose to be legal anymore.

 

https://www-bankrate-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/can-you-go-to-jail-for-debt/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=16037515777726&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bankrate.com%2Ffinance%2Fcredit-cards%2Fcan-you-go-to-jail-for-debt%2F

It does happen.  https://studentloanhero.com/blog/can-you-be-arrested-for-not-paying-student-loans/

Basically, if the loan gets sent to a collection agency (who then nags you) AND you get sued by the agency (this happens lots, because that's how they get some of their money) AND you don't show up at court, they can ask a judge to do a bench warrant for your arrest ("Failure to appear.")

And that can get expensive and that can get you jail time.

[Kenemet]

59 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That's a good point.  the banker that my daughter went to a year ago told her because of her student loan and the low salary she has she would never qualify for a mortgage.  He said it is very common.  Someone is convinced to get a college degree to make their life better but the degree does nothing to get them into a better job.  The job she has now that she got because of her degree pays one dollar an hour more than the one she had at the hospital, and she has to pay for health insurance where she did not before.  Her take home pay is less for the same hours.

Even computer science degrees are not going to help much because there are always 50 people qualified for one job.  Unless you have experience (meaning you got your degree in the 80's like I did) you are not going to find many well paying jobs.  Nursing and health care might be the way to go and a lot of those jobs require technical school, not college.

Actually, if you want a decent salary in the nursing field or medical field you need that degree.  The jobs with the technical school background are faster to find, but they're basically grunt-type work.

Catch-22.  If you got for a RA/PA/MD/DO degree (where there's autonomy and money) the debt piles up like crazy unless you've got a way of paying as you go.

Today's situation is VERY different from the 80's and 60's (etc) 

If education was more affordable (and yes, that would mean better government support and stripping away a lot of high administrative salaries) and less "for profit" there would be more of a chance for people to enter professions that they prefer instead of "making do."  If we could change the way society thinks of education (more like Germany does it) then trade schools would be part of our system as well and you could qualify for that as you do for college.  Here in America, it's hit or miss and some of those trade schools are real rip-offs.

We could learn from the mistakes and successes of other countries.

[+OverSword]

22 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Working your community is a do nothing job? Wow. Elitist much? If you cant see the benefits, I pity you.

The law of economics shows that when a job is worth creating it is created, filled and provides.  So they will either have to take already existing necessary jobs away from people already doing them or create unnecessary jobs that will cost us $10k per person, which is millions of people.   Since they won't be taking jobs away from people they will have to do the latter and create unnecessary jobs.  It's a stupid idea.

[spartan max2]

7 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Actually, if you want a decent salary in the nursing field or medical field you need that degree.  The jobs with the technical school background are faster to find, but they're basically grunt-type work.

Catch-22.  If you got for a RA/PA/MD/DO degree (where there's autonomy and money) the debt piles up like crazy unless you've got a way of paying as you go.

Today's situation is VERY different from the 80's and 60's (etc) 

If education was more affordable (and yes, that would mean better government support and stripping away a lot of high administrative salaries) and less "for profit" there would be more of a chance for people to enter professions that they prefer instead of "making do."  If we could change the way society thinks of education (more like Germany does it) then trade schools would be part of our system as well and you could qualify for that as you do for college.  Here in America, it's hit or miss and some of those trade schools are real rip-offs.

We could learn from the mistakes and successes of other countries.

Sure, but in Germany 50 percent of your income goes to taxes (not an exaggeration, I looked it up again before posting)

I would rather keep my 28 percent of income being taken by taxes and just pay my loans off myself.

[Hankenhunter]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

The law of economics shows that when a job is worth creating it is created, filled and provides.  So they will either have to take already existing necessary jobs away from people already doing them or create unnecessary jobs that will cost us $10k per person, which is millions of people.   Since they won't be taking jobs away from people they will have to do the latter and create unnecessary jobs.  It's a stupid idea.

Like, that's just your opinion, man. New jobs are created all the time. There's nothing wrong with serving your community while your in school. There are a huge amount of jobs that just don't get done due to lack of funds. Especially on the municipal level. Try again.

[Hankenhunter]

3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Sure, but in Germany 50 percent of your income goes to taxes (not an exaggeration, I looked it up again before posting)

I would rather keep my 28 percent of income being taken by taxes and just pay my loans off myself.

After an overly long time frame?

Edited October 26, 2020 by Hankenhunter

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

After an overly long time frame?

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking?

[Hankenhunter]

8 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking?

How long did it take to pay off your loans compared to how much more you would have accomplished without being in debt for years. Sorry for being obtuse. My mind is cluttered today. We've had a bit of a Covid outbreak here, and people are a bit...tense. Im also waiting for word about my son's covid test. He's pretty sick right now.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Hankenhunter

[Hankenhunter]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:08 PM, spartan max2 said:

Primary care physicians already get 50k in loan forgiveness when they work in an "underserved" area for 2 years.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/medical-school-loan-forgiveness-programs#:~:text=In addition to state-based,a Health Professional Shortage Area.Q

I knew this off the top of my head because the clients I work with on Medicaid lose their primary care doctor every 2 years.

So if it works for doctors, why not everyone else?

[Hankenhunter]

If you join the military to get your education, you have to serve your hitch before you get your higher education, yes? How is that different from serving your community for the same thing? 

[Kenemet]

49 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Sure, but in Germany 50 percent of your income goes to taxes (not an exaggeration, I looked it up again before posting)

I would rather keep my 28 percent of income being taken by taxes and just pay my loans off myself.

Perhaps you've not read much about taxation in Germany.  As you can see from Wikipedia, single people don't get charged maximum tax until they hit about $100k/year:

Quote

Note that Wikipedia figures here are EU, not US$
The rate of income tax in Germany ranges from 0% to 45%. The German income tax is a progressive tax, which means that the average tax rate (i.e., the ratio of tax and taxable income) increases monotonically with increasing taxable income. Moreover, the German taxation system warrants that an increase in taxable income never results in a decrease of the net income after taxation. The latter property is due to the fact that the marginal tax rate (i.e., the tax paid on one euro additional taxable income) is always below 100%.

That amount also goes to free hospital care, good street and infrastructure maintenance, free education, social security. In addition, part of your income is sheltered from taxation.

So you actually end up paying more under the US system and you get less for it.

[spartan max2]

24 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Perhaps you've not read much about taxation in Germany.  As you can see from Wikipedia, single people don't get charged maximum tax until they hit about $100k/year:

That amount also goes to free hospital care, good street and infrastructure maintenance, free education, social security. In addition, part of your income is sheltered from taxation.

So you actually end up paying more under the US system and you get less for it.

You're just talking about the federal income tax. I was talking about all the taxes. Ends up with about 50 percent of your paycheck being gone. 

Also the 42 percent income tax is most of the middle class at anyone above 55,960 euros. The max rate is 45 percent. 

 

Here is a breakdown 

https://www.taxback.com/blog/your-bullsht-free-guide-to-taxes-in-germany#:~:text=Income tax in Germany is,above €55%2C960 for 2019.&text=As well as income tax,at 5.5% of income tax.

 

Obviously a lot of people here think the high taxes are worth it for the benefits. I personally do not. 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by spartan max2

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, OverSword said:

Nobody talking about an American is referring to a Canadian or a Mexican. 

Yeah, I know, and that bugs me.  The funniest line in a BBC show I watched was a crime show where a hospital tech was witness to a murder and the cops asked him what part of America he was from and he said "Canada".   You all can't even tell by the accent. 

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Actually, if you want a decent salary in the nursing field or medical field you need that degree.  The jobs with the technical school background are faster to find, but they're basically grunt-type work.

Catch-22.  If you got for a RA/PA/MD/DO degree (where there's autonomy and money) the debt piles up like crazy unless you've got a way of paying as you go.

Today's situation is VERY different from the 80's and 60's (etc) 

If education was more affordable (and yes, that would mean better government support and stripping away a lot of high administrative salaries) and less "for profit" there would be more of a chance for people to enter professions that they prefer instead of "making do."  If we could change the way society thinks of education (more like Germany does it) then trade schools would be part of our system as well and you could qualify for that as you do for college.  Here in America, it's hit or miss and some of those trade schools are real rip-offs.

We could learn from the mistakes and successes of other countries.

I agree with that.  When I was in Germany there was one practice I felt would not work in the U,.S. though.  Students were tested (don't know if this is still true) in the 9th grade and based on that test determined what further education they could get.  Ninth grade is 14 or 15 when people's brains are still forming and hormones are running rampant.  Some test you took at that age should not determine what career you end up in or whether you get a career or not.

[+OverSword]

14 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

There are a huge amount of jobs that just don't get done due to lack of funds

Not where I live.

[+OverSword]

16 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

After an overly long time frame?

WTF are you talking about.  If I had a $10k debt I could reign in my behavior and pay it in under a year.

[+OverSword]

15 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

How long did it take to pay off your loans compared to how much more you would have accomplished without being in debt for years.

It depends on how willing you are to make sacrifices to pay off your debt.  If you are stupid enough to want to simply pay the interest then stay in debt the rest of your life.  that's got nothing to do with me.  If you are conscientious then buy a cheap car, rent a cheap apartment, budget your money, make a plan and pay your debt.  In a couple of years things get better. Sorry we can't all have everything right now this is real life.

[+OverSword]

15 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

If you join the military to get your education, you have to serve your hitch before you get your higher education, yes? How is that different from serving your community for the same thing? 

Fine.  Go join the military or become a doctor.